No way. Alton Sterling hated guns. He would never have been anywhere near a gun. </sarc>
Posted on 07/13/2016 8:32:52 AM PDT by rktman
Officers were justified in their shooting of Alton Sterling during a confrontation in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, according to a police report on the incident. That shooting resulted in Sterling's death, which alongside the police-involved shooting of Philando Castile near St. Paul, Minnesota, triggered nationwide protests. From CNN:
In a search warrant affidavit seeking surveillance video from the store, [where police responded to a call about a man threatening another man with a gun,] Detective R. Cook wrote that the Baton Rouge officers deployed their Tasers after Sterling did not comply with their orders.
"While the officers were attempting to subdue the subject the officers observed the butt of a gun in the subject's front pants pocket," Cook wrote.
"When the subject attempted to reach for the gun from his pockets the officers fired their police issued duty weapon at the subject to stop the threat. The subject was shot multiple times and did not survive his injuries."
In recent days, the anti-cop crowd has has called for police officers to be trained in non-lethal deescalation techniques, whatever those are. Shooting a bad guy who reaches for a gun is the best deescalation technique known. It has the virtue of proving non-lethal to those tasked with protecting the public.
(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...
No way. Alton Sterling hated guns. He would never have been anywhere near a gun. </sarc>
I believe this photo has been shown not to be Alton Sterling.
Not Sterling?
My bad. Thanks for the heads up.
He deserved a bullet for that picture.
What’s up with tazers? This is not the first time I’ve read of a situation where tazing a suspect was ineffective. If they cannot be relied upon to do what they are intended to do, why not come up with some other, more effective tactic?
FWIW I read elsewhere that Sterling was arrested for exactly the same thing back in 2011, sentenced to 5 years in prison, and got out in 2013.
It’s Deja Vu All Over Again
What did Phil Castile do? Aside from reach for his wallet?
At the very least, it seems a significant portion of the black community believe that resisting arrest is an entitlement.
The officer thought he was pulling over an armed robbery suspect. He probably thought he was reaching for something else.
I always keep my hands in view and if I need to get my wallet, I tell them what I’m doing before reaching for it.
Is it even possible to reverse the failed culture shown in this picture?
How can anyone rationally expect me to accept what is symbolized in the picture as somehow acceptable? Handing your children guns to play ‘thug’ and referring to them as your N=word or whore?
He was reaching for his gun, not his wallet.
You don’t know that.
I don’t know that.
We’ve not, as of yet, even heard the officer testify to that.
I thought about your speculation (sarcasm or otherwise I am not sure - see it often here) about cops lying while I did some chores and I would like to humbly respond without ascribing any motive to you specifically -
The problem with video is that it rarely shows the whole story or provides a view of everything. The rush to judgment is based on an incomplete (at best) or false (at worst - see Ferguson) narrative that fits an agenda and drives ratings and the mob is off and running. I used a video camera/recorder as a cop and it rarely captured everything because it was real life - not a made for television show with many takes, perfect audio, and perfect angles.
This problem with the “slice” of what we know about the Louisiana or Minnesota incident is not confined to the BLM movement either - we had several posters here on FR suggesting or even stating that the police executed the bikers in Waco after starting the riot themselves. Seriously - think about that for a second. When too few challenge this narrative you get a circle of confirmation bias that makes it easier for others to believe the false narrative. This has become far too common in our political discourse and it is only reasonable to recognize it on “our side” as we point it out on the other. It is what the left says about talk radio and the right says about academia.
When one has a set narrative in their mind they consciously or unconsciously see every event as confirmation of the narrative - facts be damned. It is human nature to do this (we all have bias of one sort or another), but it becomes dangerous when a mob is involved. It becomes especially dangerous when the most extreme among us (to include people with possible mental illness) act on their absolute belief - Dallas PD shooter being the most recent example of this. Many of the Jihadists and suicide bombers fit this narrative. It’s not confined only to the left either - Timothy McVeigh was the same thing with opposing politics. Some will act on the extreme.
There are many people who believe Bush pushed a button to implode the world trade center and killed thousands for some Machiavellian purpose. There are people (disappointingly more than few here) who believe the Navy shot down an airliner off the coast of New York. Some suggest this was incompetence with a cover-up and others believe it deliberate for political reasons or I even read a few posters say it was some kind of political trade with Iran. Perhaps conspiracy theories are more fun than Occam’s razor? There are people here who still believe that Homeland Security purchased 1800 mine resistant armored cars (that one even caused a congressional inquiry) and the government is buying all the ammo so the public won’t have access to it or they can impose martial law. The list goes on and on as we become ever more polarized on both sides. I have read all of this here on FR and I ask myself “Is this truth?”
Conservatism has always been based in reason and logic for me. Maybe I grew up in the Buckley brand, but his pragmatic approach to everything always appealed to me even if I am labeled a “boot licker” by some here for disagreeing with speculation. Regarding law enforcement - the topic here -I know that every critical incident I witnessed, investigated, or was involved with was thoroughly investigated based on gathered facts, evidence, and statements. It was then viewed within the framework of the law and not the cable news network spin, clickbait blog stories, idle speculation, rantings of the peanut gallery, and ratings driven coverage. I saw some that were racially charged, but only a short time ago the discourse was not so extreme.
The Burns Oregon standoff was fascinating for me (especially here on FR) because much of the narrative here (on the right) sounds just like the BLM narrative (on the left). Why do so few not recognize this or remain silent? Why do so few fail to recognize that our often referenced blogs by “conservative writers” may be just as guilty as Soros and his organization because these outlandish stories are written to generate revenue for the person who wrote them and site that posts them - truth be damned?
Are we all victimized by politics or has truth become the real victim? It is hard for any of - myself included - to trust any institution we have because the extreme events can define the whole institution (see Catholic church sex scandal - Hillary’s email scandal - TARP - list goes on).
Thinking back to my patrol days (in a largely African-American community) I might have been involved in a critical incident that hit the national news (instead of remaining local) and there would be millions of Americans who would be ready to judge me on nothing more than a headline “officer kills XXX.” They would presume me racist or trigger happy based on some internal narrative. Is that not intellectually a form of “racism”? There but for the Grace of God went I. It saddens me.
I never went into work wanting something bad to happen (even though it sometimes did) and certainly not wanting to kill another person - I just wanted to finish my shift, do the right thing, and come home to my family. I performed that role successfully for a long time, but that won’t matter to those who rush to snap judgments here and elsewhere. The thought that some would under certain narratives celebrate my death (even as I acted under the color of law) without knowing me or the facts because it somehow fit their narrative is a sad reflection of how unreasonable our discourse has become. We don’t trust anything anymore - why?
I do not want my son or daughters to go into law enforcement because we no longer give them the benefit of the doubt until a thorough investigation is completed. In some cities (see Baltimore) they might be charged for anything on their shift that plays to a selected narrative. If they go into public service of the blue collar kind I hope it is on a firetruck and not a patrol car.
I still believe that there are many “conservatives” here on this website who recognize this truth even as fewer challenge or respond to some of the outlandish stuff we read on here (yes, I read it here everyday). We can correctly point out the flawed logic of the BLM movement, but if we allow ourselves and/or the conservative discourse to follow the same path of distortion are we not just as guilty of perverting truth?
The discourse in our nation is very bad and getting worse from the President on down to the water cooler at work. I have realized that all I can do is my best every day to positively influence the immediate world around me, vote for my beliefs, pray for my kids and nations future, and hope for the best. There are some bad apples in every occupation (including law enforcement)and I have called out the few I saw. However, based on real experience and direct knowledge, I choose to believe the vast majority are decent people who sometimes find themselves in an indecent situation not of their choosing. They then find themselves as a pinball in the court of public opinion driven by the bumper on the right and the bumper on the left even as the media collects ratings, clicks, and ad revenue. It’s become theater.
Ferguson was frightening - all that hype - all the riots - all the written and spoken words about what that poor cop did or did not do and in the end we learned the “victim” was the real perpetrator - not the man who many still believe a murderer today. The physical evidence and witnesses said the cop was not legally guilty of a crime, but the narrative was cast in concrete just as it would be for many here if you had a different “victim.”
The rush by both sides (ours included) to try and label the perpetrator of some horrible act (as Tea Party, Muslim, Christian, or registered democrat) proves what I wrote above - we want things to fit our narrative. Life does not work like that. Recognizing this is being intellectually honest. Twisting any incident (what BLM is doing now and I think some did with the cattle ranchers who claimed grievance) to fit our own agenda is intellectual dishonesty and a nation can’t survive it.
“”It’s often been observed that the first casualty of war is the truth. But that’s a lie, too, in its way. The reality is that, for most wars to begin, the truth has to have been sacrificed a long time in advance.”” (credit to Neil Smith).
If we sacrifice truth we must live with what follows. We must guard against this at every turn and on every side. I felt compelled to write this because if we recognize the BLM movement for what it truly is - a distortion of truth to further an agenda - we MUST recognize the distortion everywhere we find it - including our “own side” of the aisle. It only leads down one path.
Hopefully this makes sense and while it’s not specific to the incident in Louisiana, it is something I have thought much about recently.
FRegards
Best I’ve heard, being high on some drugs can hasten the recovery time from a taze, which is a brief shock, not a continuous shock. It is similar to trying to taze a dog.
A continuous-taze system... maybe. It would be iffy. Though I sometimes have to say that chivalry has decayed over the years. This monstrous hate and rage is wrong, but so is the loss of first-responder chivalry.
Chivalry matters — matters intensely. For a couple of years I have been a contractor for a major US freight railroad company that I will not name because I don’t want to drag it into this conversation. One thing that truly impressed me about it, and maybe others who know it may be familiar with it, is that they make a policy of encouraging their field workers to assist at scenes of things like traffic accidents (that often do not even involve trains). The result is an almost incredible series of feel good stories that hit the internal company media — I see at least one a week. “Train crew rescues family trapped in car accident minutes before it burst into flames/sank in a lake” and the like. Increasing chivalry consciousness would do a whole lot for the field of actual professional first responders, is all I have to say.
Thank you for hearing me out.
“Redneck”
Maybe my #34, below, has some bearing on this issue.
(below where you are, above where this is)
The visible increase of political meddling from the left, which is almost always counterproductive, hasn’t helped with situations like the Waco biker debacle either. Are we seeing an attempt to do justice or are we seeing massive grandstanding at the expense of doubling down upon the most dubious accusations? Things like this sometimes do tend to “karmacise” if that is a word. Or, if you ask the devil to your dance, he will hang around afterwards beating on you to pay him off.
For myself I find myself supporting good cops (like in Dallas) yet I am not one of these people who thinks that all cops are always right and honest just beacuse they have a badge.
I grew up with two parents who were involved in drugs and I found out last night that my mother died of a probable drug overdose this past March. Law enforcement was a constant presence in my life until I moved away from my mother after I turned 18.
My childhood memories include no end of “random” traffic stops that involved deputies and police officers who knew us well. We had probably a dozen or more early morning wake-up calls by dozens of cops busting in the door at 3am to toss the house or apartment in search of drugs and not once...not even once...did I hear of or see a warrant.
My parents were totally wrong but it was abundantly clear to me that we were second class citizens who didn’t have any rights. That got even worse when my father was on parole and we had parole agents in the apartment at all hours of the day and they also would come to see me at school and search me to see if I was holding for my parents. That made school quite a fun time as the decent kids all avoided me.
I’ve been handcuffed so many times I lost count.
When my father went on a tear one time he assaulted me and when I called the police they treated me like a criminal. After he went to prison (where he has since died) we still had the parole agents showing up at all hours to rip the place apart and you know why?
Because they can.
It’s seven years that I put all that behind me but I’m still not going to automatically approve of what law enforcement does everywhere because I hear a lot of stories of abuse and I can relate from personal experience. I’m so used to law enforcement who abuse and lie that it’s been like PTSD for me to get used to the Park County, Wyoming sheriff’s department who have been absolutely wonderful people to me every time I encounter them.
With the thing in Waco I was one of the people who was suspicious of the police because 1) they arrested and charged way too many people and 2) they hid and are still hiding video evidence.
“If you didn’t do anything wrong you’ve got nothing to hide.”
Isn’t that what the cops always say?
Yet in North Carolina today there’s a new law that allows the police to keep their dash cam and body cam video forever secret from the public. Why do they want to hide their video if they’re doing nothing wrong?
And why, like in Baton Rouge, do they illegally seize video and video equipment without a warrant? What are they hiding?
I tell you, I wish I’d had video of all the times the cops messed with us when I was young because I’d be rich now.
So forgive me my point of view because it came from personal experience.
Both leads need to contact skin; sometimes clothing prevents it.
There is a lot of the “damn you for your own good” attitude floating around this country.
That’s understandable for worldly, secular peoples, but in a country that at least used to boast of being Christian, it’s a scandal. It’s almost like the worst of both worlds, or what C. S. Lewis called a well intentioned busybody. Enough Christian talk to raise the idea of do-gooding with the approval of one’s conscience; not enough of it to make it perfectly plain that nothing good can happen that hasn’t been laid on the Lord first.
I believe in the power of evangelism, done the right way.
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