F-15E Strike Eagles unable to shoot down the F-35s in 8 dogfights during simulated deployment

The Aviationist ^ | Jun 27 2016 | David Cenciotti

[pfflier]

why would you test air-to-air combat capabilities against an F-15 E Strike Eagle?....The “E” is not the fighter version of the F-15 ...the “”E” is the ground attack version of the F-15

I don't know where you got the impression that the F-15E can't take care of itself air-to-air.

An F-15E in capable hands is the third most lethal platform in A-A combat right behind the F-22 and F-15C. All the bad guys in the world know they will get their clocks cleaned in an engagement with a cleaned up F-15E.

[MeganC]

What you said. I suspect the F-15E pilots were under orders to lose the competition to the F-35 so the USAF brass would look good.

[PTBAA]

You can’t shoot it down if can’t take off.

[tophat9000]

don’t know where you got the impression that the F-15E can’t take care of itself air-to-air.

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I didn’t say that ....I said the F15E was was not optimized for air air combat its mission...its a ground attack aircraft

your words even speak to that ...You say it can “take care of itself”....correct ...it can defend itself ... that’s its mission get in attack ground targets and get out without being shot down... in air to air ...it’s always a defensive mission for it...it’s not an aggressor in aerial combat

F35 need to be able to defend itself against fighter out to shoot them down.... The F35 not going to be defending itself against other ground attack aircraft that can defend itself ..like an F15e

The difference is between an aircraft assigned to be on the offense against other aircraft in the air versus aircraft on defense in the air...

The F15e is carrying a lot of things that are virtually no use in the offensive air-to-air combat mission... it’s not an air superiority aircraft... it’s a ground attack aircraft that can defend itself and you don’t use it to attack other ground-attack aircraft.. and you sure as hell wouldn’t use an F15e to attack air superiority fighters...

[DCBryan1]

F-15SE (Silent Eagle)

FOX 1!

[Doc91678]

You’re right. the F-35 may be the best fighter available but that doesn’t mean that it can do the close ground air support and kill tanks like the A-10 can.

[pfflier]

Your comments imply that the Mudhen was designed solely as a ground attack fighter and is not a "real" A-A threat. If there is an optimal multi-role fighter, the F-15E fits the bill

In fact, a Clean F-15E is lighter, has more powerful engines and can sustain a higher turning G load than an F-15C. It carries the same A-A armament as an F-15C. The only real difference besides the second seat, is that the F-15E has permanently attached conformal fuel tanks and can carry more external ordnance.

Arguably, that second set of eyeballs is a great asset in A-A combat. I would sure as hell consider using it as an air superiority fighter if the mission demanded that.

[Revolutionary]

I may be prejudice, but the F-15E is a much better air-to-air fighter than the F-15C until it gets slow and tight.
My guess is that the “E” models got out “sticked”. The F-35s could get a radar lock and fire well before the F-15Es got their radar lock. There are tactics to compensate for the stealth aspect, but we don’t know whether these pilots were familiar with them or they were limited to 4th generation tactics. It is not a knock on the pilots/wso’s, the tactics are not widely known. We had some growing pains with the F-15Es and those had a proven aircraft to work from. So I understand the F-35 growing pains. If I were running the show, I would buy at least 50% F-35Cs. 35% more wing area is nothing to sneeze about (plus another 1,000 lbs of fuel).

[jjotto]

Good info. Thanks.

[Yo-Yo]

If you look at the 1.05 trillion dollar cost and that 167 have been built, that puts the cost of each one at 8 billion dollars or 1/2 the cost of an aircraft carrier. Even if they build 1000 of them, the cost would be 1.1 billion dollars each.

Where do you get your figures? We have spent way too much, but nowhere near 1.05 trillion Dollars on the F-35 program.

That figure north of 1 trillion Dollars is the estimated lifetime cost of operating and supporting a fleet of 2,500 F-35s for 50 years.

There are so many variables and assumptions in that 50 years to make the number meaningless. Inflation rates, fuel costs, service life extension program costs, all of it just WAGs.

The F-35 isn't cheap, it's very late and way over budget, and what sort of airplane we get in the end is unknown, but they aren't costing us 8 billion Dollars each.

[jjotto]

Unit cost is more like $110 million, which makes plenty of money for Lockheed-Martin.

[spetznaz]

The F-22 is the star of the airwar over Syria? What airwar, and if there is one wouldn’t it be such a low intensity affair that even a warmed-over F-104 Starfighter from the late 50s/early 60s would also be a ‘star?’