Posted on 12/04/2015 12:42:33 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
You wonder what would have happened if the Kennedys had spent as much time working to overthrow or assassinate Ho.
Ho had no fear off being overthrown. Kennedy and Johnson both decided to only fight a limited, defensive war avoiding the mass casualties of WWII and leaving the North off limits to invasion. A “Strategy for Defeat” as Admiral US Grant Sharpe titled it in his memoir.
The initiative and pace of the war was entirely up to Ho and Giap and they simply had to wait for us to tire of it.
Yeah, even Giap later said if we’d shut down the Ho Chi Minh Trail, war would have been over.
A large portion of the bombing that we did was against the Ho Chi Minh trail. But it was on/off on the orders of LBJ and MacNamara and I don’t think that bombing alone would ever have shut it down sufficiently. My opinion is that the only way to have won the war is to have used the strategy that worked in WWII. Invade, destroy their army in its home, occupy their cities and arrest their leaders.
I’d have to see a source on that. I had a student whose dad was stationed near HCM Trail and could see it with his naked eyes. Said they could have shot PAVNs all day, but were prohibited from shooting across the border.
” Said they could have shot PAVNs all day, but were prohibited from shooting across the border.”
Very likely. The Trail ran through Laos and Cambodia. If you are going to grant your enemy the freedom to resupply because he will cross a border and you won’t then you aren’t serious about winning the war. LBJ and McNamara weren’t serious about winning. They were content to send GIs into a war without the intention of bringing it to a victory.
“I’d have to see a source on that.”
Google ‘Operation Barrel Roll’ and ‘Operation Steel Tiger’.
Well thanks. I’d never heard of these. They appear to be extremely limited however, not just in # of sorties, “had to be returning from Rolling Thunder with unexpended munitions” but with the ROE on tanks, trucks. Overall, it sounds more like an air support campaign for the Hmong than a directed interdiction of the Ho Chi Minh trail.
“Although Operation Steel Tiger was started by the 2nd Air Division, on April 3, 1965, it was continued under the direction of the Seventh Air Force when that headquarters was created on 1 April 1966, and was concluded on November 11, 1968, with the initiation of Operation Commando Hunt. The purpose of Steel Tiger was to stop the flow of men and materiel on the enemy logistical routes collectively known as the Ho Chi Minh Trail, which was the Truong Son Strategic Supply Route to the North Vietnamese.
During 1965, 4,500 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops were infiltrated through Laos along with 300 tons of materiel each month. From April through June 1966, the US launched 400 B-52 Stratofortress anti-infiltration sorties against the trail system. By the end of 1967 and the absorption of Steel Tiger operations into Operation Commando Hunt, 103,148 tactical air sorties had been flown in Laos. These strikes were supplemented by 1,718 B-52 Arc Light strikes. During the same time frame, 132 U.S. aircraft or helicopters had been shot down over Laos.”
http://historywarsweapons.com/operation-steel-tiger/
“U.S. joint-service Operation Commando Hunt is launched. This operation was designed to interdict Communist routes of infiltration along the Ho Chi Minh Trail, through Laos into South Vietnam. The aerial campaign involved a series of intensive air operations by U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps aircraft and lasted until April 1972. During the course of the operation, nearly 3 million tons of bombs fell on Laos. While Communist infiltration was slowed by this campaign, it was not seriously disrupted. Commando Hunt was ultimately considered a failure.”
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/operation-commando-hunt-commences
“While Communist infiltration was slowed by this campaign, it was not seriously disrupted. Commando Hunt was ultimately considered a failure.”
Back in Jr. High we had a substitute teacher for most of the year. Vietnam vet - history teacher. Every Friday he would show us a slide show with his own photos. And lots of documentary films on the war.
I recall one showing the kids and women repairing the roads by tossing in rocks and dirt. IIRC he said we would bomb it during the day, the women and children would repair it that evening, and the supplies and men would keep flowing south the rest of the night.
“I recall one showing the kids and women repairing the roads by tossing in rocks and dirt. IIRC he said we would bomb it during the day, the women and children would repair it that evening, and the supplies and men would keep flowing south the rest of the night.”
That’s the folly of bombing roads and railroads. Unless you hit a major bridge it can be quickly repaired.
That’s a lot of sorties. Maybe if we hadn’t had 32 “bombing pauses” it would have been even more effective.
Bombing pauses were one of the great follies that Admiral Sharpe condemns in his memoir. A bombing pause is something that only a politician would think is a good idea. It’s a good idea if your goal is to get your own troops maimed and killed.
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