[ Vanity ] Trump needs Carson to split evangelical votes and block Cruz

[nathanbedford]

Candidates need the strength to stand up and define themselves not let the media define them

Agreed but that strength is of use only in service of a goal which is to garner votes. It is a defensive measure in a sense, and the idea is not to antagonize voters but to proselytize them. No candidate has worse negatives than Donald Trump, maybe Hillary, maybe.

Donald Trump to a large degree has indeed defined himself, but what a mess he is made of the definition. He is neither liberal nor conservative, Republican or Democrat, or consistent on the issues. He has defined himself as an obnoxious blowhard and a narcissist to whole sections of the electorate, especially women.

Ted Cruz, by contrast, has never put a foot down wrong, has never committed a gaffe, is not wrong on any issue, and does not generate more enemies than converts. He can stand up to any debate or any one-on-one interview and never turns a hair.

Donald Trump has the ability to generate ratings, to be outrageous and thereby gain name recognition but he has now probably reached the limits of benefits from that game.

The more the electorate decide who they want to have with his finger inches away from the red button, who they can have pride to show the world the image of America and not be embarrassed, the more they will fall away from Donald Trump.

Yes, Trump's fanatical base of support will survive in ever diminishing numbers but we make a grave mistake as conservatives who take a very strong interest in politics when we extrapolate our level of knowledge, our degree of concern, and our enthusiasm beyond the bubble in which we operate. Donald Trump has been successful to this point because he has managed to break out of that bubble, or better put, by virtue of his participation on television shows had already broken out of the bubble and enjoyed name recognition. That does not necessarily translate into broad political support to become president of the United States among drive-by voters.

[BobL]

“My sense is that you know trump is not conservative...”

That’s certainly true with me, but until another Republican can make a CREDIBLE CASE that they’re serious about securing the border and immigration, Trump gets my vote, since losing that issue ‘trumps’ Kelo and everything else.

And, given that NO ONE was talking immigration until AFTER Trump’s late entry into the race, I really don’t see how anyone else can now be credible on the issue.

[Duchess47]

Thank you for that link and the information. I felt there was something odd in the background. Saving to research.

[Amntn]

Too bad Jimmy Carter isn’t running.

[ripnbang]

So if Carson fades his supporters will go to Cruz. I’m ok with that. Cruz is a much better

---

Wouldn’t count on that. Assuming the vast majority is support for Carson are evangelicals, they are not monolithic, nor are any voters. Many have different reasons for selecting a candidate. Sometimes it just has to do with who they “like” more or feel more comfortable with being in the top spot, taking action to fix the problems, etc.It is not a zero sum game as many are probably using Carson as a “parking spot” to see what shakes out of the rest of the debates, and continuing conversation on the candidates, including increased scrutiny on Dr Carson. I wouldn’t discount some of his voters going to Trump, Cruz, Rubio and even Bush or Kasich, if they’re still in the mix. Heck, Huckabee might get some “protest” votes. However, that’s assuming Carson does drop... And right now with his and Trumps numbers (I personally think if the R vote was held today Trump wins in a landslide) still garnering almost 50% of the vote, they aren’t going anywhere.

[BobL]

“Ted Cruz’s restored conservatism to the leading political theory of our time...”

I’ll be sure to remember to drop Ted’s name in the hat the next time that an opening comes up on Firing Line. Sure would be great to see him fighting and winning the INTELLECTUAL SLUG FESTS on that show...they can be BRUTAL.

But, for now, I just want someone that is serious about SEALING THE BORDER. I’ll worry about winning on PBS after that is accomplished.

[nathanbedford]

It is is certainly not nonsense to credit Cruz with restoring conservatism to its proper place as the leading political theory. Trump certainly has not done that because he is not a conservative and does not advocate conservative principles and does not make readily justify his policies by reference to the Constitution.

Trump is not a conservative, that proposition is beyond debate. He may or may not in the end be good on immigration, that is one issue albeit the most important issue, but he is not thereby rendered a conservative.

I do not credit Trump with getting rid of any of these candidates, especially Bush who got rid of himself. It was easy to predict Bush's political demise, I did it. The man simply does not have the chops on the trail and he is wrong on all the issues-in other words he is not conservative so he is out of step with the temper of the times. Those times have been largely structured not by Donald Trump but by Ted Cruz in the political sense.

Whatever influence Trump has exerted has been in the electoral field. He has never served. The most remarkable criticism of Cruz that I can imagine is that Cruz deserves no credit for standing up to McConnell because it should have been done long ago. But no one else did it!

No one has better defined the Gulf in the Republican Party between the establishment and conservatism than Ted Cruz. We will go to our graves waiting for Donald Trump to stand up for conservatism instead of Donald Trump.

[jwalsh07]

The “look” has saved 15,000 lives by operating on their brains. The “kook” was the Chief of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins when he was not yet 35 years old. The kook did all this bases on his own merit and bootstraps. I’m curious, what do you do?

[conservativejoy]

Heidi Cruz was given a required term membership in CFR as a part of her position at work. As soon as the term was up, she was out.

[BobL]

Weird...but good to know. Thanks.

[VanDeKoik]

“I do not credit Trump with getting rid of any of these candidates, especially Bush who got rid of himself.”

Yeah....ok. I’m sure you wont, but I’ll bet if Cruz so much as sneezed in Jeb’s direction, you would say he totally decimated him.

Cruz = restoring conservatism to its proper place as the leading political theory + Got rid of Bhomer almost all by himself. Because......reasons not given.

But Trump taking down Jeb? Well obviously Bush beat himself, because (reasons not given). Give me a break!

“Whatever influence Trump has exerted has been in the electoral field. He has never served. “

Wasn’t aware that was in the constitution as a prerequisite.

“The most remarkable criticism of Cruz that I can imagine is that Cruz deserves no credit for standing up to McConnell “

That’s not going to be a deciding factor for 99% of people in the primaries OR in the general. Not even a minor factor!

It’s like some of you seriously dont even try to understand how these elections play out. Like these inside-baseball scuffles in congress actually become deciding factors. They dont!

“Trump is not a conservative, that proposition is beyond debate. He may or may not in the end be good on immigration, that is one issue albeit the most important issue, but he is not thereby rendered a conservative.”

Glad to know that this has a gate. Well why you are doing that, the guy that is actually advocating conservative issues, and being a nationalist will just keep on going.

“No one has better defined the Gulf in the Republican Party between the establishment and conservatism than Ted Cruz”

Defining =/= beating them. And they were firmly entrenched and ready for their next easy primary win until Trump came along.

It is just absurd to pretend like all of this was just going to happen anyway. I guess if it all cant be attributed to Cruz and him alone, might as well just assume that it was going to happen anyway.

[Duchess47]

{That does not mean that Donald Trump offers a better solution than Ted Cruz. Both will build a wall, both will grant some measure of amnesty, the question is who will do so as a conservative?}

I seem to have missed the part where Cruz said he would build a wall. Also missed where Trump would grant amnesty.

[dforest]

I have not heard Curz say he would build a wall. If he did, it must be a new thing.

[palmer]

He has defined himself as an obnoxious blowhard and a narcissist to whole sections of the electorate, especially women.

Trump is tied in female favorability with Carson, Rubio and Bush: http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/185315/dissecting-trump-image-among-gop-men-women.aspx I agree that Trump's appeal has limits but his 35-40% poll numbers are solid along with his strength against the Dem candidates. But this discussion is not about poll ratings and electability, but the ability to fight the enemy, the media. Cruz has the strength to fight and Trump has the wile to get around the media. It is a difference in tactics and I think Trump beats all other candidates on agility.

[Duchess47]

I haven’t heard Cruz say he would build a wall either.

[jpsb]

" it is incomprehensible that he would choose Trump."

What is really incomprehensible is for a conservative to choose anyone other than Trump. Only Trump says he will enforce existing immigration laws. No one other that Trump promises to do that, Not Cruz, not Paul, not Carly not Carson, only Trump. And if our laws are not enforced soon the Marxist will take over the country FOREVER. Do you really want to give the Marxists in the uniparty 10-50 million new Marxists voters? If not then you have no other choice then to vote Trump. I am dumbfounded that some people that claim to be patriotic conservative Americans can seem to grasp the very simple idea that the invasion of Marxist Rats voters must not only be stopped is must be reversed (deport) in order to preserve the nation.

[jpsb]

"So, you are telling me that "true" conservatives are supposed to support the less conservative candidate? (Trump)."

Yes a the reason why is in 156 above.

[jpsb]

And don’t forget Cruz voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act. Thankfully Rand Paul killed it with no help from Cruz.

[nathanbedford]

Trump's proposal on immigration is incoherent and logistically impossible.

1. He would deport everyone here illegally. This is a laudable goal which I support but which is logistically impossible especially if there are more than the 11 million illegals in country. The importation of 20 to 30,000,000 illegal aliens is simply not going to happen, although we should never admit that it should not happen.

But Romney had it right, cut off the benefits, cut off the employment, and they will self deport.

The problem is, it takes a pretty gullible person to believe that Trump could actually deport these people.

2. After they are deported Trump proposes to readmit them. He does not tell us on what basis he would choose whom to admit and whom to exclude, only that it would be those people he thinks that are "wonderful"or is it those people who are "terrific"? I assume that each one of these adjectives defines a different class.

Virtually every conservative Republican today is eager to build the fence not excluding Marco Rubio. The fence has been around a long time before Donald Trump came on the scene. No Republican president can fail the build the fence unless he wants to end up with approval numbers in the range of the departing George Bush.

[jpsb]

The Rats will skin Cruz alive on the Natural Born Citizen thing. Clearly they want payback for conservatives going after Obama on that. Cruz would lose in a land slide on that issue alone. And if you think he’d get a pass on that by the Democrat you’re insane. In fact there is a good chance the courts would get involved and decide once and for all if just having one parent with a US passport is all that is required to be a Natural Born Citizen. I personally think NBC means two US parents and born in the USA. No divided loyalties or put another way no dual citizenship.