This Topgun Instructor Watched The F-14 Go From Tomcat To 'Bombcat'

You're right they were three letters ratings. I remember when the liberty launches needed fuel the Grapes were the once who got it to us at their pumping stations near the boat booms. But there was some day tanks maybe 100-200 gallons on the 02 level in several places.

Har!...Grapes! Yup, that's what we were called. I believe there were some other colored jersey shirts that were part of the Aviation Department in my day. Without Googling, I think they were Red and Green. I think Red was ordnance, Green was cargo, and the Brown were part of the attached air squadron. Again, I was helo carrier airdale. Think there were some White shirts, but can't remember if on or off ship.

Here's a couple interesting things that happened to me to show you the helo carriers weren't as safe as many think - maybe they are now:
1. While running across the deck to jump down into the catwalk fueling station to fuel a CH-46 (Chinook), the LSE launched a fully loaded CH-43 (Sea Stallion) early and the tail rotor almost cut me half. If you know anything about single top rotor helos, the rear rotor dips down when taking off. I almost punched out the LSE, until my crew pulled me off. He was relieved of his LSE duties.
2. Also, while operating the port aft fueling station, I called down to the pump room to cut fuel. They didn't, and when I took the nozzle off the JP-5 pipe it shot up with enough force to blow off my helmet and goggles and almost blow me over-board. They had to stop flight ops to clean out my eyes and take me to sick bay. Needless to say, the petty officer in the pump room never advance.

Although the Snipes worked in the worse hell holes on the ship, at least they could go to the mess decks in regular shifts. Us flight deck types were lucky to get a dry baloney and cheese sandwich while around the clock ops. Still, I wouldn't trade those miserable days and nights for anything in the world. The entire experience made me a better man and I have used those personal trials throughout my life.

The above said, I so admire Marine, Army, and other ground forces. My little contribution of 11 years Navy is nothing compared to their shitty deployments to the cesspool that is Iraq and Aftganiscrap. They are truly America's best.

Was it the Harriers the Navy was trying out in 1980 or maybe I saw a joint op off VACAPES? When we went on our first shakedown in Oct 80 we had a LPH {looked like one of ours but not certain} about 4 miles or so off our starboard midship.

I could see planes approaching it and disappearing. They didn't fly past the island. It was far enough away you couldn't really make out what was going on but close enough you could see their planes approaching their aft and you didn't see the plane anymore. Then some guy yelled hey look at the Harriers over there LOL. Kinda like the flying fish if you haven't seen it before you don't believe what you're seeing at first. Oh and missing seagulls was always followed by chicken for supper the next night.

On the ship we had the Fire Dept wearing red jerseys also before I got out. But they had a black Triangle on them. It was a pooled division that eventually became permanent.

I had a buddy up in the Fresnel lenses room so I assume some ATC's were Green shirt the ones involved in landings anyway. Red usually was Avord and White safety??? Or could have been HT's on at sea fire department. On some carriers they did away with HT's doing all the fire fighting which was a good idea. The guys on my ship who were HT's and in the at sea Fire Dept wore white jerseys with a red triangle till their fire dept was disbanded in late 1979.

Yeah we usually got to eat for what it was worth. Our cooks put rice in everything LOL. We also had a popcorn popper we used to cook on. My shop had access to the walk in coolers. Or down in The Hole you could wrap food in tin foil and bake food on a steam pipe.

BTW I didn't mean anything by the Grape comment it's just what everybody called them. My Fire Dept and Coxun friend that rented an apartment with me in Oceanview I called a Deckape half the time. He never took it serious. He was a GM when he first got to the ship and had went to the GM's A school. Instead of going to Weapons Dept he stayed in Deck Dept and made BM3.

We never did get Marine Squadron onboard but we had about 50 or so Marines who were ships company and handled all ship security. That job I would have hated. Standing a couple of four hour watches a day on a hatch would have drove me nuts. You sure didn't want to go to their Brig either. I saw it a few times on trouble calls because they cut the heat on. But the sentry duty they did had to be done that way back then and they stood watch with loaded rifles even at sea for obvious reasons. No one was above being suspected. Yet they say today that they can't trust them or soldiers to protect themselves in places like recruiting offices? Different military, different rules, different leaders, and a different nation than today.

Remember, your Oath is forever.

" Was it the Harriers the Navy was trying out in 1980 or maybe I saw a joint op off VACAPES?"

Don't remember what VACAPES was, but you're correct the Navy was experimenting with Harriers on amphib carriers. We had them a couple times on the New Orleans (LPH-11) while training to "hot fuel" them. Never saw them again. Heard that "hot fueling" was not good since a couple sailors lost a hand or major burns from the different exhaust ports.

"Oh and missing seagulls was always followed by chicken for supper the next night."

Killing me. I always suspected that after so many weeks at sea, with short UNREPS. Remember the rumor about salt peter in the food to reduce the crew's sex drive?

"On the ship we had the Fire Dept wearing red jerseys also before I got out. But they had a black Triangle on them. It was a pooled division that eventually became permanent."

Could be wrong, but on my ship I believe the red jerseys were ordnance. Maybe they were "pooled" below decks for damage control, but not the flight deck.

"I had a buddy up in the Fresnel lenses room so I assume some ATC's were Green shirt the ones involved in landings anyway."

Still believe that green shirts were cargo. Know for a fact that yellow shirts were air department that launched and landed aircraft, at least on my amphib carrier. Not sure what the ATC's wore, but they would be up in air ops tower along with the Air Department CO. See the above how one ABE Yellow shirt launched on me and almost killed me. He was an E-6 and I was a lowley E-4 and we almost went to blows. "On some carriers they did away with HT's doing all the fire fighting which was a good idea. The guys on my ship who were HT's and in the at sea Fire Dept wore white jerseys with a red triangle till their fire dept was disbanded in late 1979."

Now I'm totally confused. Can't believe there was so much difference among ships in our same era. The below deck "Flying Squad" was made up of all types, mostly Engineering and Deck. Flight and hangar deck fire fighters were all air department. Hangar deck training sometimes included other departments for catastrophic back up.

"BTW I didn't mean anything by the Grape comment it's just what everybody called them."

No offense taken by the Grape comment. Look back and you see that I laughed. Just another fun competitive dumbass name between departments/divisions. How do you think the BM's felt about being "deck apes" or Engineering being "Snipes"? It was all in fun among shipmate brothers.

"We never did get Marine Squadron onboard but we had about 50 or so Marines who were ships company and handled all ship security."

50 Marines? We had almost 2000 on the Nawlins when fully operational. What? You never stood a watch in your time? Any watch is for security. I used to work around the clock on the flight deck and get maybe four hours sleep, including sh*t, shower & shave, and then do a ship wide security watch, only to start my day over dealing with flight ops or Fuel Division maintenance and/or paperwork later as I advanced.

Most rewarding time of my life making sure those helos had the cleanest fuel mixture for the Marines and pilots. I lucked out not having to re-build the JP-5 fuel centrifuges down in the pump room. Never sure why. Guess our CPO thought I was more valuable on the flight deck since I was about 26 (joined late) when all others were in their teens. Also, maybe why I and one other were meritoriously advanced from E-4 to E-5 by the Captain (ship's company - 600). Yup, bragging. Of course, 4.0 evals didn't hurt either. Ha, more bragging.

Last question: Are you a Shellback?

Beautiful! Where can I buy that??

Don't remember what VACAPES was

Shortened name or message name for Virginia Capes. Just off the coast and I assume included upper North Carolina operations area.

Could be wrong, but on my ship I believe the red jerseys were ordnance. Maybe they were "pooled" below decks for damage control, but not the flight deck.

Red was also Ordnance and they had AVORD written on some of them. Ours had a triangle symbolizing the three parts required for fire and Fire Dept on them. Flight Deck was Crash and Salvage crews territory at sea. They had the asbestos or fire suit we didn't.

I really don't know if the Fire Department as a stand alone full time division was just on America or all CV/CVN's from 1980 on. I do know from seeing crew member list it continued on America. Like I said before that at sea HT's were handling that and a some of weapons dept also responded. I think there was a mass causality fear that if all the HT's were taken out in a fire we'd loose pipe fitters, welders, carpenters, Co2 shop, etc. This way all departments sent a couple of men T.A.D. When I got out the guys assigned to it were still wearing red jerseys. They did the hose stations, Hatch, Scuttles, and CO2 PMS on the ship. If a big fire or explosion hit it was GQ time and repair parties took over. It also helped in getting more persons Damage Control qualified faster.

50 Marines? We had almost 2000 on the Nawlins when fully operational. What? You never stood a watch in your time? Any watch is for security. I used to work around the clock on the flight deck and get maybe four hours sleep, including sh*t, shower & shave, and then do a ship wide security watch, only to start my day over dealing with flight ops or Fuel Division maintenance and/or paperwork later as I advanced.

Yeah we had a permanent ships company Marine Detachment because we had Nuke ordnance onboard. But none of our air squadrons were Marines. That's what I mean they guarded the hatch to the weapons spaces.

My watches were machinery watches. Started out as AC&R Rover meaning I had to check and log all our gear every two hours. The 10 A/C's forward and aft refrigeration gear, Photo Lab, Calibration Lab etc. We had special units for them. The Chill Drinking Water System was also ours. The AC&R Top Watch stayed at the shop and took the trouble calls and any problems the Rover couldn't do with. Top Watch was E-4. At sea I'd stand at least two watches plus my work day. But at least on watch I was moving around. The guys down in The Hole some of them had six hour watches. In port I still had to stand the same watches on my duty days.

Yeap I'm a Shellback. We did a South America Cruise in June 1977 I think a few months before leaving for The Med. I got to go down to Rio. I would have liked to have had one trip North Atlantic to the British Isles.

"Red was also Ordnance and they had AVORD written on some of them. Ours had a triangle symbolizing the three parts required for fire and Fire Dept on them. Flight Deck was Crash and Salvage crews territory at sea. They had the asbestos or fire suit we didn't.

Yes, we agree that red jerseys were ordnance, however don't remember AVORD designation. Also yes, the main Crash and Salvage crews on flight deck wore reflective silver suits with gold visors. However, I can't count the number of times that ALL flight deck personnel trained for fire-fighting. Ugh, what a mess with the aquaeous? foam and water.

On my ship, below fire-fighting was called the "Flying Squad". There was no Fire Department. The Flying Squad was made up of many different ratings as assigned by Damage Control.

Looking back over my post, I realized my reply was not the best about watches. I apologize if I sounded crappy. I just hated watches, especially the fuel watch where I had to climb down/up a vertical ladder 3 or 4 decks to the pump room every 20 minutes from OOOO to 0400, not to mention going to every fuel pumping station on the flight deck. Watches were one of the reasons I left the Navy after 11 years, not to mention the stress on my family. Planned on 20 years.

Flight Ops and consecutive watches could be grueling, but nothing like the Marines had to do once ashore. They're my favorite military branch. Just wish they didn't buy up everything in the ship's store and I didn't have to step over them everywhere when aboard...har. But that's what you get on an amphib carrier as an airdale. Although us sailors with our sea legs used to make them sick on the mess deck as we would sway in unison. Good fun!

Still got your certificate, Shellback? I do. I even snagged the bra from the E-3 who got stuck being King Neptune's b*tch. Try telling a college "rush" what that initiation was about. They look at you like, "what the frig?" Hell, I think I still have marks on my ass from the paddles and can still taste the garbage from the mess deck as I pulled my way through a makeshift tunnel. :) Remember sucking the cherry out of the used grease laden belly button of the CPO playing Neptune? Ack. I wonder if the Shellback initiation is still as degrading, painful, and rewarding now that our Navy has become so feminized.

Fair winds...sailor. I appreciate your time.

I honestly think what was on the jerseys was Command or Departmental discretion. An aircraft carrier deal with a lot more ordnance than other ships and as such it was a large department. BTW they were ships company. I also think America was likely a prototype for the type of Fire Dept I talked about to try and make it a permanent pooled department on aircraft carriers. I believe it was an idea that came from the HTCM on our ship. Before HT rating was put in place R-division consisted of rated Damage Controlmen, Pipe fitters, Carpenters, and they got combined sometime in the early 1970’s into one. Same thing with MM’s & BT’s in the 1990’s I think it was all BT’s became MM’s.

"I honestly think what was on the jerseys was Command or Departmental discretion."

I'm sure you're correct 'cause when I first got to the New Orleans as an E-2 airdale, many guys had personalized reflective stickers on their flight deck helmets and personal writings on their jerseys (probably VN era leeway). Got a new Skipper who changed all back to uniform.