This Topgun Instructor Watched The F-14 Go From Tomcat To 'Bombcat'

Foxtrot Alpha ^ | 8/21/15 | Dave “Bio” Baranek

[USARightSide]

Grumman also made an aluminum canoe.
I believe they also made the Frito-Lays trucks - look for the Grumman logo on the side near the driver’s door, I think.
The current small mail trucks were made by Grumman. They’ve been around for some time now. It was not designed by Grumman - only built by them.
I dare say Grumman employees would have designed a better mail truck.

[USARightSide]

‘After filling the missile tubes with concrete - - ‘

Back then when the Shah was deposed, there was talk of blowing up the F-14’s to keep the planes from the new regime. But it never happened, of course.
However, where was the new regime going to obtain new parts for the F-14 - ???!

[misanthrope]

Always love reading old squid's posts. I was on The Big E 81-85, G-2 Weps, EM2 working elevators and fuel pumping stations (among other stuff).

Wish I'd stayed in, but at the time, the women had soaked up pretty much all of the shore billets for Electrician's Mates, so I was looking at 20 yrs sea time. While in retrospect the experience aboard the Enterprise was priceless, at the time it felt like it sucked big time. I couldn't wait to get out.

Time and experience sure mold our perspectives.

[mkjessup]

Back then when the Shah was deposed, there was talk of blowing up the F-14’s to keep the planes from the new regime. But it never happened, of course.
However, where was the new regime going to obtain new parts for the F-14 - ???!

This article is from just this past March, and apparently they've been getting parts from someone, I wouldn't be surprised if it was that traitorous sack o' Kenyan sh*t in the White House:

http://theaviationist.com/2015/03/01/iriaf-f-14s-overhauled/

[cva66snipe]

I actually seriously thought about going back in during the 1982 recession or rather depression in my area. I went to talk to a recruiter and basically was told the billets were near full for MM’s. In 1980 though they offered me $15K and E-5 if I had stayed in for six more LOL. Instead of going in I went back to school on my GI Bill then in 84 joined the army national guards for a year. That cured me fully of anymore desires to enlist LOL.

[USARightSide]

‘However where was the new regime going to obtain new parts for the F14 - ???!’

Ah - that’s the rub - the part I purposely left out - - Loose Lips and all that - - - whatever -

[A Navy Vet]

"I joined in 1976. The enlisted raised as much a stink as the chiefs and officers about the old pants and shirt with jacket dress blues officer and chief type. They were highly dysfunctional, hard to stow on ship without them getting wrinkled or filthy, and high maintenance. The Crackerjacks were welcomed back by most junior enlisted I knew. But IIRC they were optional UOD up till almost 1981. I mustered out in Oct 80 and chief checked my sea bag before I got out. I had to buy the Crackerjacks before I could leave."

I had no problem storing my double breasted dress blues and combo hat on my first ship. Beside the locker under our bunks, everyone had a "stand up" locker to store such. It was the rare occasion you had to wear dress blues. The working Uniform of the Day aboard ship was chambray shirts and dungerees and ballcap.

The old age is probably kicking in but I think the Crackerjacks came back around 1981, while stationed in Rota, Spain. Also, I remember every enlisted being po'd that they had to buy new uniforms and patches to be sewed on. Interestingly, women have always had a romantic attachment to sailors in Crackerjacks.

That said, I get that tradition is everything in the Navy. Still, never liked the dixie cup, although it was suppose to be a flotation device. Do you remember jumping off the high dive in Basic Training and pulling off the dungree trousers and tying both legs into a knot and pulling over your head to make a flotation device (all while treading water)? Many recruits in my Company had to repeat. Three failures and out of Basic. Wonder if they still do that.

I also remember the winter "working" blues with a black shirt, black tie, and black trousers. After Navy, I saw a recruiter wearing that UOD with a black piss-cutter. It looked sharp. Wonder what they wear now if off ship. Guess I could Google.

I left the Navy in December 1986 as E-6 - 11 years total active/active Reserve. I was going to go at least 20, but my rating was closing up, and Chief was not looking good anytime soon. Got a good offer from a civilian company.

I would do it all over again. The Navy made a man out of a lost punk. I carry the values that the Navy instilled in me to this day.

[A Navy Vet]

"...EM2 working elevators and fuel pumping stations".

Huh? We were in around the same time. IIRC, the elevators were operated by Bo'suns Mates (Deck Department). The fuel pumping stations were operated by Aviation Bo'suns Mates (ABF's - Aviation Department), which was my initial rating. I converted to an administrative rating while in Rota, Spain (tired of endless flight decks hours)and went to a Frigate after that shore duty. Maybe things had changed by the mid-80's for big decks and helo amphibs.

Yup, most of us Navy types still remember fondly our time at sea. Although, we weren't in the mix like the grunts, we still served during the cold war and could be blown apart by a Soviet sub, which followed us day and night.

Something that has always bother me is that in those cold war years we were not awarded the National Service medal/ribbon. What? We didn't serve our Country during the cold war? Yeah, I know it's a "gee-dunk" award, like the Sea Service ribbon. No, I'm not an award person. I did my job and proud of it. Just don't understand the Navy's position on that particular award regarding the time-frame.

My biggest regret upon leaving the Navy is that if I had stayed one more year, I could have gone Gold on my dress blues as an E-6. That was rare in those days. But still, take opportunities when they present themselves. Fair seas, shipmate. Remember, your Oath is forever.

[A Navy Vet]

"I actually seriously thought about going back in during the 1982 recession or rather depression in my area. I went to talk to a recruiter and basically was told the billets were near full for MM’s. In 1980 though they offered me $15K and E-5 if I had stayed in for six more LOL. Instead of going in I went back to school on my GI Bill then in 84 joined the army national guards for a year. That cured me fully of anymore desires to enlist LOL."

"Six years" for E-5 and "$15k" as a Snipe? Good move. Besides Bo'suns Mates and flight deck Airdales, they were some of the hardest working ratings aboard ship in my time. Have you been able to use your Navy mechanic skills in civilian life?

[A Navy Vet]

"In short, the A-10 is obsolete and there are better alternatives."

Sorry, didn't want to take the time to search the URL provided for your reply. No air support expert, but I have read many times that the grunts swear by the A-10. Please provide me with "alternatives".

I know about the "Spectre", but it is a slow moving higher altitude gunship for fire-power over a broader range, where the Warthogs can come in fast and low and surgically devastate with their guns. Then again, what do I know? Thanks for any info.

[A Navy Vet]

I am always impressed that you have probably forgotten more about ship systems and naval protocol/traditions in your one enlistment than I learned in my 11 years of both Airdale and Blackshoe.

And yes, I know what it was like for Snipes in the hole back in the day. The rare time I went down to the boiler room to visit friends, those who weren't operating were standing directly under the A/C vent. If only those young guys knew what BT stood for - Baked Testicles. Har.

[cva66snipe]

Ok some clarifications. A div maintained the elevators.Abh operated them. A division Hydraulics shop did the maintenance for all elevators and steering gears. Abhf ran aviation fuels in 2 and 6 pump rooms. Test lab ran by snipes were incharge of dfm pumping feedwater and such. Oil king was a BT in test lab.bosuns did the at sea fuel rigging but. boiler tech and cheng determined which tanks the dfm went. That was how ballast was maintained andt tanks were sounded every two hours or so. The worst job was shooting the boilers. Ill explain later when I get bone to my computer and off tablet.

[misanthrope]

"...EM2 working elevators and fuel pumping stations". Huh? We were in around the same time. IIRC, the elevators were operated by Bo'suns Mates (Deck Department). The fuel pumping stations were operated by Aviation Bo'suns Mates (ABF's - Aviation Department), which was my initial rating.

I'm sure you're probably right. I was referring to electrical maintenance on the elevators and pumping stations.We worked on all the elevators from the dumbwaiters that served the galleys to the aircraft elevators, but our main focus was weapons elevators.

[A Navy Vet]

"I was referring to electrical maintenance on the elevators and pumping stations."

My bad for not thinking about electrical maintenance on those systems. I was narrowly focused on operational handling of said elevators and pumping stations. I concede to the Engineering department. If not for you techs, we wouldn't be able to conduct flight operations which was the ultimate mission.

However, I have a bone to pick with the MM's and EM's on LPH-11. We had 3 A/C units on that amphib ship and was rare that all 3 ever worked at once. While I was mostly on the flight deck or a small office underneath, the enlisted berthing compartment turned into hell on waves. Go into port and shower and head out; you're already in a shirt-soaking sweat before you reach the gangway. Just messing with you Snipes. Probably got the rating wrong for who was responsible for the A/C.

This was in the day of Mail Call, before the Internet existed, much less satellite phone comms. Thanks for serving, Mate.

[cva66snipe]

It was Union Navy rules LOL. MM's couldn't do EM's task :>} There was some confusion as to who did what some times. The mechanics of it MM's in A-Div did on the elevators, A/C's etc. They even did O2N2. The electrical end of it EM's handled usually although I had my unoffical fuse pullers LOL. On a carrier you had to deal with the DFM Diesel Fuel Marine for the boilers and boats and JP5 and AVGAS. And I was told the boats could actually run on JP5 also.

B-Division handled the DFM specifically Test Lab. The worst part of that job was shooting the boiler with caustics. I can't remember all the ingredients but one was Red Devil Lye and you hoped it didn't spit it back at you. Happened to me more than once.

IIRC 2 & 6 pump room on the conventional were aviation pump rooms. #6 back at the aft chow line would about take your head off. Matter of fact America had an explosion down there in the late 1980's I think.

The electrical loads misanthropew would know a lot more about but I think the aircraft elevators and Chillers were the two largest single draws. A 200 ton unit would peg the ampmeter probably pulling close to 1200 amps on start up.

I saw one EM do something I wouldn't have done for nothing. #2 A/C was our shop and below the fwd mess decks. When I first got in the shop it had a motor driven knife blade contactor. It had to be exactly lined up to engage all three blades at the exact same time. On that one unit it always gave trouble. A EM1 began coming down there with a broom handle every time we lit it off and he would knock the errant blade in. Before that it blew the controller door off at least once. We'd hit the start button and it had a 45 second delay I think it was and we left the compartment and went up to the mess decks and listened for it to start up. 10- 15 seconds it was either running or popped the breaker back at the switchboard. The old contactor got replaced with a coil contactor in 1978.

Carriers had about 1600 to 2000 tons cooling capacity depending on which ship or 9 or 10 chillers usually. That may have changed. They put a 300 ton unit on America in 1980 I signed for that one.

The older carriers didn't have quite enough A/C and the higher up in the ship deck wise the less it cooled. VAST, OE, Avionics and Operations, got priority did to mission critical. Some had back up package units. FWD IC was critical.

Believe it or not I've slept on the 03 level while in port. In the yards the Fire Department took over a squadrons berthing and ready room. The compartments in port as far as cooling are limited by the electrical service limits from shore power. At sea we could run as many as needed. In port we could only run what shore power could handle and had to leave enough power for fire pumps and lights etc to function. Full load on each chiller was 175-300 amps at 460 volts depending on which one.

[misanthrope]

HOLY SMOKES!! How do you remember all of that??

[cva66snipe]

LOL I have a life long learning difficulty issue to be honest. Book work is very difficult. So is retaining something someone tells me to remember while I'm doing something else. Concentration eventually suffered as well in my 30's.

My last physical a couple months ago they told me three words to remember and then asked me a bunch of other stuff. Then afterward they asked me to tell them the three words and I could not remember them. But once it gets in my memory it stays. If America was still in commission I could still line up and lite off the chillers.

I knew a lot about the ship too because of Fire Department. I went into ever space but the tanks & voids even places normally not allowed except in drydock. Even went inside a boiler in the yards up to the base of the stack and walked underneath it in drydock LOL. The boats I remember because I was a T.A.D. engineman in the Med for a cruise and a half. I even remember what #5 switchboard looked like when a DFT Line above it ruptured. Melted that sucker LOL. The routine especially at sea was like Groundhog Day. It gets embedded LOL.

We had a MPA whom I kid you not knew all valves, the numbers to them, alignment, and where to reach behind and find them. Not just the propulsion stuff he knew where our CW loop valves were.

[A Navy Vet]

"HOLY SMOKES!! How do you remember all of that??"

I don't get it, either. 66snipe must have a photo memory. He has been out of the Navy for decades and was even Navy before me ( joined 1975). He should be an archive consultant of some sort, or maybe a Naval museum curator. I've followed him for years and no one knows more about early ship systems I've ever talked to. He also keeps up with recent Naval developments.

BTW, I researched a few of his technical statements years back and gave up because they were always correct. The guy is Blue and Gold throughout.

[A Navy Vet]

"Abhf ran aviation fuels in 2 and 6 pump rooms."a

To nitpick, it wasn't Abhf - it was ABF. I was an ABF. And yes, ABH operated the elevators, but also handled the aircraft movements on the flight and hangar decks. They also launched and recovered the aircraft on the flight deck, if they were Yellow Shirts. ABH Blue Shirts moved them around, and ABF Purple Shirts also operated/maintained the flight deck pumping stations and physically fueled the aircraft.

Of course, this is my experience on an amphip troop carrier (LPH-11).

[cva66snipe]

I just remember what was current for when I was in. I could tell some of this to lets say a guy who was on there in 1990 and some stuff would be different. I’ve also talked to plankowner from my shop before & we concluded a lot of stuff was added from it’s build time to when I was on it. And each carrier is different in some way. America was the only carrier with a Sonar Dome. I learned that in a forum the ships vet association used to run. Forestall was the only Super Carrier with a 600 PSI plant. None were completely identical.