Posted on 08/09/2015 5:18:13 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
I’m not sure that is how it would have played out; at the time of the surrender Japan still had a million armed men in China, and a civil war implies both sides are the same people - there was no Japanese population that would have supported the Soviets.
But most likely the war would have dragged on for a few more years. To defeat Japan through conventional weapons probably would have taken assistance from the Soviets, at a price.
I agree; D-Day itself wasn’t even the largest landing for the US (that was in the Pacific (maybe Tarawa or Guadacanal), and the casualties don’t measure up to the hype. In fact, while called “getting a toe-hold in Europe”, it ignores the 1943 toe-hold in Italy (probably because it ran into a brick wall from Kesselring’s defense of the Italian peninsula). Anzio seems bloodier than D-Day, and the fighting in Italy so fierce they had to attack what was a relatively unprotected Atlantic coast to move masses of troops & equipment onto the European continent.
I see that Tammany is still going on.
The second bomb shared headline with the Russians joining the war.
70 year effect of bombs denied (Hey, isn’t that now)
No Vatican stand on bomb is taken (where did it come from then.... they still clarify everything these days)
10. The Iowa - They probably had no idea it would serve so long.
Entry of Russians into war... just surrender already
I doubt it; Japan was done in terms of fighting a modern war by 1945. They couldn’t transport anything, and American bombers weren’t even encountering Japanese fighters by the time they dropped the bomb. They had been brought to a standstill, and would have faced starvation quickly. Critics of the island-hopping campaign point out (with some justification) that many of those islands could have been simply bypassed once the Japanese naval presence was neutralized. In the meantime, Britain would be able to unleash those troops freed from the European theater in Asia itself.
For all of the propaganda about the Axis seeking to dominate the world, the fact is that its military strength was designed to fight short wars at close range; Japan’s inability to defeat China’s outdated forces speaks volumes (and is similar to Germany’s inability to defeat the USSR).
You have done a very impressive job
Japan would have ended up divided like Korea and Germany
” . . . most likely the Soviets occupy Northern Japan . . .”
I was talking about the war with my younger brother about a week back, and this topic came up. He contended that the Russkies demanded that they occupy the northernmost main Japanese island, ala the occupation zones in Germany - but that Macarthur blew them off, essentially ignoring their demands. I expect there was more to it, but he’s generally pretty much up on war-related stuff. Plus, unlike eastern Germany, the Russians didn’t really have much clout (in terms of boots on the ground there) to push their case.
When Stalin realized what we had he pushed up the jump off date.
When we saw the Russians invade Manchuria we pushed up the date for Fat Man.
Kokura was spared by rapidly instituted countermeasures against atomic attack. Upon hearing the air raid siren, a supervisor at the Yawata Steel Works ordered the factory incinerator started, where a number of drums of coal tar had been placed to be burned for a smoke screen.
I wonder if this remained untold due to the cultural imperatives that made a pariah of the Japanese survivor of the Titanic.
And the Army was making those same demands after TWO bombs dropped.
I have always wondered what Hirohito was really thinking. It was now obvious we had more than one bomb. He must have inferred that Tokyo was at or near the top of the target list for the next bombs. Did he finally impose a decision to save his own neck from incineration? If he did, I have never read that he ever admitted it.
There is a copy of a biography of Hirohito in the stack on my nightstand which should have either the answer to that question or some insight into it.
As for not being ready to surrender, the American intercepts of the Japanese diplomatic cables to their embassies in Moscow, Switzerland and Sweden made it quite clear to us that there was no internal desire on the part of the Japanese government to accept the Potsdam Proclamation, or anything like it.
As I’ve said before, I’m not sure whether Soviet intervention alone would have been enough to bring the Japanese to surrender. I do think some sort of significant game-changer was needed. The civilian leaders knew that the people were starving and were ready to quite. The military leaders knew the people were starving and weren’t. And the military held the trump card.
I know, but reading the Headlines it has the appearance of coordination and I am sure it looked that way to the Japanese.
I posted a site yesterday that discussed this theory as well as others, it was not conclusive but it may have been a FACTOR but not the only thing. It sure makes for a good headline and story though...................
From your source.
“believes that the black smoke from the burning coal tar, mixed with air-raid smoke and ash as well as steam caused by the rain the day before, could have blocked the U.S. aircraft’s view.”
The Japanese would have seen it as just the kind of overly complicated hard to coordinate plan they loved.
If our senior military leaders knew about the Japanese refusal to accept Potsdam or any reasonable facsimile on what basis did they think Japan would nevertheless surrender on that basis?
I dunno, do the Japanese perhaps have projectile dysfunction?
Incredible work. Simply wonderful.
What will you do now, Homer?
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