FLEET PLANES POUND TOKYO AREA; BATTLESHIPS SHELL HAMAMATSU; BIG 3 CLOSE TO ACCORD ON REICH (7/30/45)

Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 7/30/45 | George E. Jones, Frank L. Kluckhohn, Raymond Daniell, Hanson W. Baldwin

[Homer_J_Simpson]

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[PeterPrinciple]

Project Hula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Hula Project Hula was a secret program of World War II in which the United States transferred naval vessels to the Soviet Union in anticipation of the Soviets eventually joining the war against Japan King officially established the transfer-and-training program as Project Hula in mid-February 1945 and ordered Fletcher to commence the rehabilitation of the United States Army facilities at Cold Bay‍ '​s Fort Randall, which had been closed in November 1944. He advised Fletcher that an officer appointed to take charge of the training and his staff would arrive at Cold Bay by 24 March 1945, and that the first 2,500 Soviet trainees would arrive by 1 April 1945, with 550 more to follow by 1 May and another 2,000 by 1 June.[8] As the plan was finalized, the United States was to transfer 180 ships – 30 Tacoma-class patrol frigates (U.S. Navy hull classification symbol PF), 24 Admirable-class minesweepers (AM), 36 auxiliary motor minesweepers (YMS), 30 large infantry landing craft (LCI(L)), 56 submarine chasers (SC), and four floating workshops (YR) – to the Soviet Union by 1 November 1945, The 30 Tacoma-class patrol frigates were the largest, most heavily armed, and most expensive ships scheduled for transfer in Project Hula

[PeterPrinciple]

More info on Project Hula here:

https://pediaview.com/openpedia/Project_Hula

[PeterPrinciple]

Read Aftermath and Conclusion at the above. I can’t get it to post for some reason.

Lend lease required the return of ships after the war. How do you think that went after the war?

If they had used them for invasion with japan, how would that have gone?

[PeterPrinciple]

Fukuryu

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukuryu

[colorado tanker]

Well, we have an answer to the question what would have happened (in a no bombs scenario) after a successful Operation Downfall and the occupation of Tokyo and the Kanto Plain. If the militarists had their way, they would have moved the government and Emperor to Nagano and fought on.

In that eventuality, the guys remaining in Easy Company and those replacements would have seen action in Japan.

[Hebrews 11:6]

Just curious: after being torpedoed, in the twelve minutes before sinking, did the Indianapolis not send out a distress signal?

[PeterPrinciple]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35)

The Indianapolis sent distress calls before sinking. Three stations received the signals; however, none acted upon the call. One commander was drunk, another had ordered his men not to disturb him and a third thought it was a Japanese trap.[18] For a long time the Navy denied that a distress call had been sent. The receipt of the call came to light only after the release of declassified records.

[PeterPrinciple]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35) Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz remitted McVay's sentence and restored him to active duty. McVay retired in 1949 as a Rear Admiral.[20] While many of Indianapolis‍‍ '​‍s survivors said McVay was not to blame for the sinking, the families of some of the men who died thought otherwise: "Merry Christmas! Our family's holiday would be a lot merrier if you hadn't killed my son", read one piece of mail.[21] The guilt that was placed on his shoulders mounted until he committed suicide in 1968, using his Navy-issue revolver. McVay was discovered on his front lawn with a toy sailor in one hand.[21] He was 70 years old. The day the Indianapolis was sunk was his 47th birthday.

[PeterPrinciple]

Good info here?

http://www.ussindianapolis.org/mcvay.htm

Perhaps the most egregious aspect of McVay’s ultimate conviction for failing to zigzag, however, was in the phrasing of the charge itself. The phrase was “during good visibility.” According to all accounts of the survivors, including eye-witness accounts of survivors only recently declassified and not made available to McVay’s defense at the trial, the visibility that night was severely limited with heavy cloud cover. This is pertinent for two reasons. First, as stated in an earlier section, no Navy directives in force at that time suggested, much less ordered, zigzagging at night with visibility limited. Second, McVay’s orders were “to zigzag at his discretion.” Thus, when he stopped zigzagging, he was simply following procedures set forth by Navy directives.

[henkster]

I believe the torpedo hits knocked out the ship’s electrical power. No distress call was sent. At least, that’s my recollection.

[colorado tanker]

The most interesting conclusion to me was that even after Project Hula the Soviets still didn’t have the sealift needed to invade Hokkaido or Honshu. They would have had (and did have) their hands full just invading Sakhalin and the Kuriles.

[henkster]

Today Baldwin wrote the obituary for the Imperial Japanese Navy. Nimitz has been gloating over its demise for the past few days. For the Americans, who refused to allow the naval aircraft of the British Far Eastern Fleet to participate, the raids on Kure were the final revenge for Pearl Harbor.

What was not widely covered is that those raids were costly: over 100 aircraft lost, over 100 air crew lost. They may have been the costliest air attacks conducted by the Pacific Fleet. There has been some recrimination about sending the naval aircraft into a target area known to have heavy AA protection. All to attack a fleet that no longer posed any threat to American naval supremacy.

One other item from today:

On Japan “ignoring” the Potsdam Proclamation. What are they thinking, considering they are being incessantly beaten without the ability to land any countering blows? I’m reminded of watching a boxing match a number of years ago with some of my friends; it was a total mismatch. One guy was just pounding away at will, and his opponent’s face was a bloody mess. Frankly, it was ghastly. But he refused to go down.

After watching a few rounds of this, one of my friends commented “Maybe his strategy is to gross out the other guy.”

Maybe that was Japan’s too, and from some of the Republican Senators’ statements, its working.

[henkster]

I read Dan Kurzman’s “Fatal Voyage” several years ago. But I only read it once; the story was so heartbreaking I don’t think I could read it again.

If I recall correctly, McVay’s suicide note said something like “I can’t take it any more.”

As for his trial, his defense called an American sub skipper (Donc Donaho?). Donaho testified that with modern torpedoes and fire control technique, zig zagging makes no difference. A competent sub skipper will compensate and put the fish on target. McVay got a good defense, but the game was rigged.

[henkster]

I know the Russians would have done anything to get a toehold on Hokkaido and/or northern Honshu to get a piece of the action in post-war Japan. You know they would not have cared about their own losses, or losses among the Japanese population. The Russians have generally looked down on their Asian neighbors as “little yellow sub-humans.”

They didn’t have much sealift, but on the other hand, could the Japanese have done much about it? I’m assuming the Russians would have attempted their landings after the Japanese had expended most of their kamikaze planes in Ketsu-Go.

[Hebrews 11:6]

So, the drunkard and the shirker went undisciplined?

[PeterPrinciple]

I believe the torpedo hits knocked out the ship’s electrical power. No distress call was sent. At least, that’s my recollection.

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It was the abandon ship call that could not be put on the speakers so was by word of mouth.

[PeterPrinciple]

their hands full just invading Sakhalin and the Kuriles.

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It appears they lost a few of the ships we gave them in those operations.

[PeterPrinciple]

So, the drunkard and the shirker went undisciplined?

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we learned that only after info had been declassified, don’t know how much time had passed, so yes................

[PeterPrinciple]

The following was interesting to me. I wonder how many of the crew were replaced? Another factor was that this was an untrained crew?

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Indianapolis was then sent to Guam where a number of the crew who had completed their tours of duty were replaced by other sailors. Leaving Guam on 28 July, she began sailing toward Leyte for training.

[chajin]

What was not widely covered is that those raids were costly: over 100 aircraft lost, over 100 air crew lost. They may have been the costliest air attacks conducted by the Pacific Fleet. There has been some recrimination about sending the naval aircraft into a target area known to have heavy AA protection. All to attack a fleet that no longer posed any threat to American naval supremacy.

As I think I said earlier, America didn't want Japan to surrender; it wanted Japan to grovel. As you put it:

the raids on Kure were the final revenge for Pearl Harbor

We wanted to beat the Nazis and rid the world of Hitler, but we wanted to rub Japan's face in the grave. While the Nazis were the scourge of Europe, the Japanese had attacked and humiliated us, which meant we had a number of perfectly understandable scores to settle, from Pearl to Wake to Bataan/Corregidor to the Aleutians, and by God we were going to settle them.