Posted on 07/21/2015 6:14:51 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
As for me, a non-military person, my response to McCain's defenders is this: “McCain deserves the same respect he showed the Swift Boat Veterans after their ad which aired during the DNC.
He immediately called them liars on national television. He offered nothing to back it up. They were all liars. Period. Agree with them or not, they had a right to be heard and vetted.
My distaste for him does not change anything he endured while a POW. But a war hero does not treat other vets the way he treated the Swifties.
You know, bottom line, everything I needed to know about John McCain, that is really important, was after his service to this country in the Navy...
Put that history aside, take a deep breath, relax...
And when you line it all up, his mediocrity, his nearer the center ideology, is really the reason I would never vote for him, support him, or encourage him to do anything else to damage this country...
Him and Romney both, Romney only made more money than he did...They were both the symptom of a political party establishment that failed this country for way too long...
@ US Navy Vet...
You and I both have served for officers who were not worth a damn, but we did it anyway, we did things to keep them out of trouble for the most part, and we moved on...
From what I see, McCain was a functional part of the chain of command, wherever he was assigned, and for all intents and purposes, I can see where some would assume he had a silver spoon in his back pocket with his Dad, but I get the impression from what I have read, and heard from people that know the guy, he did not much lean on that (relationship) as much as some might want to believe...
As a politician, he indemnifies everything we “conservatives” despise...
Trump was wrong in denigrating his service, and even though he (Trump) may have been right on some points, Trump has no credibility to criticize anyone’s service to this country in McCain’s capacity...
Just my dos centavos...
Vet,
13 of the first 50 comments on your “promise” to post something about the USS Forrestal fire have been written by YOU!
Why don't you just post your research or your memoir or whatever it is right now?
Then, the rest of us can evaluate it, right now.
Elaborate citing credible references please.
“I don’t know what happened in the cell in Vietnam,”
Admiral Stockton fills in the gap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfyGdG9llSE
“After McCain made his first run for the presidency, in 2000, Gregory Freeman wrote a book on the fire, “Sailors to the End.” Freeman’s 2002 book appears to be mostly reliable, but it ignores key parts of the official report and hews closely to McCain’s claim that the Zuni rocket struck his plane, not Fred White’s, causing the two thousand-pound bombs to drop into the burning fuel.
In addition to following McCain’s misleading narrative of the Zuni rocket accident to the letter, Freeman published an uncredited hand-drawn sketch purporting to show the Forrestal deck just before the fire. In that sketch, the plane in which White died is stripped of White’s name, even though Freeman printed the names of the other pilots near McCain’s plane and told their stories. The only place that White’s name appears is at the back of the book in a list of those who died. In the narrative of “Sailors to the End,” Fred White’s name is conspicuous by its absence.
After erasing White, Freeman’s sketch presents an incorrect line between the original position of the Zuni rocket and McCain’s plane, instead of showing the actual line that the rocket took in striking White’s plane. This sketch alone will cause the unwary reader to believe there is visual evidence to support the claim that the Zuni rocket hit McCain’s plane, not that of White, the pilot lost on the Forrestal and now airbrushed out of history, at least in Freeman’s book.
McCain wrote a glowing blurb for Freeman’s book, drawing and all, calling it a “riveting account.” The presence of his enthusiastic blurb on the book cover raises another issue: Freeman relied heavily on interviews of survivors who were close to the Forrestal events but he never quotes McCain directly or mentions having requested an interview with him. Because his book pushes McCain’s misleading and unsubstantiated account, Freeman should make public whether McCain, or people around him, played a role in the genesis of “Sailors to the End.”
“I’m an old Navy pilot. I know when a crisis calls for all hands on deck,”10 Sen. McCain said recently in explaining why he was temporarily suspending his presidential campaign and calling for postponement of the first debate between himself and Democratic candidate Barack Obama, which eventually occurred as scheduled. At the one time in his life when he was faced with a real crisis on deck, we now know, McCain left the crisis to others and descended to safety below. As to the question of whether the first bomb to explode on the Forrestal dropped from his plane through pilot error, it is not reassuring to hear him describe his attitude as a Navy pilot toward safety procedures. He told reporters during his 2000 presidential campaign that his motto in those days was: “Kick the tires and light the fires [jet engines]. To hell with the checklist. Anybody can be slow.”11
http://www.truthdig.com/report/page3/20081007_investigating_john_mccains_tragedy_at_sea
It was Fred White’s plane that was struck by the zuni missile, not John McCain’s.
http://a4skyhawk.org/content/forrestal-fire
If a bomb was released from McCain’s aircraft, as he states, it was not because it was struck by the zuni missile, as he misstates.
When my aviator father was killed, his best friend in the squad came with the chaplain to help notify my mother. I wonder if John McCain, who was in the aircraft next to LCDR White on that terrible day and saw him die, ever visited Fred White’s widow and 5 children? If Fred White had been my dad I would have wanted a visit by the last man who saw him that day. LCDR Fred White was airbrushed out of McCain’s ghost written tale of personal survival and heroics that day. Wonder why.
Wallow in your derangement.
Well I voted for Palin in the vain hope that Juan would have a stroke.
There were a number of bombs that went high order in the fire, five I think as well as other ordnance. The bombs were all of old vintage (WWII) and didn't have the stability of the newer bombs in a fire. So, which bomb went off first and where it came from becomes an issue of chronology more than issue of effect.
I'm sorry that Fred White didn't get the coverage he deserved and I am glad you cleared that issue up. All on deck and in the aft end of the ship deserve praise and recognition for possibly saving their ship. Valiant damage control personnel and pilots were lost because of the bomb's instability. That issue was never pursued as it should have been.
There were believe to have been several factors after the missle launch that compounded the damage and those as well had nothing to do with McCain nor anyone on the ship's actions for that matter.
People don't get it. You can dislike, despise,& loath, McCain's actions as a U.S. Senator but a persons damages their own posting reputation buying into and fueling the nonsense he started that fire.
I've seen a lost posted in here the past few days about McCain including his POW behavior. Other officers including the senior officer in captivity say otherwise. I found an old 2008 thread last night of senior officers who endorsed McCain in 2008. I know for 100% certainty at least one was a POW where McCain was and a senior officer to him. I served under that officer when I enlisted Post Nam Navy. In that respect because of his endorsement of McCain I seriously doubt the scuttlebutt accusations about McCain's behavior as a POW as well.
I think McCain's injuries from being shot down and the treatment and lack thereof in captivity have caused him judgement issues. That said I wish him a fast retirement from the Senate. I never voted for McCain because of his senate record that alone was plenty for for me to vote Independent.
There were a number of bombs that went high order in the fire, five I think as well as other ordnance. The bombs were all of old vintage (WWII) and didn't have the stability of the newer bombs in a fire. So, which bomb went off first and where it came from becomes an issue of chronology more than issue of effect.
I'm sorry that Fred White didn't get the coverage he deserved and I am glad you cleared that issue up. All on deck and in the aft end of the ship deserve praise and recognition for possibly saving their ship. Valiant damage control personnel and pilots were lost because of the bomb's instability. That issue was never pursued as it should have been.
DITTO ALL THAT!!!!
You are messed up...here.
Noted............
Well.....if you think the military isn’t political..you aren’t thinking critically.
Always have.....
That said...I've a different opinion.
FRegards!!
Where did that come from?
McCain haters won't like it because the book's account is based on historical fact and US Navy records.
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