Posted on 06/27/2015 8:12:51 AM PDT by Uncle Sham
As always, this was a fun debate! I’m moving on now to celebrate the 4th.
Take good care and Happy Independence Day to you and yours.
This term, ad hominem, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
‘Ad Hominem: ADVERB and ADJECTIVE
(of an argument or reaction) arising from or appealing to the emotions and not reason or logic.
relating to or associated with a particular person:
“the office was created ad hominem for Fenton”’
The above characterizes neither of the comments you cited.
The examples you gave of the hacks opposing Obama were pretty weak. Did any of those pols block any of Obama’s radical leftist nominees? Did they succeed in defeating any of his devastating (for the country) legislation?
That is what the ‘political opposition’ does, NG. It actually opposes the person or party in power.
These words have definitions, NG. You can either use them as they are typically used, which facilitates comunication, or you can go full on liberal, and claim they mean whatever you want them to mean.
Good googly Miss Molly, NG; ‘mother of all Obots’ doesn’t begin to describe you. I’ve met some dedicated Obots in my day, but you trump them all. Your whole life must be dedicated to defending Obama. Me , I don’t think you should be paid for it, since you reason too much like a liberal to actually change anybody’s mind on a conservative site. Still it’s amazing you’re so devoted to a pathological liar. The letdown for you in ‘16 will likely be pretty rough.
“If the Original document was filled out by Grandma Madelyn, then it may very well contain the same information, but it’s credibility becomes much more greatly suspect.”
So are saying grandma Dunham went into the DOH and told them she wanted to register a birth that occurred at Kapiolani Hospital?
“Again I remind you that I have been adopted and have two birth certificates, the second one filled with non-true information.”
Is the place of birth the same for both BCs?
“Again I remind you that there is quite a lot of evidence to indicate Obama was also adopted, and so his original document has very likely been replaced with a certificate altered by judicial process.”
What evidence is there of an adoption?
Why does Obama’s supposedly authentic LFBC list as Stanley Ann’s ‘home’ address a residence at which neither she nor Little Barry ever lived, even briefly?
Here’s another question for you. If this supposedly authentic BC can list a fake home address, why can’t it list a fake place of birth?
According to the 1961/1962 Polk Directory, the Dunham’s lived at 6085 Kalanianaole Highway. There is also a listing for Ann S. Obama at the same address. That is the same address as on the birth certificate and in the newspaper birth announcements. There is also listing for Barack Obama at a different address (625 11th Avenue).
His parents never lived together as theirs was a marriage of convenience.
David Maraniss intervued an actual resident of 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, who unequivocally stated SAD never lived there, and did not bring a baby home from the hospital to that address. There is no other witness or evidence of any kind that either SAD or Little Barry ever lived there. Regardless of what is listed in Polk, an actual resident of the house has more actual knowledge and eyewitness credibility.
Maraniss found the eyewitness very credible, btw, and he is a leftist liberal major-Obama-fan, so you can rule out the possibility of the party lying simply to make Obama look bad.
It’s the difference between a directory printed in 1961/1962 and someone’s 50 year old memory.
So in your world Polk is inerrant, without the possibility of a mistake or mislisting. At the same time you find it perfectly credible that a person would ‘just forget’ that a hugely pregnant young woman had lived in the same house she lived in, and would have zero recollection of a young single woman bringing a mixed race newborn home from the hospital.
This is why I could never be in the camp that attempts to prop up Obama’s lies. I can’t get down into that level of irrationality.
“The Pratt family had escaped from their cramped Waikiki apartment by then and rented a house ten miles out of town on Kalanianaole Highway on the way toward the south shore. ...with no place of his own when he arrived, Stan sublet a part of the house from the Pratts that had it’s own bedroom, bath, side door and hallway. Madelyn had to close down the Mercer Island house ...she and her daughter stayed on the mainland for part of the summer before joining Stan in Hawaii. To young Cindy Pratt these backroom tenants were the oddest people she had ever seen. Stan, she thought wore baggy suits that never fit him. His wife seemed withdrawn. And then there was this bookish young woman, a freshman at the University of Hawaii, Who lived with them and had such a peculiar first name.”
And
“The Pratt family was still there, the daughter, said she had no memory of the Dunham’s daughter bring an infant home.”
So there is no question that SAD lived at the Kalanianaole address and verifies the Polk entry.
Cindy Pratt was about 13 years old in 1961.
I don’t find it all that strange that her parents and the Dunhams would have tried to keep the news of the teenage pregnancy quiet from the Pratt’s thirteen year old daughter.
Sorry forgot the link to GoogleBooks
You've missed a few sessions where this stuff has been previously discussed. The Laws of Hawaii allow up to a year for an at home or unattended birth to be examined by a Physician. After the Physician examines the child, he goes on the birth certificate as the delivering Physician and wherever he works out of goes on the document as the Hospital of Delivery.
Yes, but Hawaii is a weird state. Probably no other state will issue birth certificates to children not born there. Hawaii will.
What evidence is there of an adoption?
I've compiled these repeatedly and presented them repeatedly. I no longer know where the links are to prove each one, but perhaps you'll take my word for it. My recollection is there are seven pieces of evidence that Obama was adopted. I'll see if I can remember them all.
1. 1970s divorce papers from Lolo Soetero Identifies a minor of Barack Obama's age as a dependent of Lolo Soetoro, who is claimed to be financially liable for him.
2. His sister Maya said he was adopted.
3. Laws of Indonesia at the time regarded any child under five years old as automatically adopted at the time of marriage to the mother.
4.Roster at that Indonesian school identifies him as Barack Soetoro.
5. Application for passport identifies him as Barack Soebarka , Which has been explained to me is Indonesian and means "son of" Soetoro.
6. Application for Lolo Soetoro to remain in the country identifies Barack as his child.
7. I forget.
It isn't worth the trouble to wade back through my old postings to get all the bits, but there's enough to give a reasonable man pause.
Glad to see you accept Maraniss as a source. You cut the quote off very conveniently, though. Try it this way:
“Maraniss hints at where home was not — namely, the residence her parents shared with the Pratt family at 6085 Kalanianole Highway, the address listed on the birth certificate. As Maraniss relates, the Pratt daughter, then an adolescent, “has no memory of the Dunhams’ daughter bringing an infant home.” He adds, “[Ann] and Obama and the infant never lived [at 6085 Kalanianole].”’
Also, Polk lists SAD as a student. Are you contending that she attended classes while pregnant? After all, you put such stock in Poll’s accuracy.
(Above quote from:
American Thinket
June 22, 2012
Maraniss Bio Deepens Obama Birth Mystery
By Jack Cashill)
So you’re saying the Pratts and the Dunhams, plus SAD, could share a four bedroom house throughout SAD’s pregnancy without Cindy, a teen, ever noticing SAD’s condition. And that SAD could go to the hospital and come home with a newborn and Cindy wouldn’t notice. (In pro-Obama-land, as a baby, he never cried?)
Do you have a source to back the theory that the reason Cindy doesn’t remember Little Barry is because she was “shielded”?
Why wouldn’t Cindy, in hindsight, have mentioned she was ‘shielded’? Why wouldn’t Maraniss have included that in his book?
First, we don’t know when the Polk Directory takes its survey but since she is listed as Obama it was after the February marriage. The fact that the Polk Directory lists her Obama at that address makes it less likely to be an error.
She didn’t attend the University during the spring semester but why wouldn’t she still consider herself a student? She certainly intended to continue.
Maraniss gives the impression that he thought they were living at Obama Sr’s place “1704 Punahou Street, apartment 15”. And that is the basis of his statement “[b]ut she and Obama and the infant never lived there.” Personally I don’t think they ever lived together.
When would the pregnancy been obvious? Do some women show less than others? Dunham bragged to her Mercer Island friends that she was wearing “shorts and muumuus everywhere.” Did a loose fitting muumuu hide the pregnancy? Was Cindy too involved with her own school stuff to pay much attention? How much interaction was there between the Pratts and the Dunhams at 6085? Do some babies cry less then others? Was the configuration of the house such that the baby’s crying couldn’t be heard in the front of the house? Does Cindy’s older brother remember SAD and an infant?
I don’t know and neither do you. We are both engaging in speculation.
But the point of all this is that SAD and her parents lived at 6085 Kalaniaoli Highway just prior to her giving birth. That is incontrovertible. The fact she used her parents’ address as her own is trivial. She did the same thing for many of her passport applications.
As for Cindy being shielded - do you really think that in 1961 a out-of-wedlock pregnancy was talked about to young girls?
As for why it doesn’t appear in the book - maybe Maraniss or his editor didn’t think it was important enough to include.
BTW, Cindy also doesn’t say that SAD went to Kenya or Canada or anywhere else. In fact she doesn’t mention SAD moving out at all. Which of course doesn’t mean anything because we don’t have access to her complete interview.
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