Posted on 04/21/2015 4:10:39 PM PDT by presidio9
Edited on 04/21/2015 4:31:18 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
In the category of
(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...
despite the overwhelming evidence that they were afraid?
Have you ever been in such a situation that you can say you would do otherwise?
I'm not talking about Ukraine, "Astonia" etc., i'm talking about Poland -- what would YOU do? I find it incredible that someone living 70 years later in a free country who has never experienced this kind of hell would say "Oh, you and your family could be killed if discovered helping a Jew, but you should still help them." -- many DID help, but have you been in such a position that you could condemn those who didn't help?
No, he never said anything about "evacuating the Jews" -- he wanted them as well as the Poles EXTERMINATED, KILLED, DEAD
Note that I said he also wanted to do the same to the Poles and did start on that
What, exactly, are you looking for? Do you want the Poles of today to be punished? You seem very determined to establish some sort of blame to Polish name. I would really like to know the source of your animus toward Poland.
To evidence my opinion that more than just Nazi’s opposed the Jews....here are just some historical facts:
February 29 1936
Cardinal Hlond, the head of the Polish Catholic Church, considered less antisemitic than many Polish clergy and a careful follower of Vatican policy, issues a pastoral letter advocating discrimination against Polish Jews “so long as they remain Jews.””
He writes that Polish Catholics “ought to fence themselves off against the Jews’ harmful moral influence of Jewry” and “ought to separate themselves from its anti-Christian culture.”.... He states that Polish Catholics “ought to boycott the Jewish press” and other “demoralizing Jewish publications,” although “Catholics should not assault Jews.”
March 1936
Anti-Jewish programs occur in Poland. Polish Cardinal Hlond speaks out against Jewish “usury, fraud, and white slavery.”
1937....Adolf Eichmann, visits Palestine to investigate ‘the feasibility of mass ‘deportations’ of German Jews’ to that area.
Poland investigates the possibility of ‘deporting’ resident Jews to Madagascar.
April 5 1938
Anti-Jewish riots spread across Poland.
April 15 1938
Jews are killed and injured during an antisemitic pogrom at Dabrowa Tarnowska, Poland.
May 29 1938
Hungary adopts its first law restricting the rights of Jews. Hungary restricts the proportion of Jews holding jobs in commerce, industry, the liberal professions, and the Hungarian government to 20 percent.
July 1938
Under a proposal called the Sosua Project, the Dominican Republic offers ‘to accept 100,000 European Jewish refugees,’ to be settled in an area near Santo Domingo, in return for payment of millions of dollars from the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (JDC). (Under the plan, only about 500 Jews will be admitted to the Dominican Republic before the country halts immigration in 1940.)
July 6-14 1938
An international conference at Evian-les-Bains, France, is called by United States President Franklin Roosevelt to deal with the Jewish refugee problem. Roosevelt’s aims, some say, are to deflect American Jewish appeals to help the German Jews. Aside from Costa Rica and the Dominican Republic, which want enormous sums of money to allow a small number of Jews to immigrate, the 32 nations attending the conference decide that they will not permit large numbers of Jews to enter their countries.
July 25 1938
American radio broadcaster ‘Father Charles Coughlin’ calls for the establishment of an American Christian Front to combat Communists and Jews..... The Christian Front, which will come to fruition, will consist of mostly working-class Irish and German Americans..... The organization will adhere to the beliefs that America is a Christian nation and that Catholics should march along with Protestants in a united Christian Front ‘against the Jews’.
August 18 1938
The Swiss government denies entry to Jews. However, Paul Grüninger, local police commandant of St. Gall on the Austrian frontier, disobeys his superiors and allows 3600 Jews to pass the border from August through December 1938.
October 1938
The Polish government revokes passports of all Jews who have lived outside of Poland for more than five years, ‘rendering them stateless’.
Civiltá Cattolica,... the foremost ‘Jesuit journal’,... which is published in Rome and ‘controlled by the Vatican’, calls Judaism sinister and accuses Jews of trying to control the world through money and secularism.... The journal says that the devil is the Jews’ master;... Judaism is evil and “a standing menace to the world.”
October 28 1938
Germany expels Jews with Polish citizenship to the Polish border. ...’Poles refuse to admit them’....Germans refuse to allow them back into Germany.....17,000 Jews are stranded in the frontier town of Zbaszyn, Poland.
Let's take these 1 by 1:
Cardinal Hlond of the Catholic Church in January 1938 made a in which he was quoted as branding anti-Semitic outbreaks as “the criminal action of political plotters, who by attacking Jews fight the government.”
He also in his statements against Jews state that “not all the Jews are, however, like that... it is inadmissible to assault, hit, or injure the Jews.”
legislation in 1938, stripping Poles who had emigrated after 1919 of their nationality if they had not returned to Poland for 5 years without having visited Poland even once, “would have lost their connection to the Polish nation”, and thus should be given the possibility to “revoke the the citizenship”I would urge you to please READ something instead of randomly copying half-truths from some site. This is like the diatribes against Catholicism in your earlier posts, and just like those, I've proved them half-truths at best
Polish citizens residing in these countries were called to report to the respective Polish consulates presenting their passports for renewal and duly warned that non-show by the deadline October 30, 1938 would mean that their Polish passport would be invalidated and its holder considered stateless and will lose his/her right to enter Poland. Some Polish citizens living in Germany and Austria, Jews or not, went and had their passports renewed. Some didn’t and became stateless. Jews of Polish origin residing in Germany who did not renew their Polish passports and had their residents permit in Germany revoked became both stateless and illegal residents in Germany
The Polish decree referred to all Polish citizens of all faiths and ethnic groups.
The Jews of Polish origins that were expelled were not a “newly additional population” at all, most of them were Jews who had lived in Germany for decades and have been living in Germany since long before WWI.
you DO realise that POland did not exist before WWI? It was eradicated between 1791 and 1918?
My father, who was Polish, who lost his mother, father and brother in the war, was always infuriated when reporters would refer to "Polish death camps."
I don't fault him. My great-uncle was a Jesuit priest was imprisoned by the gestapo at the start of the invasion and was freed on liberation day. To me, most of the Poles were heroes.
For heavens sake, they were German, Nazi death camps located in Poland.
Yes, they were. We will never know the names of all the Poles who disguised and hid Jews to protect them from the Nazis.
God help us.
then after I showed you overwhelming evidence that your statement was wrong, you change it to post 77 I really don’t care to get into what the Vatican did or didn’t do
If you don't care about this, why make that false statement?
The Israeli Consul to Italy after the war, Rabbi Pinchas Lapide, credited the Holy See with directly saving 860,000 Jewish lives. When he died, Pius XII was eulogized by Golda Meir on the floor of the UN General Assembly. I guess you know more than she did about who did and didn't oppose the Holocaust?
The Good Samaritan: Jewish Praise for Pius XII
Even the Wikipedia article is far more balanced.
It contains the following reaction by leading Nazi Reinhard Heydrich to Pope Pius XII's Christmas address of 1942:
In a manner never known before, the Pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order. His radio allocution was a masterpiece of clerical falsification of the National Socialist Weltanschauung...the Pope does not refer to the National Socialists in Germany by name, but his speech is one long attack on everything we stand for...God, he says, regards all peoples and races as worthy of the same consideration. Here he is clearly speaking on behalf of the Jews...That this speech is directed exclusively against the New Order in Europe as seen in National Socialism is clear in the papal statement that mankind owes a debt to 'all who during the war have lost their Fatherland and who, although personally blameless have, simply on account of their nationality and origin, been killed or reduced to utter destitution.' Here he is virtually accusing the German people of injustice towards the Jews, and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals.Do you really want to claim that the Nazis didn't know exactly where they stood with Pius XII, and somehow him "speaking out" would have accomplished something worthwhile? Seriously?
Incidentally, the whole "Pius XII acquiesced to the Holocaust" lie was a fabrication by the KGB.
Amen.
To Caww — a reminder, this starts with your post 26 “don’t play down...” — this debate we are having is about the fact that no-one is playing down that some Poles were despicable people who perpetrated violence against Jews, but what IS wrong is to blame all Poles of that generation for what the Nazi Germans did
I will say it again: You've got the wrong guy, bro.
Also, you're changing your own tune. Earlier in this conversation you were suggesting that the Pols in general didn't do enough to put a stop to the camps.
Thank you for your fine work on this thread. I learned quite a bit from reading it.
Putting up with ignorant D-bags like the one we have been talking to are the primary reason why I stopped visiting this site regularly.
Trailer for the movie “In Darkness”, a very good film about the times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb2TyPfxaQU
I’m not singling out any one nation or persons.....if you read previous posts I clarified that there were plenty who assisted the Nazi’s.....the Pols were not exempt anymore than others, though some were certainly more inclined to help the JEws howeer they could. ....Poland was overcome in a month by the Nazi’s...the resistant groups didn’t happen until after that.
When it comes to the camps themselves....indeed there was precious little if anything done about these or they would not have continued ‘to multiply’ throughout Poland Germany and the others....more than one camp had multiple sub-camps.
...and you just did it again. Is English your first language?
As to your point about "there was precious little if anything done about these or they would not have continued ‘to multiply’ throughout Poland," as others on this thread have made abundantly clear: The Nazis built a lot of camps in Poland for the simple reason that a majority of Jews were living in Poland at the time of the war. Why was that? Because Poland had a long history of relative tolerance and even welcoming of Jewish people.
It has become increasingly clear over the course of this thread that you are very far out of your league, in terms of knowledge of this subject matter. I don't want to put words in your mouth, or make assumptions, but long experience with FR has made me suspect what happened here: You attempted to make an intelligent point in good faith. When the facts were presented, it turned out to be entirely wrong. Now, in attempt to save face, you are backpedaling and modifying your original position. To all of this, I can only quote the words of that great Jewish American Mickey Goldmill:
"Stay Down Rock! Stay Down!!!"
Not even bothering to read your posts now so you might as well stop posting. You appear to want a fight and I’m not going to dance to your drum......since you won’t knock it off...I will.
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