Posted on 02/24/2015 6:51:00 PM PST by tcrlaf
To your credit, you do not devolve to the level of others with like views.
But the latter of which you refer to was not what you claim it to be.
Every Russian kid knows this story. I wonder how many West Point grads know it.
From the Russian perspective, it is waves upon waves of Zombies coming from the West - be it Vatican-inspired Swedes, Napoleon, French-British or Hitler, it starts the same way (sustained heavy Russian losses), and ends the same way - by the total annihilation of the invaders. Ruskies' moves are predictable. They fight on their soil and they will not allow another 20 million Russians be murdered by the new Nazis. They will use nukes. First strike, retaliatory, does not matter, it will be equally bad for everyone.
The question is - what is the end game? Mutual joint destruction of U.S.A. and Russia, like taken from James Bond movie? It looks more and more probable with every passing day.
‘’The Ukraine’’ but as “Ukraine’’
That’s not political. There are no definitive articles in the Russian language. Its like if a taxi driver says “I will take you airport”. In their language, that is exactly how it should sound.
That’s why “the Ukraine” is an odd western term. Nobody over there on either side uses it.
Nobody is invading Russia, Russia is the one invading.
That’s really off base. The Russians are simply paranoid and actually think the west will invade them every few decades. They even think NATO is trying to surround them.
Lord only knows where they get such crazy ideas.
I've been saying that too, but as I think about it, I believe there's even more to it. Ukraine's military was heavily infiltrated by Russia, and I'm pretty much willing to bet that any purges that were done were not nearly thorough enough, because, of course, the political leadership is NOT a bunch of disciplined ultra-nationalist Nazis, it is (mostly) a bunch of corrupted businessmen. Anyone not wishing to be purged simply had to come up with a little money, most likely.
Take roughly equal parts incompetent (to the task) leaders, moles and subversives, fresh recruits, some decent troops (they have won SOME battles, after all), weapons that are likely to blow up in one's face or just not work at all, and a West either weak or desirous of a bloody drawn out conflict, or both, and stir well...
Russia on the other hand is sending in relatively modern / competent arms, and men with (especially after the airliner downing) a competent and uncompromised (for the most part) command structure.
On the other hand Ukraine now has veteran field officers who have earned the respect of their men on battlefields. Perhaps it is time for them to just kick away most of the incompetent General Staff and promote these men with some extra training.
“but you are fanatical about posting to me in behalf of others, and just repeating your straw man clichés”
I don’t care for bullies. I was always the guy picking up the 2x4 when the geeks were being picked on, even if I didn’t want to.
And you are a bully, as well evidenced by your posts, which attack anyone that dares to think for themselves.
“Ukraine’s military was heavily infiltrated by Russia”
Much of Ukraine’s officer corps is Soviet-trained. Not Russian, but Soviet, brought up in a declining and corrupted Soviet system. When the Soviet Union fell, they were left without leadership, or paychecks, in what became the third most corrupt nation on the planet.
Left to fend for themselves, many became arms merchants, or engaged in other corruptions. Ukraine’s pols never attempted to reform the military, content to take their cut of the corruption money.
Oh, good grief. Ukraine could not even keep a law making Ukrainian the language of official gov’t business on the books long enough for the ink to dry. (They rolled it back because it might offend somebody!) The idea that Ukrainian “Nazis” (who did not even end up with any power to speak of) were about to murder 20 million Russians is beyond paranoia. But apparently it was sufficient pretext to invade Ukraine.
As for the end game, there will be no nukes now. The West will likely aid Ukraine just enough to make sure Ukraine’s defense industries in the East (Putin’s #1 goal, I suspect) are destroyed, except for whatever Putin’s men can cart back to Russia*. Eastern Ukraine likely ends up as a once again devastated Russian satellite for all intents and purposes, and Central & Western Ukraine may end up in NATO. If Ukraine could follow the example of Estonia, it could become relatively well off, economically speaking.
In a generation or so, this (the Obama led crumbling of the post cold war security structure) will likely result in nuclear war. But I’d only give a 20% chance that war will start in Eastern Europe.
I actually agree with most of that, but, none the less, Ukraine’s military establishment remains badly compromised by Russia. I’d guess at least 5% of the officers of Major rank or higher are out and out (in one form or another) agents of Putin, and probably more than that simply work for the highest bidder, which in this case is again Mr. Putin. It could be worse for Ukraine - at the outset, at least 1 in 3 were likely more loyal to Moscow than Kiev.
*I believe this is why Putin agrees to cease fires - he can claim to try to be negotiating and this gives his men more time to cart stuff back to Russia.
It looks like the Russians were giving the rebels more than that (not that it’s really been a secret):
https://twitter.com/IlvesToomas/status/569753750996426754
(Russian media admits that regular Russian troops took Debaltseve)
and
http://www.examiner.com/article/russian-media-admits-that-regular-russian-troops-took-debaltseve
and
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2671088
I have nothing but respect for my southern brothers in arms, but I still can’t allow a untruthful statement just fly by. However, it’s apples and oranges anyways.
That man did well.
I’m more concerned with people rolling over and letting dictatorship take over with not so much as a whimper in reply.
Yeah I didn’t want to let your insult of the American fighting man pass, I didn’t realize that you came from the country that has only a tiny percentage of people willing to serve in the military and lacks the warrior mindset of America, and has to depend on America for your defense.
I defend Americans to my fellow Canadians. I tell them to thank an American for their work in keeping a nuclear deterrent going during the cold war. I value my southern neighbors, so you’re barking up the wrong tree.
To put things in perspective, when I left 2PPCLI, I had 36 qualifications. That pales to the four needed to go spec ops in the US. I’m far more qualified. That’s not to say some guys can’t get there, but we have fewer numbers and therefor we cross train more. It’s that way in most commonwealth countries.
As for the warrior mindset, damn straights we have it. Maybe not in Toronto or Vancouver, but in general there is a reason they call us the Texas of the north here in Alberta.
I’m ready and willing to stand up when you are. I’m just waiting for people with guts and determination to say enough is enough.
American soldiers are above average, and Canadians don't like to serve in the military, and by living next to America, you guys get to indulge that luxury of the protected.
“I’m more concerned with people rolling over and letting dictatorship take over with not so much as a whimper in reply.”
This x 100.
I enjoy reading other posters thoughts regarding international conflicts to hopefully learn. But at the end of the day, what you posted is so far ahead of what we need to worry about it’s not even debatable. Regardless of how great and mighty the US Military is (and this won’t last too due to forced change), ALL MEN are allowing our Country to devolve into a potential Second World cesspool.
All of our military might has not stopped the corruption, evil, forced social/cultural change that is happening on our soil at a turbo charged pace.
“I’m just waiting for people with guts and determination to say enough is enough.”
we better hurry before its too late. I’m pessimistic due to the fact that I see too much complacency and denial from those that should know better. If one would question his peers/neighbors/work associates even in small town America, and listen, I don’t see how one could be optimistic. Just because a guy watches Fox News doesn’t mean he has a clue. He just means well and is being spoon fed some truth, but nowhere enough needed.
Sure, some know exactly what’s going on and why, and some are waking up to the fact. But there is still a huge fraction that are oblivious, smug, too busy, naïve etc. And that is INEXCUSABLE today due to a gold mine in TRUTH that can be found on the internet like here at FR among others.
People don’t want to face reality. They’d rather watch their football, or their UFC fights, or just buy toys and go play. Nobody takes freedom seriously anymore. I weep when I see what the US and Canada have done with the gift our WW2 vets have given us.
We have allowed this. I don’t blame government, I don’t blame liberals, I don’t blame moslems. We have allowed this.
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