Posted on 02/02/2015 4:21:34 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Republican Sen. Rand Paul is standing by his statement that most vaccinations should be "voluntary," telling CNBC that a parent's choice not to vaccinate a child is "an issue of freedom."
In an interview with the network Monday, Paul said that vaccines are "a good thing" but that parents "should have some input" into whether or not their children must get them.
And he gave credence to the idea - disputed by the majority of the scientific community - that vaccination can lead to mental disabilities.
"I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," he said.
Wakefield Article Linking MMR Vaccine and Autism Was Fraudulent
Most people quit parroting narratives when they're disproven, but you seem to want to double down.
We're not in a situation where the government should force the needle into anyone's arm.
However, I'm not so ignorant or immature to pretend that such extreme circumstances will never be necessary. Smallpox may have been one such circumstance, considering that it killed between 300-500 million people during the 20th century. I'm fine to leave the eradication of smallpox as a victory for mankind. Let's hope we never face a similar situation in the future.
No you are obviously a TROLL. I showed you not my own words but the United States Center For Disease Controls list of Side Effects which BTW other Vaccines have serious side effects as well. The Most Serious MMR Vaccine isnn’t proven nor have the listings actually been completely disproven YET on MMR! One mans paper being Fraud doesn’t make it all the fact you claim in being safe. More study including a re-do on how the vaccines are dispensed needs to be studied and tested.
Right, the list of unproven reported side effects in less than 1 in 1 million doses. Like I said, that is what is called "statistically insignificant". In other words, the possibilities are so rare and remote that no serious person would bypass the benefits because of those statistically irrelevant risks.
One mans paper being Fraud doesn’t make it all the fact you claim in being safe.
On the contrary, the "one man's paper" is what caused people to believe in the fraud to begin with. Wakefield's claims have been proven false, and we now have the entirety of scientific evidence and research that shows there is no link, and never was. You might as well claim vaccines cause pregnancy, as there's equal evidence for both.
More study including a re-do on how the vaccines are dispensed needs to be studied and tested.
This has been done, and to do date there is ZERO evidence linking autism to vaccines. You are years behind on the current evidence.
Two points:
First, given that property taxes are pretty much mandatory and once you’ve paid them you’ve already financed your child’s early education, it’s coercive to then require vaccinations for public school. I don’t disagree that every child should be vaccinated (barring certain health conditions I suppose), but until very recently we managed to accomplish a very high vaccination rate in non-coercive ways (public education, doctors’ recommendations, etc.) Now if vouchers are freely available so one can leave the public schools without suffering a relatively severe financial penalty, that’s a different story. For example, I would have no problem with a private school establishing a policy of mandatory vaccination. That’s a private matter, not a government one.
Second, doctors do view autism as a form of mental illness. He could have been more specific, or at least spoke with more sensitivity, but it’s quite likely that they’ll eventually learn that certain combinations of vaccines do trigger neurological illnesses, including mental ones, in some children. Someone linked to a remarkable admission by a researcher in one of these vaccine threads in which he admitted that they left out the information learned from a study that MMR vaccines have been found to trigger autism in black children, for example. All of the stories that parents have of raising perfectly normal children until just a few days or weeks after vaccination are going to be found to have some scientific justification eventually, in my opinion.
It's up to the state governments. Under well-established precedents in constitutional law, going back well into the 1800's per the SCOTUS, vaccination and quarantine regulations are matters of "police power" at the state level. The law is absolutely settled.
>> What if someone thinks the CDC schedule is a little too much, or wants to delay some of it. What if it is made with fetal cells that I find morally objectionable? <<
It's not a matter of federal jurisdiction. CDC has no power to enforce vaccinations or quarantines. What you'll need to do is to move from a "vaccination-required" state, like Mississippi (the highest rate of measles vaccination) to a "vaccination-maybe" state, like California.
>> You put the billy club in the state's hand <<
And since when, in our federal system, have the states not had police power that allows them to coerce people when an epidemic disease threatens? They've had that billy club for well more than 100 years.
>> sooner or later you will find yourself at the business end of it <<
Your metaphorical billy club? Been there, done that. I was subject to a state-imposed quarantine in 1946 when I had scarlet fever, during a period when a couple of other kids in my neighborhood were diagnosed with polio. No complaints from me or my parents. And in fact, I survived OK.
Rand Paul is an anarchist and a nutcase.
“Oh, those big bad evil corporations selling autism causing drugs for corporate profits!”
They wouldn’t use those words. They would say things like the general good, herd immunity, financial viability for the third world, acceptable losses, unconfirmed cases, preexisting conditions, etc. And they would vigorously defend its safety through their lobbyists, their lawyers, their scientists and their board members in other organizations.
The Amish do not believe in vaccines.
******************************************
Oddly, the Amish also have almost no Autism cases.
There have been 3 verified cases of autism in the Amish, and two of those children were vaccinated. No information is available for the third child, who was likely vaccinated himself.
Coercive is subjective. Requiring basic health and safety standards for a public school isn't coercive if they're backed by evidence. If your child isn't vaccinated, they're at risk of starting an outbreak. The lessons of the measles outbreak this year that has spread to 14 states should be clear. Anti-vaccination advocates are a threat to public health.
You don't want to vaccinate your kids? Fine, keep them home and out of public places. And you're going to still pay property taxes too, so too bad. We don't (or shouldn't) base public policy on hysteria or irrational fears.
Second, this is 2015, 17 years after the original fraudulent claims of Wakefield between autism and vaccines. There is simply no excuse for you to be this ignorant, and to be parroting completely debunked claims. Everything you said in your paragraph is wrong, and based on faulty, unproven conjecture and thoroughly disproven fraud.
"I heard from a guy" anecdotes, hearsay, psychic predictions about future findings, and clairvoyance are not evidence.
It doesn't matter what your opinion is about what we'll find. Your opinion has isn't based on any evidence in the real world.
Dan Olmstead's claims about "no Amish autism" have been debunked.
The Amish do vaccinate, and they do have autism:
“The idea that the Amish do not vaccinate their children is untrue,” says Dr. Kevin Strauss, MD, a pediatrician at the CSC. “We run a weekly vaccination clinic and it’s very busy.” He says Amish vaccinations rates are lower than the general population’s, but younger Amish are more likely to be vaccinated than older generations.
Strauss also sees plenty of Amish children showing symptoms of autism. “Autism isn’t a diagnosis – it’s a description of behavior. We see autistic behaviors along with seizure disorders or mental retardation or a genetic disorder, where the autism is part of a more complicated clinical spectrum.” Fragile X syndrome and Rett Syndrome is also common among the clinic’s patients.
Strauss, along with Dr. D. Holmes Morton, MD, authored a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine which described a mysterious seizure disorder that resulted in mental retardation and autistic behavior in nine Amish children. The study was published one year after Olmsted’s mythic voyage, so it would seem a story correction would be in order.
It is time for vaccination processes to get better. Take out the risky elements, and screen kis at risk before getting the vaccine.
Screening can restore parents’ trust.
There are vaccine caused problems. First, do no harm.
(Vaccines have also saved many lives. They are a clear public good, now we need to make them a clear individual good.)
Those who are against children’s vaccines usually suspect the following ingredients that they say might be causing the growing autism epidemic: Thimerosal, Mercury, Aluminum.
Researchers and doctors counter that ingredients like Thimerosal has never been shown to harm children or cause autism, it is never used in children’s vaccines – except for multidose vials of flu vaccine, which are rarely used by children’s doctors.
Dan Olmstead’s claims about “no Amish autism” have been debunked.
*************************************
I didn’t say “no Autism”, I said “almost no autism”
I also didn’t say that none of them vaccinated. However, they do have a large part of their population that is not vaccinated, and that makes them an important control group.
Plus, since your quoting Dr. Strauss, lets get the whole quote.
Strauss said the clinic treats “syndromic autism”, where autism as part of a more complicated clinical spectrum that can include mental retardation, chromosomal abnormalities, unusual facial features, and short stature, as well as Fragile X syndrome.
Strauss says he doesn’t see “idiopathic autism” at the clinic, which he defines as children with average or above average IQs who display autistic behavior. “My personal experience is we don’t see a lot of Amish children with idiopathic autism. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist, only that we aren’t seeing them at the clinic.”
So, even he says that he doesn’t see the classic autism we have all come to know.
Funny that anti-vaxxers tend to come from the left and Hollyweird types; Oprah, Jenny McCarty, RFK Jr., Bill Maher. It's strange to see Freepers repeating completely debunked and disproven claims from a fraudster. It's also dangerous to public health, as this latest measles outbreak shows.
25-30 years ago, about 1 child in 5000 was diagnosed with autism. Today it’s 1 in 68.
In 2000, the CDC declared measles eradicated in America. Now, it’s of such magnitude that they’re pushing a vaccine against it and trying to force it on everyone. (Does that include the Amish and Christian Scientists?)
Something we’re doing changed those numbers for the worse.
Do you suffer from permanent brain damage?
What does Bob Corker have to do with anything?
They want you back at InfoWars. Is the vaccine conspiracy tied to the WTC controlled demolition?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.