Posted on 01/28/2015 10:42:11 AM PST by keat
Spel gud. Pun about Altar/Alter Boys missed.
I have a major problem with all things having to do with ‘God’s message of salvation’ being massaged by way of ‘inclusive” ideologies.
Really? Because your namesake probably would have.
You may call my views “protestant” if you like as opposed to discussing the facts and you may put me down all you like.
However, I think my views are even more traditional than yours. As the Pope himself correctly noted, married priests were the norm in early Church history. Compulsory clerical celibacy was introduced centuries later and for reasons which had nothing to do with anything which can be found in the Bible. The policy was introduced to primarily to fight corruption within the Church, specifically nepotism and simony.
Our parish is a Dominican priory, so we often have a preacher (in black robe), who reads the Gospel and gives the homily, in addition to the priest who offers the Mass. They don’t usually concelebrate, but after the Agnus Dei, a second priest will come out from the sacristy to assist with distribution of Holy Communion. One priest on each rail. Occasionally, a priest will have to do it himself, but even then, the altar rails (and distributing under only one kind), keep things moving pretty well.
Sometimes there are Masses in the ancient Dominican Rite. Absolutely wonderful!
Yes. I am.
Sounds like you and the Pope might not be on the same page then.
Married priests were common in the early centuries, but were never the norm. Priestly celibacy in the West became the legal norm no later than the 4th century, in recognition of a practical norm that was believed at the time to date to the original Apostles. Moreover, sexual continence was expected within priestly marriages.
I would not rely on Pope Francis in this, as he has justly earned his reputation for careless, ill-considered speech.
According to Wikipedia.com (clerical celibacy):
“The tenth century is claimed to be the high point of clerical marriage in the Latin communion (Catholic Church). Most rural priests were married and many urban clergy and bishops had wives and children”
As for the reason why the need for compulsory clerical celibacy, the article further states:
“...a large number of clergy, not only priests but bishops, openly took wives and begot children to whom they transmitted their benefices...”
Regarding the Pope. I agree he’s a socialist and I wish they’d bring Pope Benedict XVI back out of retirement. However, Pope Francis made three observations about clerical celibacy which are entirely correct:
1) The policy is a discipline of the Church, not a dogma or doctrine.
2) The policy was implemented many centuries after the founding of the Church.
3) The policy is always subject to change.
All true.
Doesn’t matter how common it was; it was a condemned abuse. You know that.
If you want to be a protestant, be a protestant. Stop sowing confusion.
I’m not sowing confusion. I’m stating the facts. Compulsory clerical celibacy was not implemented until well into the Middle Ages and for reasons unrelated to anything which can be found in the Bible. Orthodox priests are permitted to marry, so are Catholic priests in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Would you call them protestants too?
The call to celibacy has been official and binding in the Western church from at least the 4th century. Perhaps earlier. The fact that this rule was repeated and emphasized in later centuries has no bearing on the fact that it obtained from a very early time.
The quote you've lifted from a Wikipedia article is grossly out of context. In not disclosing this, you are a liar.
Orthodox priests are NOT permitted to marry. Neither are Eastern Catholic priests. No priest in any church with apostolic succession is allowed to marry.
Your posts are not accurate, and we no longer need pretend you are mistaken. You are simply dishonest, a sower of confusion and division in the Church. I will not be responding to any further posts from you.
Orthodox priests ARE permitted to be married. George Stephanopolous’s father is a Greek Orthodox priest. Most Orthodox priests are married. Marriage is even permitted in certain Catholic churches in the Middle East and Eastern Europe. It’s quite common.
Here is a quote from an article from the Los Angeles Times:
“Last week the North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation called the Vatican to lift restrictions on the ordination of married men to serve as priests in Eastern Rite Catholic churches in the United States and Canada. Eastern Rite Catholic churches recognize the authority of the pope in Rome but share their history, liturgy, and traditions with Eastern churches that do not. One such tradition is the admission of married men into the priesthood.”
Further, “...a married man in Europe could be ordained as a priest in the Byzantine Catholic Church but that clergy in the U.S. branch of the church had to be celibate.”
“...Pope Francis recently agreed to the ordination of a married man as a Maronite Catholic priest in St. Louis.”
“So married Catholic priests aren’t an abstraction. They exist and their number may be growing.”
“As Francis recently acknowledged, celibacy for the Latin Rite priests is not a dogma of faith. Therefore he said the door is always open to change.”
Source: Los Angeles Times 7/7/2014 Number of married Catholic priests may grow
It seems that the celibacy requirements are applied only selectively, and yes as the Pope himself has stated the policy is not a dogma and is subject to change.
You can’t handle the truth!!
False.
Orthodox priests ARE permitted to be married
True, but not the same thing. You are either playing a game or else too dull to get distinctions. Possibly both.
Depends on which Pope.
Good.
Regards,
Excellent post, and you are, of course entirely correct. The altar boys who serve the TLM are remarkable, and you have described them perfectly.
Full disclosure: I am the mother of two of these young men, and am extraordinarily proud of both of them.
Regards,
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