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A question for schools: Which sports teams should transgender students play on?
washingtonpost.com ^ | October 2, 2014 | Sandhya Somashekhar

Posted on 10/04/2014 3:55:10 AM PDT by ilovesarah2012

It had been a relatively quiet policy debate until the full-page ad appeared in the local newspaper. “A male wants to shower beside your 14-year-old daughter,” it said. “Are you OK with that?”

The ad, placed by a socially conservative group in Minnesota, was meant to snap attention to a proposal to allow transgender students to play on teams based on their preferred gender rather than the sex assigned to them at birth.

It appears to have worked. More than 100 community members flooded a meeting this week near Minneapolis, and thousands more sent e-mails. In response, the quasi-public body governing high school sports in Minnesota decided to delay a vote on a new policy covering sports participation by transgender students. Members of the board of directors said they needed more time to study the issue.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


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To: grania

This is a societal problem caused by sexuality being forced on children when many are too young to deal with sexual identity.

***
Exactly. It is all part of the leftists’ foul plans. The seeds that they planted after taking over the media are bearing fruit.


41 posted on 10/04/2014 7:29:17 AM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: ilovesarah2012

They are perfect at Kick-ball, that national Euroweenie sport.


42 posted on 10/04/2014 7:33:40 AM PDT by Patriot365
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To: Mr Rogers

“Humans are not fish or frogs. Point to me spontaneous changes of men into women who can produce offspring, and I’ll pay attention to you.”

First, I did not argue any point of view at all in regard to Human transgenderism. The post I replied to referenced natural biology, and I pointed out for the sake of accuracy in the discussion that there are examples of transexuality in the Nature the prior post mentioned.

Second, much of the Natural examples of transgenderism are forms of hemaphoditism, and human hermaphordites are an everyday occurrence in the Human experience. True hermaphrodites have also been known to be capable of successfully giving birth and/or inseminating. many hermaphordites use the men’s and/or the ladies restrooms without any undue notice of the public despite the arrangements of their sexual organs. So, the issue predates present day medical surgical and hormonal transsexual treatments since the beginnings of Humans.


43 posted on 10/04/2014 7:39:32 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

But we are talking high school sports here. I doubt that most of these boys calling themselves girls are actually in significant hormonal therapy.

One of my closest friends, who is a lesbian, seriously objects to sex reassignment. She’s told me that she believes God made us the sex we are and then it is our job to deal with any challenges that brings without trying to outsmart God. Smart woman.


44 posted on 10/04/2014 8:00:43 AM PDT by alphadoggie
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To: WhiskeyX

” human hermaphordites are an everyday occurrence in the Human experience”

What color is the sky in the world where you live?

Here is a hint: the overwhelming majority of transsexuals have no chromosomal problem.


45 posted on 10/04/2014 8:04:59 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: alphadoggie

Yes, the thread is talking about “high school sports”, but some of the comments assumed certain statements to be accurate when they perhaps were not accurate. when people rely upon inaccurate assumptions of fact to make decisions, they may make bad decisions not supported by the real world facts and take bad actions as a consequence of being misinformed.

For example, true hermaphrodites, while being rare, have traditionally presented a problem within societies observing a rigid division between two sexes.

In the society of ancient Sparta, the response was quite simple. The hermaphrodite newborn baby was treated like any other malformed baby with a club foot or other malady, they were exposed to the elements to die on a rock and be scavenged. The Spartan society needed male warriors and fertile women. The young males were quickly indoctrinated into institutionalized homosexuality in the military barracks and not allowed to marry a woman and produce children until after their prime military age had passed. There was no room in that society for hermaphrodites.

In more recent centuries with the rise of Christianity, the sacredness of Life, and the development of modern Medicine, hermaphrodites have more often been suffered to survive their birth and live into adulthood like everyone else.

The exceptions, however, have included medical intervention at birth to rearrange ambiguous sexual organs. These sex assignments or reassignments as the case may be often resulted in the hermaphrodite’s altered sexual organs being contrary to their natural gender orientation.

In the cases of true hermaphrodites possessing both sets of sexual organs, the child would typically be raised as a male due to the obvious male phallus. Yet, this phallus was often, but not always, infertile due to the hormonal influence of the estradiol being produced in an ovary or ovotestes. Consequently, the hermaphrodite raised to live as a man with a phallus, scrotum, and/or ovotestes would develop some measure of female breasts due to the presence of the estradiol and perhaps other female characteristics as well. Such people have often experienced difficulties in coping with traditional attitudes and customs demanding strict adherence to certain male and female gender roles and behaviors. In schools, some hermaphrodites who could not pass as males without female labia or females without a phallus had to be excused from certain activities such as sports and/or showers.

Given the centuries of precedence of the experience of hermaphrodites, it is noteworthy to observe the extent to which the LGBT community and the anti-LGBT community have not recognized nor respected any lessons which can be learned from the hard won experiences of hermaphrodites in Christian societies.


46 posted on 10/04/2014 8:46:06 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: ilovesarah2012

None


47 posted on 10/04/2014 8:49:19 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mr Rogers

“Here is a hint: the overwhelming majority of transsexuals have no chromosomal problem.”

Didn’t say any different. But your comments assume the sex chromosomes are the only chromosomes which determine sexual AND/OR gender behavior.


48 posted on 10/04/2014 8:53:15 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Yes, chromosomes control our sex and that should control our gender. Lying to ourselves about what gender - sex - we are is dishonest, stupid and counterproductive.

For the very tiny percentage of folks with both male and female genitalia naturally or with something other than XX or XY...I’ll give them a pass to choose. But the transgendered “female” who taught the college course I took was a guy dressed up as a very ugly and unconvincing female...


49 posted on 10/04/2014 9:07:46 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: ilovesarah2012

Neither, they should ban the sick freaks from influencing other children with their perversion and only allow them back to school when they revert to the sexual identity they were born with.


50 posted on 10/04/2014 9:53:48 AM PDT by LambSlave
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To: ilovesarah2012

How about the hockey ball team?


51 posted on 10/04/2014 9:56:27 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: Mr Rogers

“Yes, chromosomes control our sex and that should control our gender. Lying to ourselves about what gender - sex - we are is dishonest, stupid and counterproductive.”

So, then why do you insist the Y chromosome necessarily produces a male, when it demonstrably does not do so?


52 posted on 10/04/2014 10:24:25 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Because it does, for about 1999 out of 2000 people. And for the 1/2000 otherwise, I’ll give a pass...but they may still be restricted in sports, depending on the exact situation.


53 posted on 10/04/2014 10:30:25 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: Mr Rogers

“Because it does, for about 1999 out of 2000 people.”

I’m sorry to disappoint you, but you are misinformed and badly mistaken. It is not the Y chromosome that determines whether or not a person develops as a male or female. Instead, it is the presence of an SRY gene at the correct location at the end of the Y chromosome which enables the subsequent programming which may produce a male in most but not all cases. Faulty transcription of the SRY gene into an adjacent and incorrect location on the Y chromosome results in programming a person into becoming an hermaphrodite. So, it is the SRY gene in one certain location which determines the person’s potential sex as a male, otherwise the person will develop as a female or an hermaphrodite even with a Y chromosome.

Even once the person is programmed by the SRY gene on the Y chromosome to develop as a male, there are a number of additional genes and other factors which must function in a certain fashion to result in a fully male adult and remain fully male in all functions. Virtually no male or female lives a full life with every function remaining fully male or female as the case may be. Menopause and Andropause are examples of such changes in certain sexual characteristics.


54 posted on 10/04/2014 10:45:18 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

I’m sorry to disappoint you, but you are trying to muddy what is fairly clear. I don’t care if it is the “Y” chromosome or part of the Y chromosome, there is a predictable outcome in the vast, overwhelming number of cases.

What you are discussing - a rare genetic deformity - has NOTHING to do with ‘transgendered people’.

“Virtually no male or female lives a full life with every function remaining fully male or female as the case may be. Menopause and Andropause are examples of such changes in certain sexual characteristics.”

I hate to break this to you, but menopause doesn’t turn a woman into a man. Into the Devil Incarnate, perhaps, but not a man.

Are you seriously trying to argue that the transgendered rights crap is genetically motivated? Why do YOU want to separate gender from sex? What is YOUR agenda?

Let me simplify in crude terms:

Got a cock? Male.

Got a pussy? Female.

Got both or neither? You have my sympathy and I’ll be willing to work on that whenever it crops up in my life. Oh wait - it hasn’t in 55+ years because it is incredibly rare!

Why do you pretend rare disorders have anything to do with the subject of this thread: “Which sports teams should transgender students play on?”


55 posted on 10/04/2014 11:28:25 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: WhiskeyX

Why are you arguing? The article is about boys who have decided to be girls and girls who have decided to be boys. It is not a discussion of intersexed children. Birth defects are not the issue here. Mental illness is.


56 posted on 10/04/2014 2:15:00 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: ilovesarah2012

“Why are you arguing? The article is about boys who have decided to be girls and girls who have decided to be boys. It is not a discussion of intersexed children.”

It most certainly is “a discussion of intersexed children” in part. Some “intersexed children” have the external genitalia of one sex, the internal sex organs of the other sex, the sex chromosome of the other sex except for certain genes, and the internal hormonal regime and brain development of the other sex. It is not unusual for such persons to discover their intersex condition long after the assignment of their gender at birth. In many intersex cases a woman did not learn about her intersex condition having male sex chromosomes until mid or late adulthood, because her physician lied to her about her test results. Given the difficulties in the ability of an intersex person, their physician, and others to recognize their intersex condition through their internal sex organs, imagine how difficult it can be to discover and recognize comparable differences in the 30 other genes no appearing in the sex chromosomes.

How are you going to be able to determine which of the transgendered students are and are not affected by intersex gene expressions which do not manifest themselves in the genitalia?

Ask yourself how you could possibly know such a thing without performing extensive testing and research on each individual’s entire 46 chromosomes? The fact is the intersex condition of many people go undiscovered well into adulthood, on the autopsy table, or never. You could have an intersex condition and not know it, even with medical tests for the condition, because many physicians will refuse to tell their patients about the existence of the condition. Given how some intersex conditions can lead to certain health problems later in life, this non-disclosure of the intersex condition by healthcare providers can put a patient’s health and life at risk later in life.

“Mental illness is.”

Which type of mental illness do you have in mind for your diagnosis of mental illness: psychosis or neurosis? What is the basis for your diagnosis of mental illness when you reference the DM? Which DM are you relying upon? How can you conclude a person who is a transgendered student is not also a person who has an intersex condition; and when a student is intersexed or a mosaic, why would you assume such a transgendered student must also be a person suffering a mental illness?


57 posted on 10/05/2014 9:08:05 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

EXCLUSIVE: APA still considers transgenderism a mental disorder, just changed the name

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/apa-still-considers-transgenderism-a-mental-disorder-just-changed-the-name


58 posted on 10/05/2014 1:22:24 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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