Posted on 09/13/2014 5:41:52 AM PDT by RoosterRedux
It only hit home last Monday that I was living in a transformed country. It was in Musselburgh, a neat, mainly working-class town at the mouth of the river Esk, unjustly overlooked by tourists who cram into nearby Edinburgh.
I was in the crowd at a rally being addressed by Jim Murphy MP, one of the few stars on the pro-Union side. He was assailed by a local SNP councillor and abuse was hurled from passing cars. It was a mild example of the ‘systematic manipulation of hatreds’ which is how the American Henry Adams once described elections, except that the referendum campaign on Scottish independence has been going on for nearly 1,000 days since the start of 2012.
One eloquent young shop-worker confronted Murphy about ‘foodbanks and the bedroom tax’. The verbally adroit MP was unfazed. Perhaps if the heckler had mentioned Labour’s inglorious role in the assault on young girls in its Rotherham stronghold, he might have been on the defensive.
But the Scottish National Party (SNP) and its far-left allies assume that the workings of an unwieldy state can only bring good outcomes.
Suddenly this pro-independence ‘yes’ supporter shouted out: Mr Murphy, just look at this town, it’s in a terrible state’. I looked and saw tidy streets, containing some attractive small shops; a theatre, a race course and impressive civic buildings were nearby.
Musselburgh gleamed in the sunshine but for this bright alienated young man it might as well have been Calcutta or Soweto. He is one of many Scots whipped up by non-stop agitation on social media and in the streets by a formidable Yes campaign.
The referendum tumult has been far uglier across in post-industrial Glasgow and its environs.
(Excerpt) Read more at thecommentator.com ...
Define ‘coming to a vote’ though...
Some of those will never get the chance to vote. There is a Cornwall Separatist movement, a map of the US would have to include a Texan Separatist movement, etc.
An interesting map nonetheless. We’ll see.
I believe Scotland would control the North Sea oil fields and they believe this would finance their socialst government and programs.
What happened to Switzerland? I can almost see it from my house (in a Sarah Palin sense) and it looks to still be there.
If the vote goes against England, I think they need to go back to the traditional solution- conquest.
Sadly, it will end up being the same model as Venezuela and Cuba. It is always the same formula and yields the same results. That people do not learn from history is just one aspect of hell we are all subject to.
“What happened to Switzerland? I can almost see it from my house (in a Sarah Palin sense) and it looks to still be there.”
The country is still there. Their economic superpower of SWISS PRIVACY is gone. They willingly gave it up by kowtowing to the US and EU.
This created a vacuum that will be filled either by another nation that can stand independently (Russia and China do not report under FATCA), or money will move off the grid, which it is doing today into real estate, coins, stamps, art, etc.
I personally like Switzerland very much. Their form of democracy centers on regions (cantons) and seems very responsive to the people who live there.
“Maybe not. As was hinted at upthread, in 1995 Canadians were kept up all night by a referendum in which Quebecers very narrowly rejected independence”
Aye, but then the world economy hadn’t fallen apart... buckle your seatbelt for 2016.
I remember the jeers of the separatists saying that "Next time we will go". It seems to me that Canada was set up for a blatant threat. It then followed that billions of dollars were poured into Quebec by a Federal government. Government offices were moved from Ontario to Quebec. Our taxes are processed at a small city in Quebec, hometown of former Prime Minister Chretien. Thousands of civil service jobs created in Quebec.
Separatists have laughed and jeered at the gullibility of Canadians. An urban legend does exist that the second vote was actually for separation. It was manipulated to give a razor thin margin against separation.
Who knows?
I remember the jeers of the separatists saying that "Next time we will go". It seems to me that Canada was set up for a blatant threat. It then followed that billions of dollars were poured into Quebec by a Federal government. Government offices were moved from Ontario to Quebec. Our taxes are processed at a small city in Quebec, hometown of former Prime Minister Chretien. Thousands of civil service jobs created in Quebec.
Separatists have laughed and jeered at the gullibility of Canadians. An urban legend does exist that the second vote was actually for separation. It was manipulated to give a razor thin margin against separation.
Who knows?
Whoops! My bad. Sorry.
Up until recently the main export from Eire was people. I suspect the same will apply to Scotland. If the rump of the UK have their wits about them, which they usually do not, they will ensure that only citizens of what's left of the UK can work there.
Depends on what kind of economic policies they follow. I’m not real optimistic that they will take a free-market approach.
You’re right, I believe they’re doomed whichever way they vote, it’s just a matter of how soon.
Otoh, have you seen the series “Outlander”? Awesome depiction of the Scottish and Scotland in the 18th century. Well, sounds like the current generation is building a road to meet them first hand...lol!
equal representation, LOL, you do know that they have Scots in the Parliament get much of their welfare is from the British workers, and they are the reason why the Labour party has so many MP’s
OK, I almost expected the answer to go that way.
Fair enough - the Swiss buckled under to the EU and US threats. So then, if even the Swiss caved in, and they’re a freedom loving, industrious people and no fools (especially when it comes to making a buck, though let’s not go back to WWII and all that), how can one realistically expect the Scots to defy those crushing economic threats? The Swiss (and like small entities) at least had the benefit of geographic location in the center of Europe where people could carry cash etc. right into their vaults. Scotland OTOH? I strongly doubt a business model of defiance will work for them. Sadly.
“how can one realistically expect the Scots to defy those crushing economic threats? The Swiss (and like small entities) at least had the benefit of geographic location in the center of Europe where people could carry cash etc. right into their vaults. Scotland OTOH? I strongly doubt a business model of defiance will work for them. Sadly.”
Perhaps you are correct - today.
I would add that the Swiss attained that position because they were outside the conflict in WWII. Money was stashed there by both sides. It was a different world.
Within just a few short years, the economy of the world will be redrawn. It will be a different world.
The western countries are largely failing with debt and giving world prominence to Asia. Their demands for information will be easier to ignore in the future. Defiance may again be possible in a redrawn world.
Scotland could easily stay out of full participation in the EU - as the nordic countries have done - and is isolated enough to become a neutral country, as Switzerland has done.
The big mistake commentators are making is the assumption that the world today will continue into the future. History testifies against that assumption. Doors will open as doors close. Currency will cease (largely) being physical and many countries will switch to electronic currency. The reserve currency will become a basket of other currencies. Borders will be redrawn. Countries will split again. I believe ours will also split eventually. Economies will be decimated and others arise.
This will again open up opportunities for countries like Scotland.
It will not be the world I grew up in during the 50s and 60s.
I reserve the right to be totally wrong :-)
I would also, although not for the reasons they are doing so.
I was in a discussion with an ex-boss and his friends back home. My ex-boss is Scottish migrant and supports Scotland staying in the UK. While many of his friends don’t. I listed what happened to Ireland.
It turns out that as terrible Ireland was and despite it’s at peace at last and as sort of a Celtic tiger for some years until 2009, Ireland has kind of been an impoverished Switzerland on the edge of Europe. Dublin was the second largest city of the British Empire in the 18th and 19tg centuries, they produced illustrious writers like Oscar Wilde and Uliness (sp?). Trinity College of Dublin was one of the most prestigious universities in those days.
And now in 2014, Trinity College and the University College Ireland are languishing at about 200th in terms of best a academia in the world. Modern Ireland is only famous for U2, Ryanair, and US software industry outsourcing destination. But otherwise Ireland is as inconsequential to the world as Switzerland (really the Swiss are there to host the UN and it’s banks).
The best, and I think it’s wildly optimistic, scenario of an independent Scotland will be it becomes the Switzerland of northwestern Europe, probably a neutral country like Switzerland and Ireland. But the price is that it, just as Switzerland and Ireland do, will be independent by pleasure of greater powers, but will not be able to withstand any pressure exerted by the bigger powers’ bullying. And just like Switzerland and Ireland, they won’t amount to much or even anything and will no longer be able to contribute immensely for the good of human race in a substabtial way like it is as part of the UK. It will be a boring far away small country you think of for 2 minutes every year.
The more likely scenario will be endless disputes with what’s left of the UK and Norway over intellectual property rights, inheriting national debts, pressure to join EU and renew the Auld Alliance with France and because of the modern Franco-German core in the EU, Angela Merkel or whoever succeeds her as the German Chancellor will become the real person pulling the levers in Edinburgh. You then have disputes in EEZ (economic zones) in the North Sea. I note that Croatia still hasn’t resolved the EEZ with Slovenia and Italy more than 22 years after independent. Who says that Scotland won’t suffer suits filed by The UK and Noraay at the ICJ in The Hague? Also you get the issue of economic policy. This article shows that nationalisation and confiscation by thugs will be the rule of Scotland under Salmond. They will follow Hogo chavez’s or Eva peron’s economic policies. I think this means that this Scotland will increasingly become like a Belarus or Moldova basket case.
Either way independence will aid the EU as well. I thought creepers are against it?
I’m not saying I believe this will turn out well for an indy Scotland...I’m just saying the Scots are plenty intelligent enough to go it alone. It’s just that their present penchant for socialism and anti-U.S./western policies makes me believe they’re going to have a rough time of it.
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