Posted on 09/13/2014 5:41:52 AM PDT by RoosterRedux
It only hit home last Monday that I was living in a transformed country. It was in Musselburgh, a neat, mainly working-class town at the mouth of the river Esk, unjustly overlooked by tourists who cram into nearby Edinburgh.
I was in the crowd at a rally being addressed by Jim Murphy MP, one of the few stars on the pro-Union side. He was assailed by a local SNP councillor and abuse was hurled from passing cars. It was a mild example of the ‘systematic manipulation of hatreds’ which is how the American Henry Adams once described elections, except that the referendum campaign on Scottish independence has been going on for nearly 1,000 days since the start of 2012.
One eloquent young shop-worker confronted Murphy about ‘foodbanks and the bedroom tax’. The verbally adroit MP was unfazed. Perhaps if the heckler had mentioned Labour’s inglorious role in the assault on young girls in its Rotherham stronghold, he might have been on the defensive.
But the Scottish National Party (SNP) and its far-left allies assume that the workings of an unwieldy state can only bring good outcomes.
Suddenly this pro-independence ‘yes’ supporter shouted out: Mr Murphy, just look at this town, it’s in a terrible state’. I looked and saw tidy streets, containing some attractive small shops; a theatre, a race course and impressive civic buildings were nearby.
Musselburgh gleamed in the sunshine but for this bright alienated young man it might as well have been Calcutta or Soweto. He is one of many Scots whipped up by non-stop agitation on social media and in the streets by a formidable Yes campaign.
The referendum tumult has been far uglier across in post-industrial Glasgow and its environs.
(Excerpt) Read more at thecommentator.com ...
I am half Scots-Irish as well. I watched the recent debate between Salmond and Darling. Salmond’s appeal appears to be that of a jobs program, I.e. independence equals jobs.
I get the distinct impression that the Scots want independence just cuz.
That and the fact that the SNP is repulsively leftist doesn’t argue for success. I do fear for Scotland.
Precisely.
As usual watch the money(power).
Far too many believe that when a Brinks truck crashes; they can scoop up all they can carry and that, will fix them forever.
Notice our Dear Leaders very own proles are still proles and have lost ground.
I haven’t followed this story closely, but at first glance this Scottish independence movement bears a lot of resemblance to the “secession” movement in Quebec. I put quotes around “secession” because Quebec has no interest in seceding from Canada. The leadership may play it up even to the point that most people in Quebec want their own country, but the leadership also knows that an independent Quebec will be a financial disaster from day one.
“I get the distinct impression that the Scots want independence just cuz.”
They have an identity, history, culture, etc. - different than their overlords. They do not believe their interests are best represented in a government far away. I do not blame them at all for wanting to pick up the reins of independence.
I would vote yes to independence.
A very fitting analogy.
One minor problem.
Many French separatists understand the ‘game’.
Many of my ancestors still see rainbows and unicorns.
Soon mailbox bombs... flesh-eating disease...
I think most Scots think England gets the gravy and Scotland gets what’s left. I know from experience things in general are better in England (the roads for one). Also that punitive poll tax was implemented only in Scotland for years before those in power decided to encompass England, which then brought a massive revolt and that was the end of the poll tax for both Scotland and England. Scotland just wants what America wanted back in the day...equal representation, and since that wasn’t forthcoming, they just might withdraw from the “auld enemy” and go it alone. If I still lived in Scotland I think I would be tempted to vote yes.
In 1913 Russia was No.1 oil producer in the World.
Google BRANOBEL Petroleum Company.
Nothing is ironic when it comes to oil.
Overlords? That’s a laugh. It was the Scottish monarchy that took over the English, not the other way round. It was the Scottish who wanted to join the Union; a Union, I might add, that greatly added to Scottish wealth and clout in the world. Just how many men of Scottish background have served as prime minister in the last fifty years?
Scotland (’socialist paradise’) have spent more than they rake in in taxes for every year of the last twenty, except one. How do you think the shortfall is made up?
Scottish students have no tuition fees to pay, while their English counterparts south-of-the-border, do.
Overlords? Really?
I don’t understand and have never followed Scottish politics either and don’t
Really want to. But, your post sounds exactly like something I would write on this subject. So, thanks for posting.
Scotland is solidly Socialist as is Ireland. Total nanny states
Aye, but in addition to that history, which I will not contest, that doesn’t change the desire of the human heart to be in charge of its own destiny - nor a national desire to stand alone. Scots have tremendous national pride in their identity. What is happening is natural.
If the vote does not pass this time, it will in 2016 when the world economy fails. This is simply an event in history whose time has come. The first vote may just be the braxton-hicks contractions that signal a coming birth, but the child will come.
In way of full disclosure... I have no Scottish ancestors. I do have English ancestors. I would vote yes to independence, if I were a Scot.
I am for a free and independent Scotland. Not in favor of a left of center government.
“Scotland is solidly Socialist as is Ireland. Total nanny states”
Yes, the one bright spot from Scotland breaking away, is that the chances of a Labour government in Westminster are greatly reduced. Labour have usually won power thanks to their Scottish seats. England is a rather conservative country by natural inclination.
However, the latest poll (today) shows:
Yes 46 No 54
The great silent majority may yet keep the British family together.
And yet the European Union will not allow them that opportunity. What you will get, however, is the repulsive Alec Salmond, with his English-baiting, and grossly socialist mind-set, running down the great nation of Scotland.
I concede that the independence campaign has the romantic advantage, but all the facts are on the side of the ‘no campaign.’
Still, as I’ve said, if the Scots wish to withdraw from the UK, that is their prerogative (my background is Welsh). I fear they will pay a heavy price, but conservatism in the rest of the UK will get a very large boost electorally.
“Still, as I’ve said, if the Scots wish to withdraw from the UK, that is their prerogative (my background is Welsh). I fear they will pay a heavy price, but conservatism in the rest of the UK will get a very large boost electorally.”
I don’t disagree entirely.
Still, what exists today is not what will exist after the birth occurs.
In regards to a heavy price, I think potentially the heavy price will be less than a decade. Looking around the globe, there are big opportunities to sell North Sea energy to the EU and a very big opportunity to fill the vacuum left by Switzerland. This will depend on dumping some leadership and following a strong leader who can inspire change. Raw nationalism is never enough and a transition will have to occur. That is not to say it will not be difficult or take a decade or longer. Or that the changes will all be good.
I would rather see more small countries than large trouble-making countries.
BTW, according to Marty Armstrong, we are in the rise of the independence cycle. He predicted the events in Scotland long ago. It is certainly interesting to watch it all unfold.
Maybe not. As was hinted at upthread, in 1995 Canadians were kept up all night by a referendum in which Quebecers very narrowly rejected independence. That was the high-water mark for that movement. Canada would have lost Quebec, but Quebec would have lost Canada and whatever they get from it too. Quebecers seem to have looked at that prospect and walked away.
With independence you get something, but you give up something as well.
And a state created on nothing but ethnicity has only ethnicity to hold it together. People will have to make their own judgments from history about how that has worked out.
Interesting. Of course the value of oil is a fluctuating one, and I would not advise pegging the future of a nation’s prosperity on that alone. Your point about ‘many small nations’ is not one that I disagree with, but I’m afraid that in the current climate, a small nation is far easier for the EU to swallow and digest, than a larger, more powerful one.
We live in interesting times.
I think the canny Scottish people probably will vote ‘no’ next week, but the Catalan issue rumbles on. At least David Cameron offered the Scots a referendum. Whither, Spain?
Scotland is just the current one coming to a vote. We never pay attention to the others.
Given that the cycle of war, the cycle of independence parties and the cycle of civil unrest are all rising at the same time that the economic cycle is turning down, I think we'd all better buckle our seatbelts!
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