Posted on 08/05/2014 10:27:01 AM PDT by Kaslin
Some people confuse being libertarian with being libertine.
I’m sometimes asked, for instance, if I’m a libertarian because I want to smoke pot or do other drugs.
I respond that I’ve never done drugs and have no desire to use drugs.
Then I’m asked if I’m a libertarian because I want to gamble.
I respond by saying that I don’t gamble, even when I’m in Las Vegas or some other place where it’s legal.
Sometimes I’m asked if I’m libertarian because I want to use prostitutes.
I respond by explaining that I’d never patronize a prostitute because I want to at least be under the illusion that a woman actually wants to be with me.
At this point, some people conclude I’m boring, and that may be true, but this is also the point where I try to educate them about the libertarian philosophy.
I give them the usual message about small government and free markets, but I also explain that libertarians don’t believe that government should persecute people for victimless crimes.
This doesn’t mean we think it’s good to use drugs or that we personally approve of prostitution. And it doesn’t mean we’re oblivious to the downsides of gambling.
The libertarian message is simply that prohibition makes matters worse, not better. For instance, prohibition gives government the power to behave in reprehensible ways.
Let’s look at two examples, starting with this disturbing and powerful video from Reason TV (warning, both the subject material and language are not for the faint of heart).
The Drug War, the Fourth Amendment, and Anal Cavity Searches in New Mexico
Having watched the video, now ask yourself whether you think this is an appropriate way for governments to be using our tax dollars?
Remember, we’re not talking about cops busting people for impaired driving. That’s totally legitimate, regardless of whether they’re impaired because of drugs or booze.
The question is whether cops should look for excuses to pull people over simply in hopes of finding that they have some pot. And when they don’t find drugs, should they then go through obscene efforts in hopes of finding some contraband?*
Our second example isn’t as disturbing, at least on a physical level, but it should be equally troubling if we believe in decent and humane society.
It seems that SWAT teams have too much time on their hands and are now conducting raids on old folks playing cards.
On Saturday, state and local authorities raided a monthly poker tournament at a bar in the city of Largo, after an investigation into unlawful gambling, the Tampa Bay Times reported. The Nutz Poker League, which was running a free game open to the public at Louie’s Grill and Sports Bar at the time of the crackdown, said on its Facebook page that some of the police were in “full riot gear” and had their “weapons drawn.” …One woman present described the event in a blog post: “Today, while out playing poker with this poker league, we were raided by the [Florida Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco], all with men and women officers wearing black masks so we couldn’t see their faces. We were forced (by a threat of going to jail) to place our hands on the table where they could see them and to stay there until we were told.” …Luke Lirot, an attorney involved with the matter, told Card Player that players took cell phone photos and video of the raid, and that they were “ordered by officers to delete” the material. According to the Tampa Bay Times, the undercover investigation, dubbed “Operation Cracked Aces,” had been ongoing for months prior to the bust.
The community group that runs the recreational league has an appropriately libertarian view of this costly harassment.
“The ‘crime’ here is the waste of valuable public resources, and the misguided efforts to enforce an archaic law that was never intended to be used to criminalize events such as the one here, where six individuals were unjustly arrested and terrified, and now face prosecution,” the league said. “If state statutes can be exploited and stretched to criminalize these types of events, legislation needs to be adopted to clear up this unnecessary abuse.” Nutz Poker added that the raid was an example of “tyrannical [law] enforcement.”
By the way, the Florida raid is not an isolated incident.
Here are some excerpts from a report in the Baltimore Sun.
…at the Lynch Point Social Club in Edgemere, police say, …dozens of men would meet regularly to play no limit Texas Hold ‘Em poker games and gamble on electronic machines. County police said it was all off the books and against the law, and busted the club’s members in a raid involving a tactical unit last week. The organizer and dealers were arrested and face charges. Almost immediately after our story posted, there was a quick backlash against police. The story’s been shared nearly 200 times on Facebook and generated 40 comments as of this writing… commenters had no tie to the event but were angered at an investigation they believe was a waste of police resources.…But police say games like the ones hosted in Edgemere are against the law and must be enforced, and may even put the players at risk for becoming victims of a robbery.
Here’s the bottom line: A bunch of guys want to pass the time by playing cards and making wagers. They’re not hurting anybody else, yet cops decide to send a “tactical unit” to conduct a raid.
Once again, I’m glad there’s a backlash against the police. Cops should beprotecting innocent people, not harassing them.
Or killing them.
And this is why libertarianism is a philosophy of human decency. We don’t believe in using coercive government power against people who aren’t harming others.
*I’m thinking an involuntary cavity search might be worth it if I got a $900,000 award after suing the government.
P.S. Since I feel very confident about libertarian principles, I don’t object to sharing anti-libertarian humor.
Here’s the latest example.
I’ve previously shared a cartoon with the same theme, and that post also makes the should-be-obvious point that fire departments would exist in a libertarian world.
And that link also has many more examples of libertarian humor.
BUMP
Don't forget about the pr0n.
/ducks
Naive libertarian thinks everything is a victimless crime.
Libertarian vs decency is more apt
Libertarianism is a theoretical construct that only works in a perfect world with perfect people. Do you know how to create a libertarian? Take a conservative and remove all common sense.
Self ping
“Naive libertarian thinks everything is a victimless crime.”
Better outlaw church bingo nites, too.
Rule number one for promoting libertarianism to conservatives, pretend that you are a 3 legged stool conservative who just prefers the word libertarian for some reason.
The libertarians formed their own party to work their platform into american politics, libertarian rule number two, pretend that the libertarian party is all fake, why? because they write things down, and libertarians don’t want their actual positions and agenda written into plain position language.
Libertarian Party Platform:
Throw open the borders completely; only a rare individual (terrorist, disease carrier etc.) can be kept from freedom of movement through “political boundaries”.
Homosexuals; total freedom in the military, gay marriage, adoption, child custody and everything else.
Abortion; zero restrictions or impediments.
Pornography; no restraint, no restrictions.
Drugs; Meth, Heroin, Crack, and anything new that science can come up with, zero restrictions.
Advertising those drugs, prostitution, and pornography; zero restrictions.
Military Strength; minimal capabilities.
If you want to get a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian’s panties in a wad, ask them to discuss abortion or immigration policy.
I remember when they were illegal.
Yeah, just because we don’t want gov’t interfering with every aspect of our lives means we don’t think common fire protection is a good idea...
The continual strawman of the left -
“oh, you don’t want to pay people to sit on their asses all day? I suppose you don’t like roads & fire departments either!”
The problem with Libertarians is that they never seem to grasp that people *ARE* harming others.
I can't tell you how many pot heads I know who aren't taking care of their children, and who leave the rest of us taxpayers on the hook for THEIR BILLS.
Are these children being harmed by their parents drug use? YES!
Are innocent taxpayers being harmed by their parents drug use? YES!
How about promiscuity? How about paying for out of wedlock births? Are these children harmed by being born out of wedlock? YES!
Are the taxpayers being harmed by those children being born out of wedlock? YES!
How about Homosexuality? Do you have any idea how many nasty diseases are kept alive by the constant swapping of bodily fluids which take place amongst the homosexual community? They serve as the largest repository of sexually transmitted diseases in the nation.
Does this behavior harm people other than themselves? YES! (Ask Ryan White, Arthur Ashe, and Magic Johnson.)
Does this behavior harm taxpayers? Yes!
Again, the problem with Libertarians is that they refuse to recognize the damage done to others by people following their political philosophy. They have no ability to see the negative longer term consequences of the ideas they advocate.
Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.
-Edmund Burke- 1791
You raise good points, all of which are valid. OTOH, criminalization causes crime, I.e., drug gang violence. The question is, Which is worse?
I believe the right road to take is the road we’ve taken with cigarettes: legalize, control, prohibit advertising, and anti-pot PR campaigns.
The flaming from the knuckleheads didn’t take long at all.
I have libertarian leanings, but do not subscribe to the ‘victimless crime’ syndrome.
Why?
Because you, dear reader, or I, do something somewhere, and we must own up to it, every day. It’s called personal responsibility, and NOT Flip Wilson’s “The Devil Made me Do it!”
It is NOT the ‘responsibility of government to be our daddy or sugar daddy, our nanny, our nursemaid, our wetnurse’. That responsibility falls on the shoulder of each of us in the human race, period.
‘Prohibition’, in it’s time, showed what foibles the federal government can do, and how it was ineffectual, for a long time, in fighting organized crime.
‘The War Against Drugs’ ... How much money has been thrown at that wall, and can you say it has been successful, or not? It is no folly, that the federal government prospered under this war, by becoming bigger and more expensive, and with more lawyers and staff, than might have been needed, if the ‘war’ actually meant we captured, and shot the offenders, right off. less trials, less juries, less prison facilities necessary, and the word would get out quickly, too. But, nooooooo, that is not what happened, is it?
‘Prostitution’ ... the oldest profession will never go away, as long as mankind exists. If the federal government wanted to, it could TAX the operations, overnight. Think of it. Less chance of disease, maybe. Less chance of detectives making dossiers on cheating husbands, since it is a sanctioned business enterprise and legal, with the attached less chance of divorce cases, (oops less lawyers).
‘Stoop sitting welfare’ ... no work, no eat, even a part time job sweeping streets ... unless your name is Manuel and you snuck across the border, then you get zip.
‘Illegal Invasion Acroos Our borders’ ... we have been at war with terrorists, and have seen recent open threats of those wishing to destroy America. Any and all invaders should be shot, in the light of national security, period.
There is no such thing as a victimless crime, because somebody doing something to harm someone, and I do not think calling them names is a crime, in some fashion, has got to own up to it. child abuse, spousal abuse, elderly absue, doctor malpractice, hospital malpractice, cops invading ol’ granny at 2 a.m., any federal agency not operating within the Constitution, somebody had to start that, by voice, or in ink.
You’re as good at your straw man arguments as liberals are when dumping on conservatives. Maybe you’re really a liberal /progressive.
Those would be the people who actually have read the Libertarian Party Platform Statements over the years.
As do all the people taking jabs at libertarian principles in this thread.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.