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U.S. Embassy in Libya evacuates personnel
CNN ^ | July 26, 2014 | Barbara Starr

Posted on 07/26/2014 5:26:08 AM PDT by McGruff

The U.S. Embassy in Libya evacuated its personnel on Saturday because of ongoing militia violence in the capital, Tripoli, U.S. officials said.

About 150 personnel, including 80 U.S. Marines were evacuated from the embassy in the early hours of Saturday morning and were driven across the border into Tunisia, U.S. officials confirm to CNN.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: libya; libyachaos; usembassy
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To: kabar

By the way...we did that in Japan and in Germany and in South Korea.

Why oh why did we stop having that policy?


61 posted on 07/26/2014 8:44:09 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: katykelly

Ambassador Stevens.


62 posted on 07/26/2014 8:49:34 AM PDT by McGruff (We can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: Cold Heat

Let me answer that myself...

It is because of Vietnam.

The left’s ability to control our media began in earnest with Vietnam. After Cronkite and co. They salivate every time we send troops to a foreign land. They don’t like the military of anyone that makes use of it for anything more than about 3-4 years.

After that....if you don’t get out, win,lose or draw, they attack any politician inn favor of staying. And that usually is republicans.

So we stopped doing it right, so that we could do it politically correct.


63 posted on 07/26/2014 8:49:36 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: kabar

BTW kabar.

When you take a country and defeat them, you take the reigns of power to let things cool,but you start a parallel government as a democracy and gradually release power as they can handle it.

Since Korea, every thing we do turns to crap. Everything Israel has don turned to crap.

You don’t let a country you defeated dictate the rules to you. Israel ended up with Hamas in power in Gaza. The US allowed a Sunni to run Iraq, replacing a Sunni (saddam) with another Sunni minority government. It’s no wonder we could not get a agreement for status of forces. We were there to protect the Shia from the Sunni, as far as internal stuff. That left them ripe to pick by a Shia revolutionist.

Same things in Afghanistan..Libya.It’s all blowing up.

All for nothing.


64 posted on 07/26/2014 9:03:36 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Obadiah

>>Good thing Obama has Al Quada on the run!

Unfortunately, they are chasing us.


65 posted on 07/26/2014 9:12:34 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyranni)
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To: McGruff

Add to that, obama is using taxpayer money to help Hamas, and other terrorist organizations. I think his ramping up immigration threats is a diversion to help terrorist all over the world. He even opened the borders so they can slip in. God knows how many he already let in. They had to stop off in Mexico to get the fast and furious guns saved for them.


66 posted on 07/26/2014 9:37:58 AM PDT by Linda Frances (Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.)
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To: Cold Heat
no....I did leave a exception for a strategic threat...ie: Russia China What other countries matter.

Some strategic threats: Iran, Pakistan, North Korea and frankly any country that harbors non-state actors that can pose a threat to this country acting as surrogates for those listed above. Militant Islamic fundamentalism poses a global threat.

I was addressing Libya as a perfect example of a break it/fixit rule. We should not have intervened. How about Egypt, How about Iraq.

You don't understand why Obama was compelled to intervene in Libya leading from behind. When Libya was disintegrating, it affected oil production that went primarily to Europe and were owned partially by Europeans. Even more importantly, as Libya fell into chaos, the Italians were faced with a massive infusion of boat people fleeing Libya and North Africa. It had to be turned off and the way to do it was to resolve the Libyan civil war.

We didn't intervene in Egypt. Obama made a major mistake in supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and alienating the military. Egypt was a close ally and we should not have thrown Mubarak under the bus. It hurt us in the region.

We did the right thing in intervening in Iraq--twice. We should have finished the job during the Gulf War.

Afghanistan initially was a response to a attack on our homeland. I was good with what Bush did. I hollered like a banshee when Obama turned it into a project and now he is leaving it too early just as he did Iraq, and all the crap we stirred up will just return to the outhouse in both places and all that investment and lives were totally wasted.

Bush started making it a nation-building exercise. We should have had a SOFA with Iraq and now one with Afghanistan. America is war-weary. There is no stomach for keeping large numbers of troops in Afghanistan. And we have a President who will not articulate the need to stay there and build the necessary public support.

A generation is 30 years as a rule for the first turnover. After that mathematically it starts to accelerate to get a total turnover based on at what age the kids are born to the new generation to make the third turnover. To change a countries political future and teach them new tricks that they have never done before, the generation that was there when you intervened will not be able to hold it together after the first problem arises. They will revert to the old ways, but the second generation educated in a modern way by the interventionist. (ie: us) Will have the knowledge and will not have the old wounds of a millennia of strife and inter tribal bigotry.

LOL. I don't buy into your sophistry. It depends on the country. Japan and Germany evolved very quickly. It depends on the country, its history, and its people.

67 posted on 07/26/2014 9:38:38 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Cold Heat
By the way...we did that in Japan and in Germany and in South Korea. Why oh why did we stop having that policy?

First, we did it because it was in our national interest. It was part of our containment strategy of Communist expansion. We didn't rebuild China (PRC). We didn't rebuild East Germany or Eastern Europe.

And during these times, the US was the unquestioned world leading economic power. We were untouched by the devastation of WWII. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Doctrine gave us a world view and strategy. And we occupied Japan and West Germany giving us the needed control. We helped draft the Japanese constitution including Article 9. There was unconditional surrender.

We don't have the money to invest in nation building. And the growing welfare state will further limit our ability to project power globally. We are now experiencing the classic Guns vs Butter battle and butter always wins because it has more constituents. The sane thing happened to the UK.

68 posted on 07/26/2014 9:48:02 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Cold Heat
Let me answer that myself... It is because of Vietnam. The left’s ability to control our media began in earnest with Vietnam. After Cronkite and co. They salivate every time we send troops to a foreign land. They don’t like the military of anyone that makes use of it for anything more than about 3-4 years.

I served a year in Vietnam 1967-68 and ten months off the coast. We won the war militarily and lost the peace. The South Vietnamese fought almost two years after our last combat troops left. When the NVA broke the peace accords and invaded, the US declined to intervene and Congress had already cut off military aid.

The Left likes to send troops when it is on a humanitarian mission or when a Dem President authorizes it like in the Balkans. They also want an intervention to be under the UN or at least NATO. Nothing unilaterally.

Korea was really our first limited war with limited objectives.

69 posted on 07/26/2014 9:54:15 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

kabar....Interventions take many forms.

Interventions do not require one to stay and rebuild.

That is called a occupation.

I am referring in my analysis to occupations but interventions can go bad. But we are not responsible for that.

You are conflating everything I have said with everything I have said. Get back to the basics, the occupations.

We have done two since Vietnam, Israel has done two.
All have failed or are about to fail.

Of our interventions, we have done more than two,I just can’t recall the other African stuff but Libya, and Egypt were two of them and they have failed or are about to fail...ahh...the other was Somalia. Epic fail!

In these cases you should never have gone in because they were too unstable and there really was no reason to do it at the time. Israel could have easily taken out Egypt if it attacked. We should not have been giving them money, aid or anything to the Egyptians. All we needed to do was support Israel. Just wait...the Egypt thing is far from over..

The Libya oil was only important to us because we had one refinery on the East coast that needed that sweet crude.

One refinery.

What got going on that was the media. They loved it.

Root for the underdog...big drama.

Big BS


70 posted on 07/26/2014 9:56:09 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: kabar

Oh heck, I must be tired, I forgot Clinton’s Nato led air war....caused more problems then it fixed. and Reagans two short term interventions with no occupation. Both of those succeeded. We fixed the problems with the little island and the American school and we got Noriega. Great successes done right with a full deck of military power.

There was one more.......hmmmmm....That crap island nation in the med. Starving blacks after a storm. Happened years ago and it’s still just as bad as it was. But at least we dumped it on the international community. The UN has it now...lol


71 posted on 07/26/2014 10:06:38 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Cold Heat
BTW kabar. When you take a country and defeat them, you take the reigns [sic] of power to let things cool,but you start a parallel government as a democracy and gradually release power as they can handle it.

We had military governments in Japan and West Germany. In fact, Berlin remained under the control of the allies until the wall came down. The Germans used to reimburse us (Americans, British, and French) the costs for our troops and diplomatic personnel.

You don’t let a country you defeated dictate the rules to you. Israel ended up with Hamas in power in Gaza. The US allowed a Sunni to run Iraq, replacing a Sunni (saddam) with another Sunni minority government. It’s no wonder we could not get a agreement for status of forces. We were there to protect the Shia from the Sunni, as far as internal stuff. That left them ripe to pick by a Shia revolutionist.

Allawi was a Shi'a,; Ibrahim al-Jaafari was a Shi'a, and Nouri al-Maliki is a Shi'a. All the replacements for Saddam were Shi'a.

72 posted on 07/26/2014 10:08:18 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Cold Heat
Why oh why did we stop having that policy?

Because in the 60s, the communists took control of the US and they didn't like the policy.

73 posted on 07/26/2014 10:12:14 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: kabar

Ummmmm.......I already gave you Japan and Germany as examples of success,(how to do it) as well as south Korea. You saying they are failures?

Are they not allies today?

I fess up un the shia sunni thing...I got that backasswards.

But my premise is that we did not stay. We needed to stay and the same will occur with Afghanistan. Both are lost...complete waste of young lives and treasury.


74 posted on 07/26/2014 10:14:13 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Yeah...led by Walter Cronkite.


75 posted on 07/26/2014 10:14:52 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: McGruff

This is those two geniuses Susan Rice and Samantha Powers tarbaby.

It’s a strong argument against putting idiots in important positions.


76 posted on 07/26/2014 10:17:23 AM PDT by Rome2000
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To: kabar

By the way, we allowed the emporer to retain his title in Japan. In Germany, we had to get the Nazis out first, after it settled we began giving them their power back, slowly as we stayed and kept order. for decades.


77 posted on 07/26/2014 10:17:36 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: johniegrad

My point exactly...


78 posted on 07/26/2014 10:20:52 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: kabar

Gotta go kbar...

Stay sharp.


79 posted on 07/26/2014 10:21:55 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Cold Heat
I am referring in my analysis to occupations but interventions can go bad. But we are not responsible for that.

In both Iraq and Afghanistan, we remained only at the approval of the host government once one was formed. Iraq failed to negotiate a SOFA with us and we left. To call us occupiers is to misstate the reality.

We intervened during the Gulf War as part of a broad coalition and kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. They never returned to Kuwait. We have done many "interventions" as you label them since Vietnam.

The Libya oil was only important to us because we had one refinery on the East coast that needed that sweet crude.

Our oil imorts from Libya were miniscule. We stopped getting oil from them in the 1980s and started up again in 2004.

US Imports of Crude Oil from Libya.

80 posted on 07/26/2014 10:24:00 AM PDT by kabar
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