UKRAINE: Trajectory of missile that hit Malaysia Airlines plane crash

https://www.facebook.com/anna.bichik?fref=nf ^ | 22/7/2014

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

U.S. issued trajectory missile that hit MH17

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJlw6OCcAA810y.jpg

[Uncle Chip]

Which band of which tribe?

I was referring to the Russian-backed tribe of Borodai and the Two Igors.

[Rashputin]

LOL, gotcha.

IMHO, "it's all about misdirection, Stanley" and just like French preconceptions were the misdirection Germans took advantage of in WWII, the preconceptions the Two Igors had were the misdirection that played right into the hands of someone.

Call that someone fate if you don't want to single out who most benefits, but still, preconceptions leading to misdirection of the sort someone could and may have taken advantage of.

[Rashputin]

Well, you're no fun.

Throwing that bare bone of Truth into the pack chewing on the yummy organ meats of speculation.

Jeez, kill joy.

Tip o'the hat, Regards.

[FR_addict]

Many airlines were avoiding the area. USA airlines were told not to use it. Qantas and Cathay Pacific also quit flying the route.

Malaysian Air Flight Took Route Avoided by Qantas, Asiana

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-18/malaysian-airline-took-flight-route-avoided-by-qantas-asiana.html

The Ukrainians and Eurocontrol would absolutely know that there had been planes shot down in the area in the last week. Yet, they did not restrict the area until after the plane was downed.

[Uncle Chip]

So did the ICAO or did you forget them on purpose???

[ctdonath2]

Easier to track over ground where many are keenly interested in what’s moving where, not so much over ocean when nobody cares and pilot is trying to hide.

[justa-hairyape]

But if they thought about it a little more they would have to ask themselves why is a transport plane at that altitude heading east within 3 minutes of Russian territory.

Yes some additional calculating on their part would have been warranted. At any rate, every plane flying over Eastern Ukraine is minutes from Russia.

[Grampa Dave]

Best advice of the day.

.I would keep my powder dry on MH017. IMHO. between the lie tellers, Obama, the Russians, and Ukraine....I think we, the general public...will never know what really happened.">

We could add the various militias, separatists, former KGBers and CIA mercs and hired PR experts for all sides to the stew of liars in that area.

[FR_addict]

Malaysia Airlines crash prompts flight detours

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/travel/malaysia-airlines-crash-air-space/

Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around. The FAA prohibited airspace above the Crimea, but not in this area. The US airlines had voluntarily decided to avoid the area.

“The Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that U.S. airlines had voluntarily agreed not to operate in airspace near the Russian-Ukraine border. Later, the FAA issued a notice prohibiting U.S. flight operations in the airspace over eastern Ukraine until further notice.”

Also in article:

“In April, U.S. airlines were prohibited by the FAA from flying in airspace surrounding Crimea, but Thursday's crash site was not within what was considered restricted area.

The International Civil Aviation Organization and European Aviation Safety Agency also issued warnings in the spring against flying in the same area, the Simferopol Flight Information Region.

The crash occurred outside the warning area near the town of Torez in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region.

“What I can't understand is why civilian airliners were flying over this area, which is just a huge error on their part,” said Bob Baer, a CNN national security analyst and former CIA agent.

Most airlines follow the guidelines and rules set by their national civil aviation authorities and fly the most direct route from their departure to their arrival city, said Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

The FAA and other national civil aviation authorities hadn't yet defined the area where the aircraft got shot down as part of the conflict zone in Ukraine, Schiavo said.”

[FR_addict]

At least the FAA stopped US flights to Tel Aviv just now because of danger.

FLIGHT DIVERTED AFTER ROCKET LANDS NEAR TLV
FAA CLOSES ROUTE TO ISRAEL

[Uncle Chip]

The FAA does not control Malaysian Airlines, Finn Air, India Air, Singapore Airlines, nor any of the other 15+ international carriers that had flights through that area that day.

[Rashputin]

Was there enough difference in their routes and the route of this flight that they would seem to be headed toward a different destination (i.e. noticeably different heading)?

Were these other flights present when Su25s were hitting the units surrounding the trapped Mech Brigade at the same time they passed over this area?

Does Ukraine itself, the Kiev government, still have civilian flights of their own flying over this area? On the same or similar heading?

What are the odds Separatists ignored those other flights because there none of the activity around the surrounded unit that usually takes place to suppress AA fire before a transport comes in there to land or lowers altitude to drop supplies?

My asking goes to "state of mind" among the Separatists, not to whether or not they fired and are guilty of the shoot down. I don't see how it could anyone else unless someone can show me the Ukraine NG or Army operating the same type of system. Even then, if it's not the whole Gadfly ball of wax you'd have to prove intent because in all likelihood they would have IFF information available.

Nothing about this is black and white except the extremely high probability that the Separatists did the shooting and the significantly much lower probability it was anyone except the Separatists..

JMHO

[FR_addict]

“The FAA does not control Malaysian Airlines, Finn Air, India Air, Singapore Airlines, nor any of the other 15+ international carriers that had flights through that area that day.”

No one said the FAA controlled non-American airlines, nor was it implied that the FAA controlled them. However, the FAA should have taken the threat more seriously and made it a mandatory prohibition for US airlines. Instead, they relied on the US airlines to voluntarily stop flights over the area.

[FR_addict]

This image is sourced from Flight Radar 24. It has the actual and proposed flight plan.

Malaysia Airlines MH17 flight path map
http://www.theguardian.com/world/graphic/2014/jul/18/malaysia-mh17-flight-path-map-ukraine#

The article below said the flight plan deviated from the flight paths earlier in the week. I’ve read it was weather related, but the article doesn’t mention it. The Ukrainians need to allow the air traffic communication to be heard.

AVIATION EXPERT: Malaysia Flight Took A Significantly Different Route Than The Usual Course

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-flight-17-took-different-route-2014-7#ixzz38EPl1Yjd

[Uncle Chip]

What that indicates is that the area over eastern Ukraine was not a danger to commercial aircraft or atleast not serious enough to make it mandatory.

[Alas Babylon!]

We could add the various militias, separatists, former KGBers and CIA mercs and hired PR experts for all sides to the stew of liars in that area.

And that's just right here on Free Republic!

[Grampa Dave]

We could add the various militias, separatists, former KGBers and CIA mercs and hired PR experts for all sides to the stew of liars in that area."

And that's just right here on Free Republic!

BOL!

[Rashputin]

Wow, significant difference between the solid and dotted lines in that first link. If it was all about saving fuel that’s a good bit of difference that works against saving any. If other flights on the same route were even further South than the path this aircraft too, even the proposed route is way, way, North of the usual.

Now I'm not so sure the shooters didn't even consider whether or not this was a civilian flight and had reason to rule that out based on their experience. The path planned didn’t look at all like it was heading to the encircled Mech unit, the actual path does.

Worth everyone seing, IMHO.

Thanks for the links.

It's pretty good photographic and other info showing the area and more than one SAM which surprised the Hell out of me. The only photographic evdence I've seen yet and does it come from US, NATO, OSCE, Ukraine, etc. ?

[Rashputin]

And that's just right here on Free Republic! 

Well it's not like back when they worked for a living. What's that saying, "the Web is mightier than the sword"?