Malaysian passenger plane crashes in Ukraine near Russian border: Ifax

Obama says US citizen Quinn Lucas Schansman was on the plane.

>>>>>>There was no Ukrainian jet in the area and Putin’s plane never went anywhere near Ukrainian airspace.<<<< There was no Ukrainian jet in the area

Try, just a little bit harder.

Thanks...I did listen to Samantha Powers at the UN Sec. Meeting.....although she mentioned other nation losses there was no mention of any American.

However it was later reported there were four bodies who were not yet identified the nationality.

You know I'm no longer going to respond to your nasty and derogatory posts.....you have nothing to offer other than a crappy choice of name calling and failure to do any of your own homework...thus failing to address the topics with anything of interest.. Enough said.... consider yourself ignored until you can clean up your act..

Ohhh aren’t you just the precious one —

No radar returns of Ukrainian jets in the area at the time of the shoot-down and no reports from Ukrainian fighters of being in the area and witnessing the shoot down.

The SOP obfuscation and deceit will not work for this incident, sir.

A 'cross' appears in this photo- eerily reminiscent of the 9/11 cross

It’s Wilson’s fault.

Lemberg and Crakau to Austria, Grodno and Minsk to Poland, Konigsberg to Germany, Donetsk to Russia, plebescite in Kiev.

Problem solved.

Awesome! Thanks so much!

Btw. what was the UTC time of shoot down being reported by Kiev Junta?

How it relates to the actual time of the airliner going down?

If you own a MUK, it does.

B52s and supply planes are typical targets at that elevation.

Got it!

True or false statement?

Robert Mark, a commercial pilot who edits Aviation International News Safety magazine, said that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur normally travelled along a route significantly further south than the plane which crashed. Malaysia Airlines has insisted its plane travelled on an "approved route" used by many other carriers. But Mr Mark said: "I can only tell you as a commercial pilot myself that if we had been routed that way, with what's been going on in the Ukraine and the Russian border over the last few weeks and months, I would never have accepted that route. "I went into the FlightAware system, which we all use these days to see where airplanes started and where they tracked, and I looked back at the last two weeks' worth of MH17 flights, which was this one. "And the flight today tracked very, very much further north into the Ukraine than the other previous flights did ... there were MH17 versions that were 300 miles south of where this one was."

If this is true, it means that Kiev ATC deliberately sent KH17 on a different route that day.

The question is : WHY?

Possible answer: Because Junta's SAMs were waiting ready to fire in this area.

The narrow window to launch SA-11 on unusual route suggests that the changed route was known to the launch site. Did KIEV ATC announced it to "rebels"? Not very likely.

When Ukraine shot down Siberia Airlines 1812 flying from Tel Aviv, it took them months to confess Ukraine did it.

When KH17 was shot down, Junta "knew" after .... minutes it was done by the rebels who unlike Junta do not have the operational SAM batteries in the area.

Any LEO would smell something fishy here.

It is not who is accused, but who gained from the crime.

TEN QUESTIONS Ruskies asked THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES:

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

I'd love to hear response to #9.

One more question: Since when the commercial airliners deploy chaffs?

Chaffs, like ones seen on a video of MH17 falling down from the sky

Military jets do. But You claim there were no Junta's jets present.

How do you explain this?

Posted elsewhere by Corporate Democrat ...

Just making it crystal clear why the separatists almost certainly shot it down. Note that they incriminate themselves without any help from the LSM, Ukraine or Obama or the EU.

Here's a larger snapshot of the first incriminating post, translated via Google Translate. (Untranslated image is at the end)

You can see that he claims a AH-26 was shot down at 17:50 (5:50 PM) MSK aka Moscow Standard Time. which would be around 9:50 AM EST aka Eastern Standard Time.

The reports that a Malaysian commercial plane "crashed" near the Russian border was first posted on FR at 11:25 AM EST, just one hour and a half later.

The Google Cached webpage of the incriminating post also has a timestamp showing it was archived on 17 July 2014 16:10:43 GMT,

16:10:43 GMT aka 4:11 PM GMT, which is 11:11 AM EST, just 20 minutes before reports of a crashed plane started circulating.

ITAR-TASS, RIA Novoski and Life News, all Russian propaganda outlets, reported that an AN-26 was downed by the rebels an hour before the truth came out.

All quoted "eyewitnesses" and the rebels themselves as admitting to it, and posted photos and videos of it a full hour before up to an hour after a commercial plane was reported to have "crashed", via their own websites and social media posts which I have linked to.

RIA Novoski reported an AN-26 shot down by separatists at 18:13 Moscow Time July 17. (translated from Russian)

Life News reported an AN-26 shot down by separatists at 18:34 Moscow Time July 17. (translated from Russian)

ITAR-TASS reported an AN-26 shot down by separatists at 20:01 Moscow Time July 17.(first English-language Russian source reporting this).

You can check for yourselves, and then realize that reports of the missing airliner surfaced about an hour afterwards at 11:30 EST aka 19:30 Moscow Time that a plane had "crashed" in Eastern Ukraine. Of course, the Russians are probably going to delete those reports soon once they get their bearings on this catastrophe.

Did a Russian soldier's trigger finger blow MH17 out of the sky. US says separatists would struggle

07/19/2014 8:39:39 AM PDT · 114 of 181
Corporate Democrat to grania; mac_truck; dforest; wetphoenix

The evidence that the Russian separatists shot down the Malaysian aircraft is overwhelming, largely because they utterly and totally incriminated themselves with photos, video, posts and breathless news releases crowing about "another AN-26" getting shot down a full hour before Malaysia Airlines first reported a missing airplane.
It was originally posted on the personal page of Igor Girkin on the Russian version of Facebook vk.com, which he has been using for months as his own personal propaganda outlet. He's still posting alibis over there with the incriminating post deleted, of course.
In it he clearly says that his forces downed "another AH-26" and even posts two video clips of the planes getting shot down.

It's deleted now, but nothing ever gets off the Internet once it's on there. If you think that that post was a clever photoshop, Google Cache has the original incriminating post archived.
If that's still not enough, or if you think Google is somehow working with the Ukrainians in a coverup, or got hacked by the NSA or something, even ITAR-TASS, a Russian propaganda organ still has a post up reporting on "eyewitnesses" that witnessed Russian rebels shooting down a AH-26.
If that's STILL not enough proof, or if you think that ITAR-TASS was somehow tricked by the CIA, NSA, NATO into reporting that a AN-26 was shot down less than an hour before the world realized it was a commercial plane, both RIA Novoski and Life News, again both Russian propaganda outlets still have reports up of an AN-16 being shot down over Eastern Ukraine a full hour before the horrific truth came out.

fly me

Did a Russian soldier's trigger finger blow MH17 out of the sky. US says separatists would struggle