Posted on 04/17/2014 11:35:37 AM PDT by SkyPilot
U2 frontman Bono talks about his faith and answers the question "Who is Jesus?" in the video below. Click play to watch.
Link Here with Video (2 mins 46 secs)
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
Your “reading” of scriptures if, in fact, you are referring to these at all in your discussions is shallow, at best. Like the religious-types of Christ’s day “you are mistaken because you do not understand the scriptures or the power of God.”
Christ announces His intention:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Christ allows Himself to be arrested:
Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Joh 18:7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
Joh 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he:
Christ comes before Pilate and Pilate’s trepidation:
Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
Joh 19:8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
Joh 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Joh 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him:
God’s judgment against sinners and how He exacts payment:
2Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
No, not at all. It’s a collection of songs, speeches, lists, stories, legends, poems, and letters from a long-ago culture cobbled together by the Catholic church, edited and re-edited, which now exists as a relic that some people like to comb through looking for mystical signs to make their lives more interesting.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. ... Joh 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.(which is very cautious for someone who was there to willingly die)
And there you have it. The Jews said he claimed to be the son of God, but Jesus wouldn't admit to it in front of Pilate. Know why? Because part-n-parcel of that was the prophecy of him being King of a reunified Israel, wrested from Roman control. So Jesus makes evasive responses like "my kingdom is in another world," and "whatever happens is God's will," and Pilates responds, "Okay, whatever, this kook isn't my concern." The Jews crucify him because they are his political enemies, and that was the end of it. All the rest is legend. Followers adding their own "Oh, Pilates was scared!" (But not scared enough to simply imprison Jesus and promise a lengthy investigation-- a face-saving measure any politician knows how to do. He didn't bother because he didn't care.)
You are living your life studying the legends of some other culture's Che Guevara.
So, then, your answer to the question posed to Bono, ‘Who is Jesus?’ would be something like, “a real person who has been re-invented and re-invented over time by those who needed someone to believe in,” or something like that. Is this correct?
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
Mar 15:2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
Luk 23:3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
And here. This one’s especially for you:
Luk 22:67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
Luk 22:68 And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
Luk 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
Luk 22:71 And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
Yes, that sums it up.
The quotes you include from his trial confirm what I've been saying. Jesus was evasive. "You say I am," he says over and over, which is a non-answer. He won't say YES or NO, he plays this little game because if he denies it, he'll lose his followers, and if he confirms it, he'll fall prey to his enemies. This is a very cagey move by someone who very clearly does NOT want to be sentenced to death. However, he couldn't avoid it, and... well, that was it.
Christ isn’t being “cagey” and He certainly isn’t trying to get out from a death sentence (”Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.” - does that sound like someone trying to “beat the rap” or cop a plea to you? He isn’t playing games. He isn’t avoiding the question. He isn’t worried about losing His followers; He told them they would forsake Him! You are demanding that He provide a very specific answer, “I am the king of the Jews,” and as He doesn’t use those words, you conclude He is being disingenuous. Perhaps it is as simple as this: He won’t say “Yes, I am the king of the Jews,” because He is more than that—He is the King of Kings!
Now, as you’ve acknowledged, you believe He is, for all intents and purposes, a man-made invention piled upon an actual historical figure...my question is this: Where’s the flaw? Where’s the human error in His character? Where’s the lie, the ulterior motive, the shading of the truth, the malice aforethought, the lust, the greed, the avarice, the streak of pride that would, should, must accompany any human character, as all humans are flawed? Where’s the error? Where’s the sin? Where’s the point in “the myth” that indicates this is simply a human creation drummed up to provide people with someone to believe in?
You said to someone elsewhere that you are an English teacher. Well, so am I, and one thing I usually find myself doing in the classroom with my AP students is to try to reconcile plot flaws, character weaknesses that invariably crop up in stories written by (and about) humans. I’m sure you’ve found yourself dealing with some of those same blemishes in the stories you’ve taught. Where’s the blemish on Christ?
What caused you to click on this particular thread in the first place, Lady?
Pilate’s own wife had warned Pilate not to deal with this man having been troubled in her dreams...His own gut told him something was amiss. The Romans were known for what was called a “Strong sense of Roman fair play”. He understood authority. Jesus would simply just love Pilate with a love that controls that universe...that is what Pilate was confronted with. Unadulturated love...and Pilate’s own response suggests he was being strongly influenced by it. Jesus from the cross forgave all those who put him up there...that would have included Pilate too. Could Pilate have forgiven himself? Who could say...Christ had already forgiven him!
He never denied being the Messiah, he already knew that Pilate suspected that Jesus was more than he appeared. Jesus had been whipped and beaten but he loved Pilate.
As soon as Jesus mentioned that his “Kingdom was not of this world”, Pilate was undone and tried to get Jesus freed as best as he could. John the Baptist was Jesus’ cousin and He would have known about King Herod having him beheaded. Pilate was not stupid. The troubles his wife felt and drempt...it was not hatred God was extending...it was love! Yet here was this crowd wanting him killed, yet Pilate(who’s authority came from God whether he fully knew it or not) was confronted with authority he had never in his wildest dreams had any conception of. And this authority was almost sympathizing with him,,,,after all Jesus had spent 3 years dealing with the crafty snakes that had set this situation on fire...that is why he said....”Well Heaven allowed this to go on, so those who delivered me into your hand had the greater sin”... The fact is if Rome hadn’t killed him...Christ would have been sacrificed some other way ...it was the only way that men would have a shot at being reconciled to God.
Being a kind of sarcastic person myself, I do love the delicious discomfiture that Pilate visited upon the Chief Priests and scribes when he had inscribed in several Languages(Hebrew, Latin, and Greek) “The King of The Jews” on his cross. The poor little “leftists of the day” and ever the spin doctors tried to get Pilate to write..”He said he was the king of the jews”...but Pilate told them to take a hike....”What I have written, I have written”!
Read it in your Bible.
A_perfect_lady is Satan’s Tar Baby.
Here to sow as much confusion and distrust as possible.
Ya know, I think Ross’s take is fascinating and pretty much most of what he has to say can be seen on line. He also has a line of books in which he treats various subjects.
He’s taken the position that the laws of physics stayed constant from the creation on. Such a postulate results in interesting conclusions about the lifetimes of stars. I don’t know, however, whether the universe we see today is the universe of the initial creation, or at least where Adam and Eve and the unspoiled Garden were. Ultimately I am agnostic about that issue absent some significant proof one way or the other. One great thing that Ross does highlight is the troubles that conventional evolutionary theories will run into. It is asking for luck after luck after luck to have happened by chance; quite different from the purposefulness of the Lord.
I wish you success with your research. The creation does reflect the glory of the Lord, even if people can’t all come to the same conclusion about the details of how.
More important is that Christ can be seen in many, many Old Testament details. The “problem” seems to be that He’s glorified ALL OVER THE PLACE (and even among Gentiles) not that we can’t make a little list.
Okay, good, let's look at this. If the Messiah's job was to save all mankind, not just the Jews, why did he have to be descended from Judah?
In the story of Joseph, when Joseph tests the brother’s loyalty and motives by planting a silver cup in Benjamin’s pack, it was Judah who stepped forward to take Benjamin’s punishment (Genesis 44:18-33) Judah’s offer of a substitutionary sacrifice for Benjamin’s life is a picture of what his descendent Jesus would do for all people.
His goal doesn't seem to have anything to do with Judaism.
I would daresay that there is many a Jewish convert who has received the life-changing salvation of Jesus Christ who would claim differently. Let’s remember, it was Judah who earlier in the book of Genesis was the one who SUGGESTED that the brothers sell Joseph into slavery with the Ishmaelites. (Gen.37:27) Judah's life changing contrition, confession and repentance is precisely the work that the Holy Spirit accomplishes in those who are saved in Christ Jesus.
God used the wickedness of the brothers to save pagan Egypt from famine. He then allowed the Hebrews to be enslaved and in His perfect time led them out of Egypt and into the Promised Land. Over the centuries, even though they repeatedly rejected Him through idolatry and sin, God was repeatedly faithful to forgive them when they repented. Even as he allowed even the godly Jews to also be swept away into Babylon, He kept a remnant intact…..why?? because all through biblical history God has been trying to call His chosen people back to him. And now, He does this through the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. All sin, all transgressions, all failures of man have been paid for through the blood of Christ to those who accept His sacrifice on their behalf. Because of God’s benevolent grace, He extended His mercy beyond his chosen people to the Gentiles.
The bible has an amazing continuity, as both the fact and the message of it are closely and amazingly interconnected to reveal God’s Son, Jesus Christ and His part in human redemption and restoration. The 66 books comprising the Bible fit together as one book with one theme: Jesus Christ
Great post, I enjoyed reading it.
Thanks for sharing this... and thanks for the mention of Judah. God indeed has a plan so unfathomable and so wide and deep that we can’t see the edges of it.
Great post! I envisioned the Holy Scriptures as a sort of supernatural hologram. There are deeper dimensions to it that only He can illuminate for us. Only God could have devised such a thing.
It’s easy today to look at the modern practice of Judaic faith and say hey, we can’t see much that looks like Christ here... and that’s the point.
Israel dropped the ball like a hot potato, that is, the segment of it that didn’t believe.
Some of these unbelievers embraced Christ as less than Savior — as some kind of mere prophet, and this is called “knowing Jesus according to the flesh.” It’s a weird amalgam of law and Talmudism that results and those who did it were called Judaizers. There is presence of this kind of thing even on this very thread, and it implicitly denies a salvific Savior.
You might want to search what that "collection" says about hardened hearts. BTW, I've heard similar comments from committed liberals.
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