Posted on 04/09/2014 8:18:46 AM PDT by FBD
I also take it that you’re unable to find evidence of this “slaughter.”
There were a lot of stories at the search, this one's Canada Free Press. Dead bodies found? Nope. It seems we're not the only people who have heard of "The 3 's's" Shoot, shovel, shut up. But the numbers counted in the wild is shrinking, so something is happening to them.
US, v. Clive Bundy
US DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEVADA
9 Jul 2013
“The United States filed a complaint on May 14, 2012, for injunctive relief to prevent Bundy’s alleged unauthorized and unlawful grazing of livestock on property owned by the United States and administered by the Secretary of the Interior, Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service, and for trespass damages.
In an order dated November 3, 1998, this court permanently enjoined Bundy from grazing his livestock within a different area, the Bunkerville Allotment, and ordered Bundy to remove his livestock from the Allotment before November 30, 1998. U.S. v. Bundy, No. CV-S-98-531-JBR (RJJ), 1998 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 23835 (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998). The court also ordered that the United States was entitled to trespass damages from Bundy for livestock left on the Bunkerville Allotment after such date.
In its complaint, the United States alleges that, not only has Bundy failed to comply with the court’s orders that he remove his cattle from the Bunkerville Allotment and pay the financial penalties, but that Bundy’s cattle have moved beyond the boundaries of the Bunkerville Allotment and are now trespassing on a broad swath of additional federal land (the “New Trespass Lands”), including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The United States seeks an order enjoining Bundy’s unauthorized grazing on the New Trespass Lands...
...Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S-98-531-JBR (RJJ), 1998 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 23835 (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when Mexico ceded the land to the United States.”...Moreover, Bundy is incorrect in claiming that the Disclaimer Clause of the Nevada Constitution carries no legal force, see Gardner, 107 F.3d at 1320; that the Property Clause of the United States Constitution applies only to federal lands outside the borders of states, see id. at 1320; that the United States’ exercise of ownership over federal lands violates the Equal Footing Doctrine, see id. at 1319; that the United States is basing its authority to sanction Bundy for his unauthorized use of federal lands on the Endangered Species Act as opposed to trespass, see Compl. at ¶¶ 1,3, 26-39; and that Nevada’s “Open Range” statute excuses Bundy’s trespass...
...Nor is there a legitimate dispute that Bundy has grazed his cattle on the New Trespass Lands without federal authorization. The United States has submitted Bundy’s deposition excerpts indicating that Bundy has grazed livestock on the New Trespass Lands and further evidence of the trespass of Bundy’s cattle in those areas. Notwithstanding Bundy’s contentions that the observed cattle bearing his brand may not in fact be his own, such a denial does not controvert Nevada law regarding prima facie evidence of ownership of branded cattle...
...IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that the United States’ Motion for Summary Judgment (#18) is GRANTED...IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy is permanently enjoined from trespassing on the New Trespass Lands...”
I took it to mean the militia militia. Have not heard any more about it since.
It looks as though the governor is not too happy with the Feds. I thought the governor is commander of the State militia, or has that changed?
I understand your skepticism. Never change that.
Actually, this is located on lands ceded to the US govt from Mexico after the Mexican American War, in 1848.
OTOH, there were Land Grant lands(either Spanish or Mexican) located within those lands ceded by Mexico, such as the Cabeza de Vaca land grant, aka the Baca Ranch as it was known by the gringos.
It was after 1848 that the US took control by building forts through out the west to deal with the Indians.
As you may or may not know, when the feds sold these lands they would sell either 360 or 180 acres. Initially, the "Commons" were to be used by all to "graze out on", but that led to conflicts over grass and water, so they replaced that with the lease system, in place today.
The problem arises because some have had these leases for so very long, they think the land is theirs and/or that the feds don't have the authority exercise oversight over the lands and/or have the authority to withdraw these lands from the lease system.
My Political Views
I am a right social libertarian
Right: 7.41, Libertarian: 3.67
Political Spectrum Quiz
I'm against the expansion of the federal government.
I'm also against gibsmethats. Cliven Bundy is a gibsmethat.
Other ranchers throughout the west are paying the grazing fee. Heck, Cliven Bundy paid it until twenty years ago, when his grazing contract expired and the new contract provided for a higher grazing fee. At that point, he declared 'gibsmethat.'
This will go unnoticed by many on this thread.
He wouldn’t need it. Holder would see to it that the BLM didn’t enforce the court’s order.
He wouldn’t need it. Holder would see to it that the BLM didn’t enforce the court’s order.
Yeah, I researched the area geographically a little and noticed that in addition to being very close to Las Vegas, it was also maybe even closer to Lake Mead (with all of the Fed regulations associated).
Plenty of bureacracies with SWAT Teams to come down on him.
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The Law is malleable and selectively enforced.
The State could intervene and claim the land for itself
Any number of other legal theories could be generated and pursued, but the gov't has deep pockets held by the Chinese.
This guy has obviously pissed of the go'vt in their drive to drive ranchers out of business.
They could have easily just waited until he died and his offspring were not ready to take over the operation.
What is their rush?
How does an investment of $3,000,000 pay off?
Is Dingy ready to develop the property? Steal the water?
There has to be a much larger back story to this involving individuals yet to be identified.
I think he took issue with the level of service and cost thereof being provided by the "Public Servants".
I think he took issue with the level of service and cost thereof being provided by the "Public Servants".
Yes the Governor is in charge of the State Militia. Then as far as I know there are whats called the unorganized militias which are perfectly lawful under the Constitution and many states including GA have them.
This whole thing appears to be a very complicated case. I think Mr. Bundy is trying to defend what he thinks is a patent claim on his grazing rights. So it would theoretically preclude in his mind paying grazing fees. These claims are handed down from one generation to another.
We have patent claims in GA on public land and as far as I know there are no fees paid for those claims. They have been handed down since the 1800’s. Usually you will see a marker rock and if you turn it over it will have a family name and date on it. You are not supposed to move them or fool with them.
Hopefully this will not turn into a Waco or Ruby Ridge. This country is a tinderbox right now. All it is going to take is the right spark. IMO.
Actually the numbers have gone up every year. 205 in 2011. 237 last year. Now, the increase is mostly due to release of captive-bred birds, but a few chicks have hatched in the wild. Part of the problem is that condors are just naturally slow-reproducing. And lead poisoning actually is a problem, to the extent that they've pulled birds from the wild to treat them. Whether that justifies a lead ammo ban as proposed in California is a different matter. Another problem is chick mortality caused by parents feeding them trash. At the end of the day, they may be simply too fragile a species to survive in the wild in the modern world despite the millions spent to save them.
It's interesting to read the link you provided, though. As you say, even the wind farm opponents concede that they can't actually PROVE any birds have been killed. They just assume it's so and that there's some conspiracy to keep them from knowing about it. Again, my natural skepticism comes out.
If you don't like the level of service or cost of something you are renting from someone else, deciding to keep the 'something' and not pay for it is not a moral option.
The US gov’t in this case is an out of State utility operating without a State Utility Commission to provide oversight.
It's interesting that Cliven Bundy is now grazing his cattle there.
That's not the property for which Cliven Bundy was paying grazing fees, or on which he was grazing his cattle, prior to 1993. The Bundys had an agreement to graze their cattle on part of the old Bunkerville grazing allotment.
After Cliven Bundy quit paying his grazing fees on the Bunkerville grazing allotment, he expanded to use the Gold Butte area and portions of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area as well.
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