Dear Anti-Vaxxers: You Want Pure Nature? OK, Die Young.

Time ^ | April 2 | Jeffrey Kluger

[Hojczyk]

None of the New York parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children today were around the city in the summer of 1916, which is good for them and good for any of the kids they might have had. It was in that summer that 27,000 children nationwide were struck by a polio outbreak, 9,300 of them in New York. Of those 9,300 victims, 2,700 died. The Salk family at 116th St. and Madison Ave. escaped the scourge, meaning that their two-year-old son Jonas was spared. History notes that when he grew up, he had a little score-settling to do with the poliovirus.

Parents who oppose vaccines are not only misinformed, they’re spoiled, having grown up in a world that stands behind the berms built by the scientists and vaccine developers who came before them. If you’ve never seen measles — or polio or whooping cough or mumps — you have the luxury of believing they don’t exist.

“We live in a very healthy community,” said one of the sublimely glib doctors cited in the Mother Jones story. “The incidence of these diseases are very low, not only here but nationwide. And so it’s safe to do a modified vaccine schedule, in my opinion.”

But the incidence of these diseases is very low precisely because most doctors and parents don’t think the way you do and do vaccinate on schedule. “We live in a very dry community,” the doctor might as well have said. “So it’s safe not to maintain the levees and flood walls that have protected us until now, in my opinion.”

And so you drown; and so unvaccinated children get sick. The words “in my opinion” are not themselves some kind of rhetorical vaccine. They can, instead, be the pathogen. Like all pathogens, they can kill.

[Valpal1]

That article doesn’t mean what you think it means. And switching the subject from measles to pertussis doesn’t magically make you correct regarding measles vax efficacy. They aren’t the same disease.

Bacterial vaccines have never worked as well as viral vaccines. Thus the more frequent boosters for tetanus and pertussis.

Also having the diseases tetanus or pertussis will not confer lifetime immunity either, unlike most virals like polio or measles. However, I don’t want to have them to get immunity to them, TYVM.

[Fire_on_High]

Few years ago I asked about that at the doc’s. Last vaccinations I’d had was the college boosters, and they told me I didn’t need MMR, but TDaP would be a good idea. I didn’t think to ask about the reasoning...I should have!

[Marie]

Uh. Yeah.

Me.

I lost my shot records. When I got married to my soldier we were to be stationed in Germany. As my shot records were in the wind, I had no records of vaccinations. Rather than go through the entire series again, all I had to do was get the titers, then I would be good.

All my titers were negative. This is after my college went through a measles outbreak and I had to get a booster to move into the dorms.

So fully vaccinated. Booster at 18. Still negative titer.

I had to go through the entire series again, as if I’d never had vaccinations. It took a full year. (I eventually found my records - tucked in a box with baby photos - and they let me go to Germany, on the condition that I completed the vaccinations.)

Now how rare is that? How many people lose their records and need to even get the titer done to move to a foreign country? What are the odds that I’d even be tested?

Yeah. It can happen. I’ll do the homework to see if *anyone* has even looked into the broader implications when I get the chance.

[Valpal1]

I would expect many people born and vaccinated in the 60’s have lost their vaccination records. The schools then, weren’t so rigid about the record keeping. My mother who has operated a private Montessori preschool since I was a child didn’t have to start proving compliance until the 80’s. Of course, the schedule back then was far more simple than it is now.

I’m pro-vax but I think the public health experts have gotten out of control and that required vaccinations should be limited to the serious diseases whose communicability makes them prone to epidemics and that the ones that require body fluid transmission should be optional rather than required.

It’s ridiculous to be jabbing newborns with HPV and HepB unless they have an identified risk like a wart covered drug using mother that works in the porn industry.

[Talisker]

The answer to that is contained in herd immunity.

You hypocrite - herd immunity protects the UNvaccinated IF the vaccines work. It has nothing to do with requiring anyone to BE vaccinated! You are completely REVERSING the concept!

No, I won't force people to get vaccinated. Far from it.

Like hell "you" won't - ALL of this pro-vaccine crap is to support new mandatory laws, which will ultimately be enforced at gunpoint, like every other law.

But should the unvaccinated get polio, pertussis, measles, etc, I will quarantine them. And I believe it should be permanant in nature, like they used to do with tuberculosis.

Permanent because even if they overcome the disease, they are still a threat? A threat to who - those who are vaccinated? So not only is your vaccination so IMPOTENT that is cannot protect vaccinated people from infected people, it ALSO cannot protect vaccinated people from people who have survived the disease and who are no longer infected! And what does that say? It says that those who are not infected then have a STRONGER immune system than those who are vaccinated - and so you say you WILL quarrantine them - for LIFE.

How? I mean, you said you won't "force" people to get vaccinated. But here you're putting them into concentration camps for life. How will you get them to go? With government guns, that's how, hypocrite. And why? Because they won't take the vaccine that you admit DOESN'T WORK.

Lemme tell you something - you're already infected with something far, far more dangerous than "polio, pertussis, measles, etc." You're infected with a corruption of the soul, and a black and deadly nypocrisy, and a desire to infect healthy people with poisons and jail those who refuse your death squads.

And history is WELL aquainted with the results of your sickness.

[To Hell With Poverty]

I think the issue here is percentages. As you mentioned earlier, women who survived childbirth, accidents and epidemics could be expected to produce children for years and years before hitting their late 30’s-40’s. That means the vast majority of the population was born earlier in their mothers’ lives. Since so many women today put off motherhood until that borderline-risk age, that large pool of people born to young mothers is shrinking. Therefore the percentage of children with autism is climbing. Not because there is more of some mystery ingredient floating around but because there are fewer children born to young mothers who would otherwise be keeping the ratios constant.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

Yes - the government lies about most everything.
No - the government is not lying about the need for kids to get vaccinated.

I know that the two statements sound vaguely self-contradictory but nevertheless I stand by both of them.

[Black Agnes]

I’ve thought about that as well. Those kids would be devlishly easy to find in previous census reports. In one census you’d have the 20yr old unmarried (statistically male) child living at home with parents. Next census would be the 30yr old unmarried male living at home with parents. Next census would likely find him, at age 40, living with a sibling. In the rural south families didn’t put kin in ‘the home’. They took care of them.

Can’t find more than 2 or 3 of those kids in my family tree research. And I’ve looked at literally hundreds of families and thousands of offspring. One of them was my great aunt. Too long in the birth canal at a (kitchen scale weight) of 12+lbs and her mother’s firstborn to boot. Lived with her parents till they became too old to care for her then lived with siblings. I knew her when I was younger. Definitely not autistic. Just a 4 or 5yr old her entire life. Made eye contact, talked, played with her dolls and did simple household tasks. Was potty trained at 2 or 3yrs old even. Friendly even. Loved to have ‘company’, just like most 4 or 5yr olds. In previous non pc times she was referred to as retarded.

Of her great grandfathers 1200+ great grandchildren she’s the only one I’ve found that did NOT either perish in childhood (and not always from dread disease. snakebite, ‘infection’, and fire did a number on kids as well) or get killed in a war that failed to marry and have children.

My great aunt who’s 95yrs young has never seen a generation of little boys that fail to make eye contact. And in our community it’s the RARE exception of a woman that fails to have children by age 30. Most of them have 2 or 3 by age 25. Still with the little boys and no eye contact though.

[To Hell With Poverty]

Unfortunately there is indeed a vast number of boys who won’t make eye contact, as in the VBS story upthread. I believe that has as much to do with societal breakdown and plain old bad manners due to lax parenting as anything else. Lord knows we are becoming an antisocial bunch even without the rise in autism!

[Black Agnes]

These parents do spank. That’s not something that’s been necessary to ‘spank into’ boys. As I said, my mom taught 3rd grade beginning in ‘64, making eye contact was a typical rebellious little male thing to do. It wasn’t necessary to ‘teach’ that. It’s become necessary to ‘teach’ eye contact.

We live in lower spanklandia where families begin at early ages and kids are churched and spanked still. I’m in my late 40’s and one of the girls in my HS graduating class is a GREAT grandmother now. And HER grandmother is still alive. That toddler has a living GREAT GREAT GREAT grandmother right now. And my HS classmate has a grandson with autism, and SHE isn’t 50 yet.