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Turkey threatens Russia
Ukrainian Policy ^

Posted on 03/18/2014 9:58:21 AM PDT by meatloaf

"The threat to close the Bosphorus to Russia comes from a report by Hvylya, citing a Turkish diplomatic source. According to the source, Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan yesterday spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the phone and warned of the consequences for conflict with Ukraine. The Hvylya source was also reported on by UNIAN."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia; Syria
KEYWORDS: bosphorus; brzezinski; crimea; erdogan; euthugs; globalistchessgame; iran; islam; lebanon; nato; natopowergrab; obama; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; syria; turkey; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; waronterror; yuliatymoshenko
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To: pierrem15

Lol! Let’s make it simple. If Turkey does this, it’ll likely start a war. Which cites are you going to let burn for the Crimea? Starting a war with a nuclear super power isn’t a great idea


101 posted on 03/18/2014 5:10:11 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: RinaseaofDs

Turkey seems to have a plan and the gonads to pursue it. They should be giving lessons to Hussein and J F’ing Kerry.


102 posted on 03/18/2014 6:04:59 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Who but a TYRANT shoves down another man's throat what he has exempted himself from?)
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To: redgolum

No one is talking about a war- yet. Why isn’t Putin afraid of a nuclear war? Anyone rational knows that barring an attempt to destroy one of the major powers they will not be used. Putin knows there are lots of people in the West who think as you do, so he feels free to do as he pleases, whereas I think we should call his bluff, for example, by declaring the independence of the Republic of Kaliningrad.


103 posted on 03/18/2014 7:22:23 PM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: dfwgator

I always thought the weakness in our system was the lack of a process of a no confidence vote like Canada and the UK have.


104 posted on 03/18/2014 7:41:33 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: rktman

I wish someone would give Putin the “bird”.


105 posted on 03/18/2014 7:53:46 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: pierrem15

Putin knows that his lines of communication are close, ours are to far to do much. But the issue isn’t just Putin.

I don’t think he wants nuclear war. But quite frankly we start acting all macho next door to a superpower and it will happen. There are no good guys in this deal, none. A coup removed a legally elected government, and then a counter coup was launched in an area that didn’t really want to be part of the Ukraine anyway (and was forced to be during the Soviet era).

If Putin gets mad, all he has to do is shut down our supply lines to Afghanistan. Which by the way, runs through Russia. We made the Paks so mad they started joining in on the convoy attacks, and we cut a deal with Russia to allow supplies to our guys.

Start thinking strategy, stop thinking emotionally. Obama and Hagel lost this one, big time, but we have no abilities to project power in and around the Black Sea. It would be like Russia getting mad if we starting doing something they didn’t like in Nebraska. There isn’t any way to get there.


106 posted on 03/18/2014 7:53:49 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

I was going to say the same about Erdogan.


107 posted on 03/18/2014 7:55:00 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: WhiskeyX

One way to possibly deter Russian military adventures elsewhere is to place US consulates in threatened cities or even on major military bases, and have the host state declare them as sovereign American soil.

Might work; might not. Will never know until you try it. (Alamagordo, NM, 1945).


108 posted on 03/18/2014 7:58:02 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: dfwgator

It always amazes me that so many people are willing to give up the lives of millions for a piece of land that has long been out of their grasp.


109 posted on 03/18/2014 7:59:06 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I don’t think NATO would let Turkey join so that they could get in a war with Russia - and lose their gas supply for next winter.


110 posted on 03/18/2014 8:52:00 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: lodi90

Turkey blocking the Bosphorus would have real lasting impact, visibility and world-wide effects - whereas most of our sanctions wouldn’t.


111 posted on 03/18/2014 8:53:21 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Truth29

I for one would enjoy seeing the jihadists in Ankara get their asses kicked


112 posted on 03/18/2014 8:56:08 PM PDT by montag813
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To: WhiskeyX
"Russia’s forfeiting of Turkey’s permission to transit the Bosporus Straits practically negates the value of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, Russia’s only warm water naval port and commercial seaport, and devastates the Crimea’s merchant marine economy."

Yes, and the Bosphorus would be easy to block. Very tight, slow navigation in places there.


113 posted on 03/18/2014 8:57:59 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: pierrem15

“Some members of the Senate and House need quietly to approach Obozo and inform him he needs to replace John “Swimming to Cambodia” Kerry and Chucky “Never saw a defense cut I didn’t like” Hagel immediately with some competent secretaries who will run US defense and foreign policy until Bambi leaves office”

do we even have any elected officials that care more about this country than their own political careers?


114 posted on 03/18/2014 9:30:32 PM PDT by willywill
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To: tbw2

“I don’t think NATO would let Turkey join so that they could get in a war with Russia - and lose their gas supply for next winter.”

Bzzzt, Turkey has been a member of NATO for more than a half-century, 18 February 1952. NATO was organized only a few years earlier on 4 April 1949. Wake up and read a little history before embarrassing yourself.

The Ukraine was associated with NATO by way of the Individual Partnership Action Plan leading to full NATO membership, but in 2010 Yanukovych canceled the plans in collaboration with his Russian secret police boss, Putin.


115 posted on 03/18/2014 9:38:06 PM PDT by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: montag813

So would I. A Vlad Tepes level of ass kicking. Mohacs, turned inside out. I would expect a seriously ugly fight though. Turks have always been hardcore soldiers, and I think they would end up fighting for their lives.


116 posted on 03/19/2014 12:21:33 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (My citizenship is not here.)
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To: Almondjoy

Chickenhawks have nests which are both warm and soft.


117 posted on 03/19/2014 12:22:32 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (My citizenship is not here.)
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To: redgolum

Why is anyone of significance afraid of the Black Sea Fleet? Because of the name? Good God, barring a truly catastrophic mistake in strategy, the ITALIAN NAVY alone could defeat Putin’s Black Sea fleet, probably with “one hand tied behind their back”.


118 posted on 03/19/2014 3:18:03 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Owl558

Agreed.

Russia has potential problems in many places all along their borders. 2 or 3 Afghanistan type scenarios, simultaneously, and interruption of the pipelines through Ukraine to Europe, would put them in a tremendous bind, both militarily and economically.

That said, there is a lot of exaggerated fear of Muslims here, too. Not that they are not dangerous: We sure as heck don’t want Iran with nukes, and there is always the potential for regional dustups or a 911 type event here. However, the US has been so “insulated” from truly dire threats for long enough that we don’t think very clearly. Given time, the export sales of energy, and allowance of Russia to take little bites of expansion, one at a time, Russia’s centuries-long term mindset of Empire is CLEARLY a greater strategic threat. Russia has organization, vast and varied resources, real strategic planning, technological ability, and at present, a highly competent leader. Their biggest weakness might be the rampant internal corruption. The Muslims have oil and gas, even worse corruption, in most cases, and a self-defeating death-cult mindset in which they fight each other as readily as “infidels.”


119 posted on 03/19/2014 3:45:21 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: manc

Yes, and when Hispanics are the majority in some US state, we’ll just let it join Mexico, right? Then the next, and the next...


120 posted on 03/19/2014 3:48:51 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: redgolum

The Ukrainian Parliament, whose membership had NOT suddenly changed, LEGALLY impeached (in effect) Yanukovych, who had trampled all over the Ukrainian constitution, thrown his opoposition in jail via kangaroo courts, etc.

Behind the scenes, the same oligarchs to which the Ukraine Parliament has always answered, are still in place.

If the Parliament had been forcibly replaced in large numbers, then the tossing of Yanukovych (who’s election was probably fraudulent anyway), would have been illegal. But, that “if” did not happen. And... the last I heard, there were still many protesters in Maydan — not so much the neo-Nazis, but the same people who made up the bulk of the mass protests, wanting an end to the corruption. (By now, I’d think there would be large scale anti-Russian protests as well. Who can blame them?)

Now it is true that it is hard to find a Ukrainian politician who is not corrupt. However, some are more tyrannical than others.

Is Yulia Tymoshenko (probably a more important voice for Ukraine today than the entire present exec. branch) a Nazi?

That said, I still find all the propaganda and internal politics “noise” and essentially irrelevant, in the larger picture. What has been shown is that the US (and apparently most of its people) are dishonorable and won’t live up to a big time Security Assurance.

Our worthlessness is the real problem, as it will lead to NO US ally trusting us, a major arms race (nuclear in several cases), and most likely an eventual regional nuclear war (if we are lucky it stays that size), as conflicts break out as others move into the vacuum we leave behind. This is MUCH more likely than Putin deciding to use nukes in virtually any scenario immediately arising from this Ukraine situation.


121 posted on 03/19/2014 4:54:53 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Paul R.
"Our worthlessness is the real problem, as it will lead to NO US ally trusting us, a major arms race (nuclear in several cases), and most likely an eventual regional nuclear war (if we are lucky it stays that size), as conflicts break out as others move into the vacuum we leave behind."

Thank you! This is the concept that the Paulbots failed to grasp. While I agreed with Ron Paul on many things domestically. This is the reason he was disqualified from ever being considered commander in chief. He thinks our foreign policy should be run like it's 1789. Yes, George Washington's advice to beware of foreign entaglements was good advice back then. However, George Washington did not have to deal with the threats of nuclear war. If he had, his opinion may very well have changed.

Yes, I think our military should be used only in advancing our interests and not be used willy nilly around the world. However, it is in our interests to be a leader on the world stage and honor our world commitments. Power abhors a vacuum and if we don't step up, someone else will. Our weakness on the world stage has consequences. As you mentioned, many other powers perceiving our fecklessnes to help them, could turn to nuclear devices and other less savory partners.

Even a limited nuclear war on the other side of the world would affect us here in the United States. The nuclear fallout would affect us. Turkey is making a courageous decision and though many things they have done lately have angered us, this is in our interests. It is more damaging than anything we are currently doing to Russia. If Turkey needs our assistance with Naval help, we should be supplying it to them.
122 posted on 03/19/2014 5:44:16 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Paul R.
LOL! Maybe the French Navy, the Italians aren't that bad, but my Navy friends say the sailors don't really care to much about fighting.

The real question is can Russia land forces in Turkey in response to an shot from the Turks before anyone can do much about it.

123 posted on 03/19/2014 6:09:44 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Psalm 144
Turks have always been hardcore soldiers, and I think they would end up fighting for their lives.

They are, and I have always admired the Turks, especially the secular democracy Ataturk managed to setup. But the Islamists have spent years to infiltrate the military in order to violate the constitution.

124 posted on 03/19/2014 6:23:24 AM PDT by montag813
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To: redgolum
but we have no abilities to project power in and around the Black Sea

You mean like Russia has no ability to project power in Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua (and now) El Salvador?

We have many assets in the form of NATO members near and on the Black Sea, all of whom are seriously shaken by what Putin is doing. There are also ample opportunities to pressure Putin elsewhere, first of all with really hard economic sanctions and helping Ukraine, then attacking his client states (Syria) and going after other positions in Europe (Belorussia, Kaliningrad, Abkhazia and Ossetia). Afghanistan is a sideshow at the moment, and as far as I can tell we will have few (if any) troops there by the end of the year.

We don't lack the means: we lack the will.

125 posted on 03/19/2014 8:03:34 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: Paul R.

Clinton set a precedent when he allowed Kosovo to leave Serbia and help the muslims.


126 posted on 03/19/2014 9:55:43 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc
Clinton set a precedent when he allowed Kosovo to leave Serbia and help the muslims.

And Wesley Clark almost starting WWIII with the Russians at Pristina Airport.

127 posted on 03/19/2014 9:56:56 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: pierrem15

How can we get a carrier group into the Black Sea and hold it?

Not the same as Cuba or the South American countries. Though the fact we let them slide away is very dangerous.


128 posted on 03/19/2014 10:23:43 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: dfwgator

yea I remember that and you are quite right.

Democrats always screw up foreign policy and they think they should take the high road all the time


129 posted on 03/19/2014 10:46:22 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: redgolum

I wouldn’t advise that either due to local Russian air superiority. But the same applies to the Russian fleet: the Black Sea isn’t that big: 243 miles from Constanta Romania to Sevastopol, probably about the same from the Turkish coast or Odessa in Ukraine.


130 posted on 03/19/2014 10:59:01 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: meatloaf

A very old joke....

If Russia attacks Turkey from the rear, will Greece Help?


131 posted on 03/19/2014 11:01:16 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Paul R.

“That said, there is a lot of exaggerated fear of Muslims here, too.”

We lack confidence in out culture. We build our enemies into supermen and see ourselves as helpless (generally speaking, of course).


132 posted on 03/19/2014 11:51:34 AM PDT by Owl558 (Those who remember George Santayana are doomed to repeat him)
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To: meatloaf

133 posted on 03/19/2014 11:53:22 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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