Posted on 03/10/2014 5:51:07 AM PDT by C19fan
Ten city blocks of Manhattan became a river of black Sunday as 50,000 dark-clad ultra-Orthodox Jews took to the streets to protest Israel's proposal to force their young boys into its army. The gathering took up a stretch of Water Street, with demonstrators standing behind police barricades amid tight security as they prayed in solidarity with their brethren in Israel. 'These kids, a lot of them don't know how to hold a gun. They don't know what physical warfare is,' said Long Island rabbinical student Shmuel Gruis.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
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Try to understand this: some of us take Israel's side because we see them as fellow members of Western Civilization besieged by barbarians, rather than purely because of their Jewishness. I would support Israel against the Muslims even if every single Israeli converted to Buddhism today.
My take is that zc is a typical liberal jew.
I had enough of these Hasidim. They are a pain in the butt to Israeli society and they are a pain in the butt here in NY. Some haredi Israeli guy commented to me that he is haredi (very orthodox)and he flew planes in the Israeli air force—sounds like he’s the exception to the rule over there. OK the one good thing about the Hasidim from an electoral point of view is that sometimes they vote GOP if they see it their collective interest....otherwise they are a bunch of get-overs who will connive the system any way they can. How can every male among claim that he is a rabbi? Since when did Judaism become a pacifist religion like the Amish for instance? Give me a break!
No, he isn't. Although my politically conservative Jewish friends do not look kindly on many of the Hasidem, including especially the Satmars, ZC apparently has a soft spot in his heart for them. I can certainly understand how suggesting that any Jew should maybe get the heck out of Israel would be offensive.
I will therefore retract my earlier statements to that effect and offer my apologies. However, I stand by my statement that the Satmars need to live like the Amish and not take advantage of Israeli government sponsored services including medical, educational, and any other social assistance programs. You either abhor the state and divorce yourself completely or you give Caesar his due.
Yes there are a lot of them on welfare here—but not like in Israel. The government has been forced to finance their stay home and study Torah instead of going out to work, joining the military to defend a country that the Arabs want to drive into the sea, etc etc. The reason many of them are on welfare is because the men are very uneducated except in the realm of Torah/Talmud study. There are a number who have gone on to get a higher education. There are a number of different groups of black hats. The Lubovitch, the Satmar, and a whole bunch of different other ones. Thw Lubovitch are a bit more sophisticated and do a lot of good work in their own community —the Satmar, forget about it—very backward. The other groups I am not too familiar with—they are all named after the city in Europe where their head rabbi was. I don’t want any orthodox Jew in here giving me lip that I am anti-Semitic, because you’re playing the same game as the Obama folks when up against any criticism play the race card—(who did they learn it from socialist Jews who don’t give a damn about Israel anyway). Haredi get you soft butts out there and defend your country. You in Israel are in a different situation than we are in America at present. Your butts are much more on the line.
And the Neturei carta went to Iran when Ahmadinejad had his Holocaust denial forum. But most Hasids in Israel benefit from this policy that the government wants to change. I realize that part of this is that the Satmars have an anti-Zionist stance—but yet they are benefitting from the Zionist state.
too bad
SC is correct. Slice it with or against the grain, there is no unity among sectarians. Each is secure in his own little lock box. Toleration and mutual support are requisites for living with so many damnably wrongheaded imbeciles. All we really are good at is fighting with each other.
NO their ancestors didn’t survive a caliphate—they are Ashkenazi Jews—not Sefardic—ok they had to deal with the pogroms etc etc etc—but not the caliphate—their sefardi brethren had to deal with that.
It wouldn’t be so bad if it were that way—where you have a number of bright fellows who become Torah bokhers and the community supports them because later on they will be a religious asset to the community—but everyone being a bokher boy forget about it —totally meshuge!
“They are a pain in the butt to Israeli society and they are a pain in the butt here in NY.”
Like I said, liberals. They are pious and arrogant. They think they and they alone know what it is to be a Jew. Odds are they are Ashkenazi and bear little resemblance to ancient Jews.
The German Jews you are right —not orthodox. But if anyone was living in a dream world it was them. They thought they were assimilated, accepted by German society. Surprise Surprise, Surprise Gomer! Uncle Adolf comes along and after a few years in power there is Kristallnacht—and he wrote about his “love of Jews” in Mein Kampf, but the German Jews could not see the forest for the trees because their rose colored glasses were on too tightly.
Also, keep in mind that rabbis voluntarily supported by their synagogue members is not the same as demanding life-long welfare payments just because you study Torah.
a rabbi is earning his keep —because that is his job—just like a minister or a priest.
“This summer the issue of everyone bearing an “equal burden” for national defence has boiled over in Israeli politics. Yet the conscription argument may be a diversion from the real economic and political crisis. The haredi community is overwhelmingly poor, underemployed, and dependent on the rest of Israel. It is also growing rapidly, creating an ever-larger weight for wider society to carry. Unless ultra-Orthodox education changes and haredim are integrated into the workplace, the Israeli economy could collapse. “We could lose the country,” as a leading Israeli economist, Dan Ben-David, warns.”
They don’t see themselves as a separate people. Also, there were a small stream of Ashkenazim making aliyah to Israel from the Galut throughout those centuries.
Thanks for the information and dialogue. Very interesting.
Jeff:"There's a goyim term for such women: suckers. "
What religion isn't supported by the women? My grandmother cooked and cleaned for the Catholic Priests of a huge inner city church her entire life...whilst the Priests "studied". They never lifted a finger to help her ...not even when she was in her eighties.
Their names will go down in history..she has already been forgotten to history except for her family. By worldly terms, now there was a sucker.
At least the Jews believe that the feminine G-d light/power is in exile, rather than a pothole to be forgotten to the male forever. I'll never forget how the Romans treated my Grandmother, who devoted her life to them...never.
Complete f-cking putzes. Every one of them.
I am an Orthodox Jew, as was my father, and his father.
There is no conflict between being an observant Jewish person and serving in the military.
I served 16 years in the IDF, and shot down 2 MIGS and had countless ground attacks.
My father before me served in the IDF and the US Marines, Vietnam, 2 tours. He earned a Silver Star.
His father before him served in the IDF, the US Army Air Corp, and the Kaiser’s Air Force in WWI, where he shot down a Frenchman and an American and earned the Iron Cross (and was nominated for the Blue Max by his CO, but didn’t get it).
I am not sure about his father before him, but apparently he was in the Prussian Military, position and service unknown.
All these putzes can go piss on themselves.
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