Posted on 03/10/2014 5:51:07 AM PDT by C19fan
Ten city blocks of Manhattan became a river of black Sunday as 50,000 dark-clad ultra-Orthodox Jews took to the streets to protest Israel's proposal to force their young boys into its army. The gathering took up a stretch of Water Street, with demonstrators standing behind police barricades amid tight security as they prayed in solidarity with their brethren in Israel. 'These kids, a lot of them don't know how to hold a gun. They don't know what physical warfare is,' said Long Island rabbinical student Shmuel Gruis.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
The Satmar do not believe in a social contract, a concept which they would associate with the secularism of the Enlightenment.
They believe in a covenant between themselves and the Almighty, and they reject any entity or organization that they think interferes with their observance, including the government.
The other reason is that yes, while there will be attrition of some of their children, others will return, and likely with ideas that will revitalize their communities.
They do not believe that any ideas that come from sources outside of their community have any vitalizing effect on them.
If it comes down to it, they would rather pay jizyah again than have the Israeli government intrude upon their personal lives.
They are protesting in Israel too.
Oh it is EXTREMELY tangled.
Here is an Israeli Joke from about 35 years ago.
(QUESTION) Why is it illegal to make love on the sidewalk in Israel?
(ANSWER) Because, as soon as you start, 90 people will approach you and tell you that you are not doing it correctly.
Most of the 6 million Jews slaughtered by the Nazis were from Eastern Europe, often poor, rural (shtetl) villagers who knew little of the outside world. Those who came from sizeable cities and towns often had no military experience, no different from the majority of non-Jews. For the most part, they were confined to ghetto-type living before the war, and relatively easy to round up.
Yet there was resistance of all kinds, usually too little, too late. See Warsaw ghetto uprising for example, or better yet read up on Maj. General Sidney Schachnow, the only American Army general who was also incarcerated as a child in a concentration camp. (He is a founder of today's Special Forces.)
It is puzzling to me as well how most American Jews do not support the Second Amendment, especially with Israel having its IDF dispell any notion that prayer alone will keep you safe.
There's a goyim term for such women: suckers.
I'm thinking that it has become part of Jewish culture that a strong central government is their protector against any anti-Jewish local hostility.
The essence of the 2nd Amendment is to ensure that local people retain their ability to counter-act a too-powerful government.
ping
#36
I support a volunteer army, but if we were Israel surrounded by and attacked by enemies daily, I would put conditions on being a citizen to include defending the nation.
I know a guy who is Swiss, born and raised, but is Israeli as well. He was very happy to have served his 2 years even though he identifies as Swiss more than Israeli. Many of these people do not live in Israel but want the privileges of it, such as Israeli passports. What have they done to earn it?
I believe no nation should ever conscript and do not desire Israel or the US to do so, but if foreign living persons want the privilege of having Israeli passports they should be required to do something for them.
(ANSWER) Because, as soon as you start, 90 people will approach you and tell you that you are not doing it correctly.
I have been reliably informed that where there are two Jews, there are three opinions! ;-)
The same thing can be said of us conservatives! LOL!
Then they can move to Brooklyn and be part of the diaspora. It's hard for me to feel sympathy for these folks. I'm not really seeing it as a religious issue. It's more a matter of giving unto Caesar. It's time they do their share or get the heck out.
I hope I don't sound anti-Semitic here. I most definitely am not. However, many of these ultra-Orthodox men don't provide tangible support for their families. They live off welfare and impregnate their wives. I understand it's their tradition, but I also know that a man's job is to provide for his family, not see that they suck off the teat of government.
Keep in mind that these groups also don’t use a lot of public services that are tax funded...public schools, parks, some transportation...
There is most definitely a Tradition for the men to study while their wives earn all the income while bearing 7,8,9 or more children.
If the Ultra-Orhtodox beliefs are so extremely against supporting the existence of the state of Israel, then the rest of the Jewish population in Israel should be quit of them in every Israeli state service to them.
How wonderful for them as Orthodox Jews that they can actually live in modern Israel, an Israel they will not defend.
I can’t imagine any ultra Orthodox family sending their kids to a secular government school.
In order for that system to work, each such man would need to find a wife willing to live her assigned role.
I would imagine that if a significant number of ultra-Orthodox women went into the IDF, and subsequently decided they wanted no further part of that life, and decided to marry a Conservative guy who would support the family, the system would break down real quick.
I thought there were Charter schools for the ultra Orthodox but apparently I was mistaken. However, as a man who’s put 11 children through Catholic schools, I can’t say not using the public schools is a compelling argument for not giving Caesar his due.
I thought we went to war with England when they tried to impress American Citizens into their navy.
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