If Scotland Votes for Independence, It’s Going to Need an Army

War is Boring ^ | 1-22-2014 | Peter Vine

[DesScorp]

This year voters in Scotland will decide whether to remain within the United Kingdom. Scottish sovereignty rides on two things: any eventual negotiations between London and Edinburgh and the gradually evolving position of the Scottish National Party, the primary backer of the independence bid. And if it happens, the resulting military reform is going to be a mess. If the vote is yay, the most optimistic date for negotiations is March 2016, but it isn’t out of the question that sticking points could push this back. Defense could be one of those points.

In its white paper on a newly independent Scotland, the SNP lists the potential new country’s needs in its first 10 years. The paper calls for an annual military budget of around £2.3 billion—$4.1 billion—with a standing army, navy and air force with 15,000 personnel.

It also declares that existing Scottish regiments would carry on their names, identities and traditions—and that those lost in previous defense re-organizations would be brought back.

Scotland would reposition its defense posture towards patrolling the coast, the North Atlantic and the North Sea and defending its maritime assets—specifically fishing grounds and oil. Scotland hopes to acquire 12 Eurofighter Typhoons from the Royal Air Force, two frigates from the Royal Navy’s current fleet and several offshore patrol vessels such as the current River class being built for the U.K. by BAE systems.

More at the link...

[DesScorp]

"GB is socialist BECAUSE of the overwhemingly Leftist electorate in Scotland."

Well, not quite. To be honest, the NHS-loving denizens of England chose Socialism themselves after WWII. It wasn't forced on them. They picked that route. It's just that the Scots are even more to the left than the English now. One of the reasons the Labour Party is fighting tooth and nail to keep Scotland in the Union is that the farther south you go in the UK, the higher percentage of Tory and LibDem voters. Scotland is very much an anchor for Labour.

[DoodleDawg]

Because you're going to get Greece with cold weather

Funny, but very accurate.

[ameribbean expat]

It’s funny to watch the Scots and the Welsh have two completely different reactions to independence. Scots get their kilts all bunched up and have no clue that they are about to have to pay for a helluva lot more than they do now...the Welsh took exactly ten seconds to realize what independence meant in fiscal terms and don’t even consider it outside of hardcore nationalist corners of society.

[morphing libertarian]

Why

What would happen if they had no army

[DesScorp]

"...The RAF’s presence in Scotland is being drawn down and with the scrapping of the Nimrod fleet, the U.K. has no airborne maritime patrol capability at all.

WHAT????

It's impossible to keep a first-class military when all the money is going to welfare, pensions, the NHS, etc. This is the path the British people themselves chose. This is why the British Empire died. This is why I call them Not So Great Britain now.

[DesScorp]

"What would happen if they had no army?"

For one, the Russians would use their sea and air space as a forward area of operations against NATO. Two, Russia, while making diplomatically nice, would basically run roughshod over their North Sea oil fields, and the money from those fields is one of their primary reasons for seceding... they want those oil fields all to themselves. Kind of hard to do sea control without a navy, though.

What's funny is that the Scots aren't worried about the Russians at all. Whatever military they do muster will, I guarantee you, be turned towards the English border. England will always be the Bogeyman that the SNP uses to keep the Scots in line. You'll see posters, propoganda campaigns, etc, about how England is always about to invade. Mark it.

[warsaw44]

Is there a strong Welsh independence movement?

[morphing libertarian]

So the Russians would be intimated by a scot military

Don’t believe it

Just pay uk as needed

[jdege]

The RNZN has how many warships?

Two:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_New_Zealand_Navy#Naval_Combat_Force

Naval Combat Force

The naval combat force currently consists of two Anzac class frigates: HMNZS Te Kaha and HMNZS Te Mana. Both ships are based at the Devonport Naval Base on Auckland's North Shore. Te Kaha was commissioned on 26 July 1997 and Te Mana on 10 December 1999.

The specifications and armaments of the two ships are identical.

[docbnj]

I do know something about this Scottish National Party. They have murky and disturbing past, including founders who were strongly anti-semitic (despite the fact that there are not many Jews in Scotland.)

Mainly, though, an independent Scotland is impractical, and would be very expensive to run. This will not be another Switzerland. Furthermore, the vote may be close, which means that enthusiasm for independence does not run very deep. Nor will the vote end the issue: there will be many Scots who will be unhappy with independence, and will try to have it reversed, or will simply be uncooperative citizens. How will they be treated?

I think that separatism in Scotland is a nutty idea.

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

“Whatever military they do muster will, I guarantee you, be turned towards the English border. England will always be the Bogeyman that the SNP uses to keep the Scots in line. You’ll see posters, propoganda campaigns, etc, about how England is always about to invade. Mark it.”

I wouldn’t go that far. They’re actually going to be expecting the UK to do most of the heavy lifting when it comes to the defence of an ‘independent’ Scotland. The SNP has always come out in force to whine and protest when an Army or RAF base is earmarked for closure north of Hadrian’s wall, that coupled with the fact that they intend to keep the pound, suggests that independence, if was voted for, would be a sham, and Scotland will still be very much dependent on the rest of the UK, except they will have forfeited any right to have a vote or say in any of the policies that will affect them...

[crazycatlady]

You’re probably right. People, including people in America, tend to romanticize this stuff. I have both Scottish and Welsh ancestry. But today it’s probably more Trainspotting than Braveheart.

[gattaca]

...and they booted Winston Churchill after WWII in favor of socialism.

[gattaca]

Same here, mostly British Isles in some form or another.

[EQAndyBuzz]

Claim independence then disappear every socialist MP. Oops, they left Scotland for greener pastures. At the bottom of the North Sea.

Then turn towards Israel and India as allies.

[Moltke]

Prototype of Scotland's new short range missile.

[GeronL]

and who do they expect to pay for their army?

[ameribbean expat]

Not to my knowledge, but admittedly I do not follow it closely. I will say they are proud of their language, but I do not believe there is anything remotely resembling the level of enthusiasm for secession that exists in Scotland.

[mrsmel]

Aren’t many Scots also heavily dependent upon mostly English-subsidised welfare?

[gr8eman]

All they would have to do is lower all of the taxes and make it a cheap vacation spot. Imagine if petrol cost 1.50 Scottish pounds a gallon! Then imagine opening lots of shopping malls, gas stations, restaurants, etc. on the English border. Capitalism works everytime its tried.