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Questions Remain in Shooting of Miriam Carey (Should Carey Have Been Shot?)
New York Magazine ^ | 10/5

Posted on 10/06/2013 11:46:55 AM PDT by nickcarraway

It's been two days since 34-year-old dental hygienist Miriam Carey was killed after she rammed her car into a barricade in front of the White House and led security forces on a chase toward the U.S. Capitol, and some are asking whether the use of deadly force against her was truly necessary. While the first accounts of Carey's death said she exited her black Infiniti before she was shot, investigators now say she was still in the vehicle when officers fired the fatal bullets. Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Terrance W. Gainer told reporters that Carey "was trying to make a U-turn [toward the officers] between a United States Capitol Police security booth and some planters in the middle of the street on Constitution Avenue. Capitol Police officers and uniformed Secret Service officers shot at the car with semiautomatic pistols." D.C. Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier indicated that the car was not moving at that time and confirmed that officers shot at Carey beforehand, near Garfield Circle, when the car was still moving.

As has been noted, D.C. police have a policy against shooting at moving vehicles "unless deadly force is being used against the officer or another person...For purposes of this order, a moving vehicle is not considered deadly force." But when speaking to the Washington Post, Gainer acknowledged that the location of the incident complicated the situation: "The thing that’s distinctive about this is it was not your typical traffic violation...We operate in an environment under the constant threat of attack from suicide bombers and improvised explosive devices." He added, "Whenever there are bullets flying, there are risks. I think these officers minimized the risks to others." (Carey was unarmed, so — appropriately discharged or not — the only bullets flying were those of the security officers.) The New York Times points out that it is "not clear" whether the Secret Service or the Capitol Police share the D.C. Police Department's policy against shooting at moving cars. Spokespeople for both the Secret Service and Capitol Police declined to provide the Post with more information regarding their organizations' protocols.

Scores of experts have weighed in on the matter, though they mostly (and understandably, given that many details are still unavailable) seem unable to say whether it was handled correctly. Geoffrey Alpert, a criminologist at the University of South Carolina who spoke to the Times, said, "[Carey] had to be stopped. The question is, were there better ways to stop her? I don’t know what the answers are." William J. Bratton, who has led the Boston, L.A., and New York City police departments, also pointed out that D.C. offers "a different set of challenges than most police agencies. It’s truly an exceptional city with exceptional security circumstances." (He also said it was hard to judge the situation because we don't know if Carey "disobeyed commands" form officers.) Chuck Wexler of the Police Executive Research Forum told the Post this was "clearly an out-of-control situation" and said that "it's very important to think, what did the officers know at that point in time versus what we know today," which he said was a reference Carey's widely reported history of postpartum depression and possible psychosis and the fact that her 1-year-old daughter was also in the car.

In an interview with ABC News, Carey's sisters said she was not violent and attributed her struggle with mental illness. They also said the police should have acted differently. Valarie Carey, a retired NYPD sergeant, said, "Officers had enough time to assess the occupants of the vehicle. They actually not only put someone at harm's way, but they took someone's life." "She had no political agenda. She didn't hate her country. She wasn't a terrorist. She was on medication," said another sister, Amy Carey Jones, a registered nurse. "Mental illness really should have more attention."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: copbashingonfr; districtofcolumbia; goodriddance; miriamcarey; randsconcerntrolls
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1 posted on 10/06/2013 11:46:55 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

It was disgusting to see congress applauding the police, before they
knew an unarmed woman with a baby was murdered.


2 posted on 10/06/2013 11:50:17 AM PDT by tennmountainman (Just Say No To Obamacare)
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To: nickcarraway

Oh for the Lord’s sake.....the police obviously held their fire any number of times as the perp kept up the threat....how were they to know who was driving that car or whether or not it had explosives on board? Of course they had to right to stop the driver....even if it meant life or death.


3 posted on 10/06/2013 11:54:10 AM PDT by yoe ( Defund Obamacare now — or risk voter backlash in 2014)
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To: tennmountainman

I find the whole situation disturbing even nauseating. This woman was unarmed and there was a baby in the car!

I guess it’s now ok to murder the mentally ill in this country.


4 posted on 10/06/2013 11:54:38 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes mandatory ... Thomas Jefferson)
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To: nickcarraway

Capitol police and SS have different rules of engagement. They protect the Power Elite, not mere peasants.


5 posted on 10/06/2013 11:55:41 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (this space for rent)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

Where is the outrage from Scummy Sharpton and Jerkson????


6 posted on 10/06/2013 11:56:18 AM PDT by 1217Chic
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To: nickcarraway

Its sad to see this deranged woman, with her child in the car, get shot b the police. I wonder what the noise level would have been had W still been president.


7 posted on 10/06/2013 11:57:15 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: nickcarraway

why didn’t those highly trained cops just slide another cop car to the left of her car and thus prevent her from backing up, nearly killing several officers who had to scramble to not get hit, and then with the car blocked in on all sides, shoot out the tires???


8 posted on 10/06/2013 12:00:57 PM PDT by kushnejz
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To: nickcarraway

So far the surveillance camera videos of the killing is yet to be mentioned much less released. If you don’t believe there is some then I’ve got a bridge I’d like you to buy too. Guess we’ll have to wait for someone like Wiki-leaks to release them.


9 posted on 10/06/2013 12:02:54 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again,")
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To: SauronOfMordor

Capitol police and SS have different rules of engagement. They protect the Power Elite, not mere peasants.

NAILED IT!


10 posted on 10/06/2013 12:03:14 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: nickcarraway

she was a threat.....period....take her out.


11 posted on 10/06/2013 12:04:05 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

An automobile, driven as it was by this perp, WAS the weapon. Too bad for the kid, but then, the biggest danger to the kid was the cops. You see how many rounds were fired? Dozens. Lousy marksmanship by to doughnut eaters. No thought to the danger to citizens nearby either. We were very lucky no one else was killed by the police.


12 posted on 10/06/2013 12:07:23 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: Sacajaweau; nickcarraway

Where is the threat when the car came to a dead stop/still, they were able to grab the child, which most likely was strapped in a child seat, but had to shot the unarmed mother, hello!!!


13 posted on 10/06/2013 12:16:50 PM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: nickcarraway

There was a post earlier with a CNN video link to a witness that claims she saw the child pulled from the car before the mother was killed.


14 posted on 10/06/2013 12:16:55 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again,")
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To: fella

Family not allowed to see the body. Family also says she was not nuts. Curiouser and curiouser. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTqFfqH8zGg


15 posted on 10/06/2013 12:22:34 PM PDT by thoughtomator 2.0
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To: Sacajaweau

A threat to what? She was only armed with a 1 year old baby and a delusional mind.


16 posted on 10/06/2013 12:23:34 PM PDT by tennmountainman (Just Say No To Obamacare)
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To: Sacajaweau

To whom?


17 posted on 10/06/2013 12:29:57 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: SauronOfMordor

one only has to stop and consider what this story would be if it happened in any other city in America.

White cops, unarmed black woman.

Ramming barricades, running from LEO.....facts of the matter be damned...they would be found guilty by the racists before nightfall


18 posted on 10/06/2013 12:30:08 PM PDT by digger48
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To: tennmountainman

It’s the O-bomb-a-care ‘s approved treatment for mental illness -— a leathal dose of lead !


19 posted on 10/06/2013 12:32:03 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Obama: "Born in Kenya" Lying now or then)
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To: Sacajaweau

We are in the minority...but it is what it is..as tragic as it is.

I agree with you.


20 posted on 10/06/2013 12:32:21 PM PDT by berdie
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To: nickcarraway

It comes down to this. The car stopped. They ordered her to surrender. She didn’t. As a consequence, they shot her to death.

No doubt at all that this was unjustified.

The capital was on edge. They really thought the folks were going to start a violent uprising over 0bamacare and/or the ‘shutdown.’ They expected trouble. They killed a mentally disturbed woman. Her daughter is now without a mother.

If this had happened in a lily White suburb you can be sure the usual false reverends would be there now picketing and shouting. But DC is half minority, and they were acting under orders handed down from the administration.

The woman needed help, not bullets.

XXX Damn it! didn’t anybody see the video? The car is stopped, window partially open, cop aims and fires. She wasn’t firing at them. She had no gun. Damn it! there are no racial points to be made on this - is that why 0bama didn’t say “If I had another daughter, she’d look like Miriam”?


21 posted on 10/06/2013 12:33:00 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

One dog barks (BANG!) The rest of the pack starts barking (BANG! BANG! BANT!)


22 posted on 10/06/2013 12:34:13 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

What “fact” in your post was known to the police at the time of the shooting? All they knew was the driver repeatedly behaved with what could be reasonably construed as lethal intent. What you cite was only learned after the fact.


23 posted on 10/06/2013 12:34:37 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: berdie

The real tragedy is that there were so many people that knew she had a problem...but everyone is helpless BEFORE an event.


24 posted on 10/06/2013 12:35:15 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: danamco

Compare the result of this unarmed woman to what happened to the people who took aim a previous presidents: Reagan, even Kennedy?

The difference is?


25 posted on 10/06/2013 12:36:58 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Obama: "Born in Kenya" Lying now or then)
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To: thoughtomator 2.0

Not nuts means....We’re gonna sue!!


26 posted on 10/06/2013 12:37:28 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: yoe

I’ll only say this. If you really believe a car could be filled with explosives, shooting at it at close range doesn’t seem like the best plan.


27 posted on 10/06/2013 12:38:52 PM PDT by DB
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To: tennmountainman
An eyewitness says the baby was removed from the car before the woman was shot dead.
28 posted on 10/06/2013 12:42:06 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

It is if they’re attempting to hit you with a car.


29 posted on 10/06/2013 12:43:03 PM PDT by GunsareOK
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To: nickcarraway

No problem. Constitution is a living breathing document. We can change it any time we want. Not an issue. She caused us anxiety so we ended her. She forfeited her rights when she made us chase her......

etc etc etc.

Certainly the WP wouldn’t be asking any questions if it was a white male conservative.

What’s the big deal?


30 posted on 10/06/2013 12:43:49 PM PDT by Check6 (United States of Moronia: A nation of morons ruled by a gang of communist thugs.)
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To: muir_redwoods
Its sad to see this deranged woman, with her child in the car, get shot b the police. I wonder what the noise level would have been had W still been president.

Guarantee it would have been 24/7 on the Cable News networks.

31 posted on 10/06/2013 12:44:48 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: DB

None of this seems to have been well thought out by the various police agencies. I’m surprised they haven’t drilled on something just like this. She wasn’t a golden retriever or a 107 year old bed ridden gunman. Behold affirmative action in action (!) from the usurper in chief to the underlings who staff the capital city.

She was murdered in cold blood. Everyone involved is busy obfuscating until they can get all their stories straight and have (doctored) video to back them up.

We don’t live in the country we were born in anymore.


32 posted on 10/06/2013 12:48:26 PM PDT by pokerone (Live Free or Die is more than a catchy slogan.)
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To: nickcarraway

Her car was”Stuck”and she was unarmed with a baby on board!Why did they EXECUTE HER??????????????????


33 posted on 10/06/2013 12:49:37 PM PDT by bandleader
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To: nickcarraway

I my humble opinion, I believe that Ms. Carey was in a state of panic. New barriers had been recently installed as part of a DOD training exercise just a couple of days before hand.

It is possible that Ms. Carey, realizing that she entered an area she didn’t want to be in, confused with the multiple barriers, tried to extricate herself. In a panic, and confused, she fled. For this—she was murdered by the State apparatus. TO be applauded as Heros for saving the whole of Washington from a confused and panicked mother was kinda sick. Police State here we are.

yeah, bravo to our heros that fired round after round, clip after clip into an unarmed mother with her child looking on in horror. A cookie for all of them.


34 posted on 10/06/2013 12:49:55 PM PDT by abigkahuna (I have achieved the goal of semi-literacy through public schooling.)
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To: nickcarraway

The family could care less about her. They are only after the money from a settlement. They already had lawyered up and are positioning themselves for a financial settlement — how pathetic.


35 posted on 10/06/2013 12:54:22 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: tennmountainman
A threat to what? She was only armed with a 1 year old baby and a delusional mind.

Not picking a fight, here, but you don't think a "delusional mind" is a threat?

36 posted on 10/06/2013 12:55:18 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: GunsareOK

...but not after the car is stopped.


37 posted on 10/06/2013 12:56:07 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: yoe

My understanding is they shot her after she got out of the car.


38 posted on 10/06/2013 1:01:00 PM PDT by Frapster (frak)
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To: Frapster

Weird press conference too:

“We can’t say notin’”


39 posted on 10/06/2013 1:07:03 PM PDT by Leo Carpathian (FReeeeepeesssssed)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

>>This woman was unarmed and there was a baby in the car!<<

Sorry but that isn’t a qualifier these days when women abort babies as easily as they decide to change hairstylists. I observe women every day treating their child (presumably) as if the kid was a constant annoyance.

As for “ a moving vehicle is not considered deadly force.” Ask a victim of a hit and run if the vehicle is a weapon or not.


40 posted on 10/06/2013 1:11:59 PM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- <<http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: tennmountainman

Congress applauded Bush’ absurd pronouncement that Islam is a ROP, right after the events of 9/11/2001.

And, after all that has happened, if some fool would again say the same today there would still be a large number of critters getting up on their feet and joyously approve of that idiotic declaration.


41 posted on 10/06/2013 1:12:21 PM PDT by 353FMG ( I don't say whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: nickcarraway
There are two kinds of black shooting victims ; there are bad shooting victims shot by Washington police while driving a vehicle recklessly in D.C.: then there are good black shooting victims who are shot for merely pounding on a WHITE Latino not knowing said WHITE Latino is packing heat while said good black shooting victim is ....well casing the joint. Have I made this distinction perfectly clear?
42 posted on 10/06/2013 1:20:26 PM PDT by ontap (***)
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To: B4Ranch

They could have disabled that vehicle without murdering a mentally ill person.


43 posted on 10/06/2013 1:21:16 PM PDT by tennmountainman (Just Say No To Obamacare)
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To: abigkahuna
yeah, bravo to our heros that fired round after round, clip after clip into an unarmed mother with her child looking on in horror. A cookie for all of them.

They obliterated a black woman with a toddler in the car. They've just told me what chance they'll give me if I make a wrong turn in the Imperial capital. I thank them for that.

44 posted on 10/06/2013 1:24:42 PM PDT by Stentor ("Liberalism seeks out the eccentric to justify control over the normal." nathanbedford)
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To: abigkahuna

Nobody came out of this picture looking particularly beautiful for what they did. SWAT teams more and more assume the worst today. Now put that together with a potential threat to the Capitol and it’s easy to understand, if not necessarily excusable.


45 posted on 10/06/2013 1:26:45 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: rabidralph

So they get the car to stop and then reach in and take the kid out and then shoot her to death.

Now that’s bothersome —


46 posted on 10/06/2013 1:26:52 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Sacajaweau

Very true. I think anyone with a relative with mental illness knows the sense of helplessness.


47 posted on 10/06/2013 1:27:38 PM PDT by berdie
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To: nickcarraway
The colonists who stood on Lexington Green were threats to the redcoats. The government took them out. And we all cheer for the redcoats, don't we? [/s]

Was she crazy? I'm not sure. Did she use her car as a weapon? I'm not sure.
She might not be a very good example of a citizen standing up to government tyranny -- but the day comes when good citizens WILL stand up to government tyranny. And the government WILL carry out executions with extreme prejudice.

So I think people might want to be a little slow in cheering for the government guys who are killing citizens. Unless, of course, you like that sort of thing.

48 posted on 10/06/2013 1:29:21 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (21st century. I'm not a fan.)
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To: Sacajaweau
she was a threat.....period....take her out

I guess if the L.A. cops had shot Rodney King as soon as he stopped instead of beating his a$$ they would have received standing ovations and medals of valor: instead of going to jail!!

49 posted on 10/06/2013 1:33:59 PM PDT by ontap (***)
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To: kushnejz

“...with the car blocked in on all sides, shoot out the tires???”

Maybe they WERE shooting at the tires.


50 posted on 10/06/2013 1:35:31 PM PDT by moovova
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