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Is the Italian family about to be replaced by The Messianic State?
LifeSiteNews ^ | 7-19-13 | Hilary White

Posted on 07/20/2013 1:13:17 PM PDT by ReformationFan

Can the family die, as a legal and social institution in Italy? Such a question could not even have been asked 40 years ago in this country, but in that time, the social and demographic landscape has changed dramatically, and the unthinkable is going on around us.

For some time I’ve been thinking about and reading various opinions on how the destruction of marriage as a legal and social institution in the formerly Christian West, has forwarded the aims of that nebulously defined, but apparently all-powerful, class of people I’ve come to call, simply, “the Statists” or “the Secularists.”

It’s not that I have had any doubts that the deadly combination of loosened divorce laws, new sexual mores, contraception and legalized abortion – and now “gay marriage” – has been deliberately concocted by these people or for what end. It is perfectly clear that the entire grand project of social reordering has been calculated and deliberate. What I’ve wanted to know is exactly how, by what mechanisms, the abolition of marriage has transferred real power – the ability to make efficacious decisions – from the lowest, smallest and most personal levels of society to the highest, remotest, and most impersonal.

Of course, the way to figure that out is to look at how the family itself has tended to diffuse power through a given society’s institutions, and consequently, away from a centralized state.

Of all the world’s cultures, Italy is possibly the best example of how the family creates a bulwark against the overweening power of the state.

Until very recently, the Italian social order, perhaps more than any other nation on earth, was almost totally oriented towards the family, and as a consequence it barely functioned as a centrally governed nation state.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: europe; family; italy; secularism; socialism; statism
“Scholars have always recognized the Italian family as the only fundamental institution in the country...In fact, the law, the State and society function only if they do not directly interfere with the family’s supreme interests.”

Good quote.

1 posted on 07/20/2013 1:13:17 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Family is still very, very, very much alive in Italy.


2 posted on 07/20/2013 1:17:59 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: ReformationFan
... there have been times in Italian history when, while the State was weak, daily life continued much the same as it always had, because families continued to do so.....

It was Italy's equivalent of the Second Amendment.

3 posted on 07/20/2013 1:29:34 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
Family is still very, very, very much alive in Italy.

On what do you base your assertion, since the article and many others like it point out that the birth rate has fallen below the replacement level. Italy has been beset by the same Marxist b.s. we have to put up with here, from feminists and environmentalists to homosexualists, securlarists and islamists, constantly suing the government on behalf of their obsessions. Stick a fork in Italy.

4 posted on 07/20/2013 1:34:04 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: ReformationFan

Balderdash.. These perverts cannot, and will not penetrate my family, or any other Italian family that I know.. The family, any family including an Italian one, that is already fractured can be compromised..

Even in divorce, my exwife and I have kept our family close.. How and why, because it’s THE FAMILY.. That’s how... :)


5 posted on 07/20/2013 1:34:16 PM PDT by carlo3b (Speechless in Sugar Land)
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To: Albion Wilde
I'm basing my comments on the fact that I have family that live there and with whom I've spent a fair amount of time. It depends where in Italy that you're talking about, and I agree that the birth rate issue is a very crucial one, but that is in part an issue of economics. Italy has big economic issues and many young Italians don't feel that they can afford a family. There are plenty of young Italians are moving back home to save money.

The economic issues are not easy to fix, and mirror much of what we're dealing with here. Socialism, exporting manufacturing abroad, and nonsensical immigration are issues.

6 posted on 07/20/2013 1:40:36 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: ReformationFan
The majority of Christians are statists. Take care of your fellow man through big government. Nothing more Christian than that, right?

For Hilary to equate 'statists' as 'secularists,' is preposterous.

7 posted on 07/20/2013 1:41:28 PM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

There’s another theory about family in Italy. It’s said that Italian gregariousness was due to their large families. In other words, an Italian is not used to being alone and does not like to be alone.

Mussolini cleverly exploited this personal quality with his mass rallies and choreographed cheering (”Duce! Duce!”) long before Hitler copied the same technique. People were made to feel part of something huge and experienced a certain `togetherness’ at the same time.

Fractiousness in Italian politics is more based on regional and economic rivalries, in my estimation. What is definitely changing is the Italian family. Their birth rate is declining like the rest of western Europe, among a people who were said to cherish their children like no other.


8 posted on 07/20/2013 1:43:36 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
My daughter, her husband and three children, lived outside Milan, in a smallish town. Other than Muslims from North Africa, they were the only family with more than one child, most couples had none.

My daughter and her family were treated as very unusual, with "all those children!

Another thing I noticed was that most "couples" weren't even married but just living together (like so many young couples in the U. S.), those Italians living together as married were from all age categories.

I asked one Italian lady if the couples waited until becoming pregnant before marrying but was told, "No, they aren't going to have children, so no need to get married."

There is not much religion or faith noticable in many parts of Italy that I noticed either, only a few old ladies dressed in long black dresses entering the mostly vacant churches.

It was weird at Christmas and Easter, no observable religious celebrations at all. Only observable "celebrations" were banners here and there to celebrate this or that Saint with, nothing else.

If this is the "hope" for Western Civilization, according to the writer, I'm afraid it's doomed.

9 posted on 07/20/2013 2:07:48 PM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: deadrock

“The majority of Christians are statists. Take care of your fellow man through big government. Nothing more Christian than that, right?”

Taking care of one’s fellow man is certainly a Christian ideal but where in the Bible does it say do so through a big government?


10 posted on 07/20/2013 2:30:06 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: zerosix

Very different in parts of southern Italy, and definitely not overly secular (definitely less secular than the US). Milan is a bit like New York, from an Italian perspective, and I would not be surprised if the surrounding towns were not similar. Go to Salerno or Naples during Christmas.


11 posted on 07/20/2013 2:37:28 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

Many parts of Northern Italy are more Germanic, than Italian.


12 posted on 07/20/2013 2:39:39 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ReformationFan

That is exactly what you should be asking the millions, upon millions of leftist Christians who eternize big government, not me.


13 posted on 07/20/2013 2:45:12 PM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: dfwgator

When you drive north to where the town & city names are in both Italian and German (Bolzano/Bozen), you’re in the land of Lega Nord. They’ve wanted a separate Northern Italy for quite some time.

I found the people there seemed to combine German efficiency with Italian simpatico, a pleasant mix. But then, I liked the Napolitani too.


14 posted on 07/20/2013 3:12:52 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: deadrock
The majority of Christians are statists. Take care of your fellow man through big government. Nothing more Christian than that, right?

Say what?

15 posted on 07/20/2013 4:11:53 PM PDT by farsny
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To: farsny

That. Indubitable.


16 posted on 07/20/2013 4:31:10 PM PDT by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: deadrock
Indubitable.

Hardly.

17 posted on 07/20/2013 6:37:13 PM PDT by farsny
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
Maybe southern but not in areas around Rome, Tuscany area, Venice nor other costal metro areas.

Where my daughter lived was not in Milan, but was actually in a suburb or another very small town, very quaint, not at all urban but still quite Euro secular.

Folks around the area were very, very nice, just not at all religious and certainly not believers.

18 posted on 07/20/2013 6:51:03 PM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: zerosix
Remember that Italy used to have (and may still have) the largest Communist Party outside of the old USSR and China. Those members would hardly be religious.
19 posted on 07/21/2013 1:20:21 AM PDT by Ciampino
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

Considering that Italy has a birth ratevbelow replacement level, the only “family values” I still see there are middle aged men mooching off their parents for housing and food.


20 posted on 07/21/2013 5:53:10 AM PDT by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: Ciampino
They also have scores of political parties.

I met a guy whose family were very connected to Napoleon, many years ago. It was during the 1992 election and this fellow said he couldn't believe that Clinton would go anywhere, "because George (H. W.) Bush, had excellent diplomatic and background plus wonderful experience."

This guy said it was almost impossible to elect a quality candidate in Italy because of having so many political parties, that we, in the U.S., have only two major parties, whereas in Italy, anyone can decide they want to run for office.

They get government money to do just that, so there is nothing to keep anyone from getting a bundle of money, just to run for office for any reason whatsoever, and they do so, taking votes away from viable candidates.

21 posted on 07/21/2013 10:32:08 AM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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