Skip to comments.George Will: Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants Necessary to 'Sustain the Welfare State'
Posted on 04/15/2013 1:46:13 AM PDT by Bratch
On ABC's This Week Sunday, George Will made a comment about the need for a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants that is likely to raise eyebrows on both sides of the aisle.
"As the baby boomers retire, and as the birthrate declines, we need something to replenish the workforce to sustain the welfare state" (video follows with transcript and commentary):
*NOTE: Video at link*
JONATHAN KARL, SUBSTITUTE HOST: George, right to you. You heard a debate among Republicans on immigration. Which side should the Republican Party come down on?
GEORGE WILL: Every conservative sympathizes with what Jeff Sessions was saying about not rewarding law breaking. However, conservatism begins with facing facts. The facts are that of the 11 million people who are here illegally, two-thirds have been here a decade or more, 30 percent, 15 years or more. They're woven into our society. They're not leaving. And the American people would not tolerate the police measures necessary to extract them from our community. Therefore, the great consensus has to be on the details of a path to citizenship.
The most important thing Rubio said in your interview was, even if the system weren't broken, if you had no illegal immigrants, we'd still need to do something about this because we need the workers. As the baby boomers retire, and as the birthrate declines, we need something to replenish the workforce to sustain the welfare state.
KARL: The framing from Rubio was interesting, saying we really already have amnesty. Nobody's prosecuting the undocumented immigrants here now.
RUTH MARCUS, WASHINGTON POST: Absolutely, I want to say I'm going to really enjoy saying this next sentence. I completely agree with every syllable that George Will just said. And I think that the stars are in alignment for many of the reasons that he said.
"As the baby boomers retire, and as the birthrate declines, we need something to replenish the workforce to sustain the welfare state."
Is this an inconvenient truth or a stretch?
We know that this is a problem that countries such as Japan are already facing. Most of Europe is projected to see a peak in population in the next few decades. When this happens, entitlement programs become impossible to fund if they aren't already.
The velocity of our population growth has been slowing for decades.
As such, does Will have a point or should our future budget woes be irrelevant to this debate?
TPTB don't want secure borders because they want to continue to attract illegal aliens to shore up the population.
They're desperate for new sources of revenue.
No one really wants the secured borders.
That minor roof work that your neighbor wanted done...will be eventually done by Juan, who walked over the border last year, and is doing first-rate work for thirty-percent less than the professional roofer quoted.
The under-the-table deal that your local butcher arranged with a major grocery in Ohio....only accomplished because of the ten illegal butchers from Honduras that he recruited and brought in...working cash only...for thirty percent less than any of the regular employees would have accepted.
The $6k landscaping job that you finally got done this year....done by Juan the illegal....and you saved $500 over what the real landscaping service would have charged.
We all want the illegals to stay...mostly as the situation lays right now. No changes.
The “we need more workers” is just another liberal canard
Workers do not pay Social Security or government revenue....it is the businesses that hire them that pay it. Whether you have 1 million or 1 billion working.....if businesses put so much money in an economy...that is all the potential revenue there is
Liberal GOP are as bad on economics as the DNC is
Dog gotta be big enough to feed the tick or the inevitable starvation sets in.
More immigints = bigger dog.
The current insustainability of the welfare state is at least partly due to the fact that these illegal immigrants long-term cost the system far more than they contribute. Nevertheless, we should welcome them because they provide a short-term solution even though they aggravate the long-term problem.
No better illustration is needed of Nathan Bedford's third Maxim of politics: failed socialism begets more socialism.
With the majority of illegals and their offspring ill-educated and on some sort of welfare during their working years they are not the solution. Increased immigration for skilled immigrants ould help, but that’s not the vast majority of whom we’re looking to legalize.
Opening the gates to hordes of illegal aliens will GROW the welfare state and the COST of it, not “sustain” it.
The stupidity of George Will and his ilk is mind boggling.
No better illustration is needed of Nathan Bedford's third Maxim of politics: failed socialism begets more socialism.Yep.
We're about to see another example of it as the Establishment gears up to inflict Obamacare 2 on the country, to "fix" the problems in Obamacare 1.
There is a problem with sustainment of the OASDI provisions of the FICA, Social Security. There simply aren't enough workers entering the ranks of the employed here to sustain it. It is because there are millions upon millions who are on one of 83 programs of government welfare not connected with Social Security. That, coupled with the ever increasing deluge of new SSDI applications (and approvals) has completed the gravestone - only the date of death is to be filled in.
While SS (the old age part) is something that is not likely to go away, the disability part of that can certainly be reduced - there are far to many specious claims and outright fraud; both SSDI and SSI comprise nearly 25% of the outlays.
However, the politicians will not touch either and have landed on another solution. Take 11 million (so they say) illegals and make them legal - take their $8/hour wages, take 6.2% of that over 2000 hours per year and add that to the "fund" lockbox or whatever you want to call it. $992 per year is what it works out to for each illegal. They contribute $82/month and they get $625/month when they claim retirement (and for their spouses)....smart business move.
The other benefit is Democrat votes. They will NEVER vote for a Republican because a Democrat will always promise more. The boon they offer to illegals, citizenship, opens them up for literally ALL of the 83 welfare programs mentioned above.
Notwithstanding the 'benefits' of illegals (name some), the disadvantages, the intangible costs of them are horrendous, and they are always glossed over or just plain overlooked when a liberal is talking about them. They just want more voters and to hell with the rest of us.
It is a no win situation both from an economic and ideology standpoint. Playing Whack-a-Mole at 10 times normal speed.
I wrote two checks yesterday, one for $9000+ and the other for $3000 + to pay for all this (in addition to what I had taken away from me before that). Next year, I won't be doing so; and they won't be able to take as much away either. I've checked out and given up. There is no point in working and amassing anything this government will eventually take away from you. Everything I have is paid for, and my monthly outlays are minimum. My income is managed now to just enough to get by and to minimize what they can take. Let the illegals pay for all this.
Outsourcing jobs, increased government regulation. and more single mothers is more than enough to keep the welfare state going.
Illegal immigration is just the icing on the cake!
George Will is correct...the answer, however, must be twofold. Create a way to make these people contributors to the system while SIMULTANEOUSLY shrinking the system.
Without the second part, the entire exercise is pointless.
Will’s hypothesis is a curious one. I’ve done the research, and even with Amnesty, it will only delay, not correct the problem.
The average age of immigrants to America is far older than it is for the families that are already here. Immigration makes sense in order to obtain skilled professionals willing to assimilate.
It makes zero sense on demographic grounds. It’s not going to stop the aging of America.
So if I understand this correctly, all current illegal immigrants/aliens will, at the stroke of a pen, become fully functional, working, tax paying Americans. What a relief.
That's mere supposition without a scintilla of fact to support it. Currently, the meter is swung the other way, with Big Sis releasing known "undocumented Democrats" (H/T Leno) and blaming the sequester for it. The law exists to make it happen without the need to extract anybody.
Will does make a valid observation about the reason for any political action: Follow the money.
The birthrate would change, possibly, if our leaders secured the borders and thereby helped citizen employment in the process.
Your comments illustrate the conundrum - young men who break the immigration laws to work in the US at menial, low paying, back-breaking work that unemployed and welfare-recipient citizens refuse to do.
If they were invading China or Cuba we would applaud their audacity and work ethic.
Rubio described an excellent, practical solution for a 10 year application/waiting period for legal green card status (not citizenship, welfare benefits or voting eligibility) Proof of self support and background check. More hurdles than high tech, European and Asian immigrants.
I thought conservatism began with defending the Constitution and the laws of the land, not just deciding what meets our current convenience. The reason we are in this mess is because no one is defending the laws of the land, but rather pretending they don't exist in many cases.
They don’t need citizenship (and the voting rights that go along with it.) All they need is permanent residency.
Edict of Caracalla. Check it out.
appr. 210 AD
nothing is new
In other words the lying,conniving,lowlife,traitor politicians have robbed the American taxpayers for decades,so now they have to cover their worthless asses by flooding the country with people who care nothing of this countries traditions or culture to keep the fraud going
Funny, I thought illegals were a net drain on the Treasury. At the end of the day, its about minting more Democrats, period. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or naive.
The illegals are just like parasites invading their host and the final result is death.
They have absolutely no intention in integrating into our society. In fact, they expect us to integrate into their society...a society that has failed miserably.
In time, the America we knew will soon disappear and the rotten carcass of our heritage will be laying on the side of the road while they walk past it.
Here in south Texas, you would not recognize the fact that it was once American for we now live in Texaco, not Texas. 80% of the language spoken here is Spanish and they make no effort to speak or write English. This, in turn, is passed on from generation to generation. The other “gift” handed down from generation to generation is their rights to welfare and the methods to fraud the system.
We have gone far beyond the Rubicon and there is no turning back. The disease of South Texas will soon kill the American society we once knew.
Good logic, but based on a false assumption.
They are NOT importing “Americans” that pay taxes-—instead, they are importing “foreigners” who not only do NOT pay them, but CONSUME taxes through our welfare system.
These ILLEGALS are net COSTS to the system rather than benefits.
The system is also WRONG, but who cares about that anymore?
A few years back, I had ceramic floor tile put in my kitchen, two hall ways and a bath room, expensive material and labor but I've gotten too old to do the "stoop labor" myself. I got a few estimates and picked the one I wanted, then told the contractor what I would pay him in cash and not even ask for a receipt. I saved about 25% and the contractor was happy too. Yes, it was illegal but he was an American and bypassing the government's take saved us both a lot of money.
Earth to mental midgets.
You have shipped our manufacturing base to China and Mexico.
Where exactly are these low skilled workers going to work to pay taxes?
Ding! Ding! They are not going to work, they are going to collect benefits.
This BS that Rubio is spewing about they can’t collect for 10 years will be shot down by some weeny liberal judge and we are duped again.
Wake the hell up America!
Isn’t the real conservative approach to eliminate the welfare state all together ?
"In short, the "house of world order" will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down. It will look like a great "booming, buzzing confusion," to use William James' famous description of reality, but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault. Of course, for political as well as administrative reasons, some of these specialized arrangements should be brought into an appropriate relationship with the central institutions of the U.N. system, but the main thing is that the essential functions be performed." Richard N. Gardner "The Hard Road to World Order" Foreign Affairs 1974
Since there's gloomy prospects of living wages for millions upon millions of alien families who will be undergoing the wait while living in a Ponzi economy near collapse......and since the members of said extended illegal families will be aged, be sick, be injured, become handicapped, be malnourished, be giving birth, etc. the Supreme Court will OVERTURN the "no health and welfare benefits" law in a heartbeat (especially since we probably will have an unstoppable Obama court majority in the very near future).
Let's be realistic. I think everyone knows that illegals will continue to receive the benefits during the waiting period just as if they were documented citizens. The Supremes will mandate it. Any politician, including Rubio, knows this, also....and they are lying through their teeth with their reassuring, slick words, promises and explanations to the contrary.
We are being led into a total socialist/welfare by our rulers in both parties....a state where everyone will be equally broke except the rulers.
The birthrate would change, possibly, if our leaders secured the borders and thereby helped citizen employment in the process.
Bingo. People aren’t rushing to have babies when they can’t get a full time job.
After all, it worked so well for the EU.
adding 40 million to the dole is going to sustain the welfare state?
I don’t think the Snobs have a clue about the wagon being too heavy for the horses to pull
But this has nothing to do with immigration. Immigration involves making oneself known to the destination country's government via an application, awaiting a decision and living with the result. In the event the application is approved, the process also involves gaining knowledge and appreciation of the new nation's laws and customs as well as swearing an oath of allegiance - however quaint that may seem.
If we're going to call illegally crossing the border, illegally staying in a foreign country and illegally gaining access to public funds 'immigration,' then we should start calling theft 'borrowing,' however permanent the borrowing may be.
Conservatism begins with facing facts
No, conservatism begins with the rule of constitutional law. Fiscal conservatism begins with living within our means. Indian and Pakistani engineers will contribute much more to our society financially, culturally and in terms of reduced criminality than Mexican leaf blowers.
The facts are that of the 11 million people who are here illegally, two-thirds have been here a decade or more, 30 percent, 15 years or more.
11 million is a laughably low estimate. And I'm not bothered how long they've been here. Perhaps by now they may have picked up a word or two of English and know full well they're breaking the law.
They're woven into our society.
Right. By speaking and writing only Spanish and refusing any and all attempts to learn English, as well as forcing schools and public institutions (who know that Jose Gonzales is illegally here but do nothing about it) to become bilingual. Many don't pay taxes, many send as much cash out of the country as often as possible (which is why Mexico does nothing), many facilitate additional lawbreaking by relatives and friends who enter illegally, and they contribute to and participate in political causes like La Raza who exploit and exacerbate the problem. They are not woven. They are a stain.
They're not leaving.
I'm not sure it's up them.
And the American people would not tolerate the police measures necessary to extract them from our community.
Just try us, George. I'll carry the baton and lead the marching band as the parade of buses drives south.
Meanwhile, police measures continue to constrict around the throat of proper Americans. East German style checkpoints, TSA/DHS nonsense, gun control, taxes, a million regulations and a million bureaucrats. The Mexicans in America ignore all of these by playing dumb, refusing any form of ID or registration (or forging it), and enjoying political favoritism.
Therefore, the great consensus has to be on the details of a path to citizenship.
Er, no it doesn't. Stop drinking the Potomac water directly from the tap, George. If they aren't leaving, then we must first keep those here to a finite number. Seal the border. The first and next Mexican who reaches America will be known, registered, tracked and removed if he overstays his visa. The 11 (or 20, or 30) million who are here are a special case and must NEVER become citizens, especially in the case of elections. Rewarding lawbreaking will only invite more of the same. That is more than a fair enough trade, no matter what desperate, grasping politicians want.
As for the welfare state, how will illegals who don't pay taxes contribute to supporting such a state? Moreover, how will illegals receiving a piece of pie they didn't help bake ensure the stability of the welfare state? It's like dousing a fire with gasoline.
Just up their EBT!
That would most certainly do it. (Hope they haven’t already got this in the works.)
It is the main reason and the reason why both parties are pushing for it.
Maybe it’s the welfare state the needs to change.
“Workers do not pay Social Security or government revenue.”
“documented status” is for collecting benefits. The taxpaying part will still remain “undocumented”.
If you’ve ever been to certain parts of Mexico or elsewhere in Latin America, you do not truly understand actual poverty.
This is the sort of poverty that we will be importing to America - there is no way the welfare state can keep up, it will break and then multi-tens of millions of illegals along with a much greater number of native born and otherwise legal citizens will be right back to the intense, grinding poverty that we used to only find next door.
Seeing an endless shanty-town is one of the most depressing things. We are importing that here.
It is exactly why the Euro-weenies let in millions of Turd Worlders. Their own people not reproducing and aging into retirement, someone, they argued, was needed to pay taxes to support them.
As it turns out The Turd Worlders cost more than they contribute, are violent, Muslim, fast breeders who utterly foul any nest with which they are provided. Meantime, Norwegian teenage girls cannot go on the streets of their own towns. Muslims go a-wilding in London. Somali boys abuse school teachers in Maine. The French police are shut out of whole towns, and people in djellabas crap into the gutters of Marseille.
and the PC beat goes on.
There are exactly 11 million illegal aliens. Of course, if one were to leave LA County, one might easily turn up 20 million or so more, but let's not go there, OK?
****said extended illegal families will be aged, be sick, be injured, become handicapped, be malnourished, be giving birth, etc. the Supreme Court will OVERTURN the “no health and welfare benefits” law in a heartbeat***
Very sobering comments - and sadly - very realistic.
I never liked him
In the early days of TV righties...I liked Kirkpatrick better...far better.....Will appeared like such a fop
uh oh here come the race bait finger pointers
(like I care)
So, the welfare state is unsustainable, George?
Ibid... secession or rev°lu+ion!
Oh, well, if that's the only reason, why not? Certainly makes sense to me, and assures me that I'll have my Social Security check every month after I retire, right? What could be wrong with that, eh?
As is Russia... could it be that socialism discourages populations into reproducing? Subconsciously, do people decide that it is not worth bringing children into this world? Does socialism destroy the family to the point of ultimate failure?
Socialism is provably a failure; yet we are being herded into that failure quickly and easily... Democrap traitors deny that they are socialists while hinting always that socialism is the answer to finding utopia. The American Communist Party now endorses the Democrap Party... does that tell folks something? |:-/
Then again all those 3rd world hellholes have small groups of elites - people who get the best. Maybe George Will thinks he'll be in that group. Best of luck George on that too - in 3rd world cultures the gentle aren't the elites... and YOU George Will won't be part of the ‘in’ group.
Do YOU George Will actually believe these people will act any different when they're in charge of the culture? - I doubt they'll be propping up white liberal elites much longer - sheer numbers guarantee that... so the dreams of cheap gardeners, cheap nursing home staff, cheap labor etc. is just NOT going to happen.