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Four Tiers of Failure: How the LGBT Lobby Dominates
http://www.americanthinker.com/ ^ | March 2013 | By Robert Oscar Lopez

Posted on 03/29/2013 3:35:29 PM PDT by Maelstorm

I never knew the extent of a lobby's power until fate called me to speak on behalf of children's rights. Now, six months after having come forward with a logical, secular argument against same-sex parenting based on experience, broad research, and international law, I have been met with vicious attacks and something far worse than viciousness: a massive nationwide cold shoulder. Both left and right are allied in a complete blackout of dissent from LGBT orthodoxy.

Doug Mainwaring is a gay father in Maryland; he and I jointly signed an amicus brief in support of Proposition 8. Over the last six weeks, fifteen news organizations have rejected our editorials and refused to interview us; many, like Salon and the New Republic, gave major coverage to the pro-gay marriage side at the same time that they rejected our correspondence. Some of these publications are conservative, though I will strive not to burn bridges by naming them here.

I am, moreover, the only person reared by a same-sex couple who signed an amicus brief in support of Proposition 8. Nonetheless, the Washington Post feels that it is newsworthy to report on two gay men holding a bake sale to raise money to pay a surrogate mother, while deeming the riposte from Mainwaring and me utterly insignificant.

Mainwaring and I support civil unions. We do not oppose homosexuality or object to gays living together. We support traditional marriage for the simple reason that a child's right to a father and mother is a fundamental consideration recognized by international law. Why has every paper from the New York Times to the Chicago Tribune pretended that our position simply doesn't exist?

There are four levels that have failed in the United States, and we must take these four tiers very seriously.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: gay; gaystapo; homosexualagenda; lavendermafia; marriage; orwelliannightmare; pinkjournalism; pravdamedia; samesexmarriage; scotus; sourcetitlenoturl; ssm
Robert really does an excellent job of breaking down exactly how the LGBT activists have stacked the deck and ways that the traditional marriage movement can improve its standing in the fight.
1 posted on 03/29/2013 3:35:29 PM PDT by Maelstorm
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To: Maelstorm

The gays have taken control of the media and entertainment, which frankly has a huge role in forming people’s opinions on the issues of the day.


2 posted on 03/29/2013 3:36:42 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Maelstorm; fellowpatriot; MarineMom613; Ron C.; wolfman23601; ColdOne; navymom1; Pat4ever; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

3 posted on 03/29/2013 3:38:32 PM PDT by narses
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To: dfwgator

I’m also thinking their actual numbers have tipped over 5% in the US. That’s not only the point at which most people know reasonably way someone who is now openly gay, but it is also the magic percentage at which Muslims in a population, for example, start to influence policy.

More, more open, and crossing a demographic tipping point, IMO.


4 posted on 03/29/2013 3:41:57 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker

I just think enough of them have weaseled into positions of power in the media, that they can paint a picture of the world for the masses, that is not based on reality.


5 posted on 03/29/2013 3:43:12 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

The gays have taken control of the media and entertainment, which frankly has a huge role in forming people’s opinions on the issues of the day.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And...**Education**! Both university levels and K-12.

Gays are also moving into K-12 schooling, and remember! Gays hire Gays!


6 posted on 03/29/2013 3:48:52 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: dfwgator

Exhibit A: Shepard Smith. Exhibit B: ABC News senior vice president Jeffrey Schneider. Exhibit C: Anderson Cooper. Exhibit D: Adam Nagourney.


7 posted on 03/29/2013 3:50:41 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: Maelstorm
I'm still not sure I'd even describe this as a "fight." In my conversations with principled conservatives on this subject, one of the most common attitudes I find is apathy or disinterest. I think there's a general recognition among a lot of these folks that the "fight" over marriage -- from a legal/political standpoint -- was lost decades ago. In fact, the general consensus among some of them is that they really don't care what anyone in a government office thinks about marriage at all.

It seems kind of silly, when you think about it: You've got homosexual activists clamoring for their "right" to be a part of an institution of marriage that has slowly lost favor among an increasing number of heterosexuals over the years.

8 posted on 03/29/2013 3:51:44 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: dfwgator

correct. hollywierd made a concerted effort a few years ago to integrate homosexual characters into their shows. For this reason alone, I would have stopped watching shows. We have the local media (dc area) jamming homo reporters and homo newsreaders on the screen so much so it’s becoming pathetic. No way there are that many homos skipping around.


9 posted on 03/29/2013 3:53:20 PM PDT by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: newnhdad
Your post reminds me of a memorable comment from an older acquaintance whose opinion I respect highly. He was thumbing through a magazine in a waiting room and came across a photo of Anderson Cooper. This was before Cooper "came out of the closet," mind you.

He turned to me, held up the photo, and said:

"Does this look like the cover of a homosexual coloring book, or what?"

I almost peed in my pants, I was laughing so hard at that one.

10 posted on 03/29/2013 3:58:10 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: wintertime

They’re doing very serious damage to society through the blacklisting of anyone who disagrees with them.

Art, literature, science, medicine you name it. If you disagree with the left on any subject they will give bad reviews or otherwise ostracize you regardless of the quality or validity of your work.

Ben Carson is one of the finest brain surgeons in the world and students at UofM are now calling for his speech there to be canceled because he doesn’t toe the hard left line.

These people are dragging us into the dark ages with their hate.


11 posted on 03/29/2013 3:59:30 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Alberta's Child
This isn't about marriage. It's about using marriage to bludgeon all businesses, churches, schools, and clubs with Civil Rights law suits.

Also....Once gay marriage is enacted then it will be thoroughly integrated into **every** aspect of K-12 schooling. Bet on it! Within days of Massachusetts approving gay marriage the “ready-to-go” gay curriculum was on board in the government schools. And...Parents have no right to be informed or to object since it is now official law.

12 posted on 03/29/2013 4:06:11 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: 9YearLurker

I don’t see it so much as a problem of saturation but one of acceptance.

Decades ago, homosexuals were shunned and ridiculed. They were castigated and forced into the dark corners of society. As the sexual revolution in the 60s progressed, homosexuals became emboldened.

Just like the Alinsky tactics dictate, they ridiculed their detractors. The detractors slinked away, because ridicule truly is a powerful weapon. Now they run the place and homophobia is bordering on a social death sentence.

We need to take the fight back to the gays, in my opinion. Ridicule them into the closet again. Their lifestyle is NOT acceptable nor is it promotional of anything other than Godless hedonism. Heterosexuality is about the propagation of the species. That’s why militant gays refer to us as “breeders” as if it were a pejorative.


13 posted on 03/29/2013 4:07:23 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Alberta's Child

The problem is that it doesn’t stop with marriage. You are correct the fight began to be lost with losses in other areas. Losses against pornography and having it defined as “freedom of speech” helped set the stage. The radical feminism and the free love movement of the 60s made the transformation we see possible where it would never have had a chance in hell before. While some of the influence has waned for “feminists” they essentially achieved their goals in that most families if they are working families have two parents working almost exclusively outside the home for proportionally the same income and lifestyle that one parent used to be able to achieve not only do both parents work outside the home but they also often pay for single mothers through taxes to stay at home while the govt pays for those mothers to send their children to free daycare. So homosexuality and ssm isn’t the beginning of the fall the fall started long ago as common ideas about the family structure and decency were eroded.

Those that are apathetic need to wake up and start making themselves heard because the next phase coming is going to be even worse and strangely it appears too many of our neighbors are just fine with enabling the thought police empowered through govt to root out “homophobic bigots”. I wish that I could just unplug and not care. I could probably live the rest of my life and avoid the worst of it for me and my family but that would be a surrender not fit for anyone calling themselves a patriot. These are “fights” and our opposition most certainly looks at them in that light and its about time apathetic conservatives do too.


14 posted on 03/29/2013 4:12:51 PM PDT by Maelstorm (This country wasn't founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a govt check!")
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To: wintertime
That's kind of my point. The problem isn't "gay marriage" per se, but the entire notion that a cultural revolution could be carried out through the public school system. I'd make the case that the basic idea of "public education" has no place in a free nation.

Most of the folks I mentioned in my previous post would blow their brains out before they ever send their kids to a public school.

The Catholic Church in the United States became one of the most dominant "counter-cultural" forces in the world when it rightly decided that it wanted no part of the dominant Protestant culture of this country at the time.

The controversy surrounding topics like "same-sex marriage" are really just symptoms of a much bigger problem.

15 posted on 03/29/2013 4:13:51 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: Maelstorm

I believe the best approach in times like this is to be principled in your thought and virtuous in your conduct. And to always do these things with an air of serenity and a smile on your face ... even if circumstances require you to deal with someone through the sights of a loaded firearm.


16 posted on 03/29/2013 4:17:34 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: wintertime
Gays hire Gays!

Coming soon to the military, especially the JAG offices.

17 posted on 03/29/2013 4:19:26 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: rarestia

Your analysis is correct. And they truly do fear anyone that dares point to the non-normalcy of the lifestyle. Its there for all to see. Go to a “pride” parade and you see obscene vulgar displays that would never be appropriate on a public street under other circumstances. Also there is a tactic acceptance of underage homosexual sexual encounters all throughout homosexual “literature” its not just a small part but a dominant thread. Used to the leaders of the militate gay movement didn’t even try to deny it they wrote about such stuff in their treatises on gay rights proudly. I read through tons of the crap for research purposes and its not the anti-gay books that alarmed me as much as what I read from the prominent gay activists. They have at their heart a sexual amorality that is exceedingly dangerous.


18 posted on 03/29/2013 4:19:33 PM PDT by Maelstorm (This country wasn't founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a govt check!")
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To: Maelstorm

Homosexuality is all about perversion. It speaks directly to the self-destructive nature of sin. When they give in to the temptation and continue to “explore” they get deeper into a culture and farther from an “easy way” out.

Most homosexuals I’ve known are self-hating and seldom truly happy, fulfilled people. They are drug addicts or alcoholics. They are addicted to pornography. Many of them claim they were “raised Catholic/Christian” and imply the “church” drove them to perversion. The church never gave up on them. They gave up on God.

Homosexuality is all about how two same-sex people copulate. This has nothing to do with love, happiness, equality, or rearing/raising of children. There’s no way to logically justify homosexuality.


19 posted on 03/29/2013 4:33:46 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Maelstorm
Some of these publications are conservative, though I will strive not to burn bridges by naming them here

Please do - these @$$holes need to be punished.

20 posted on 03/29/2013 5:03:58 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (Buck Off, Bronco Bama)
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To: Maelstorm

There once was a young man from Racine,
Who invented a love-making machine,
Concave or convex,
It would fit either sex,
With attachments for those inbetween.


21 posted on 03/29/2013 5:27:41 PM PDT by From The Deer Stand
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To: wintertime

The next thing after the gay marriage issue is won, will be the “normalization” of pedophilia, bet on it. The APA just deemed it a “disorientation”, the same as homosexuality and transgenderism..


22 posted on 03/29/2013 6:56:49 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Constitution? What Constitution?)
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To: Hardastarboard

I wish I knew. The left have one thing correct. Exposing their heretics. Some not so “conservative” like to be traitorously silent. Why else do you not see Phds that don’t agree with the gay lobby on sexual orientation on Fox News? Instead if they put anyone on they put on straw men interviewees whose primary specialty is religion and while that is important they know very well that there is a difference. They make a big deal of Carrie Prejean a beauty queen but barely a peep about a college student ejected from a psychology/sociology program for being “Christian on Campus” or a Black Deaf Professor who was suspended simply for being supportive of letting people vote on SSM. There is a conspiracy of silence and there are a lot enemies in the midst. You see how easy it was to change the playing field on global warming yet they won’t touch the gay pseudo science. I have been impressed with Sean Hannity of late. Oreilly has proven to be exactly what I thought he was and Glenn Beck though I appreciate his effort has largely been awol on the issue. He seems more interested in gun shaped pop tarts (they are outrageous) than people losing their jobs due to gay thought police.


23 posted on 03/29/2013 7:02:50 PM PDT by Maelstorm (This country wasn't founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a govt check!")
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To: cripplecreek
These people are dragging us into the dark ages with their hate.

This why I have taken to calling them Regressives.
24 posted on 03/29/2013 7:21:19 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Army Air Corps

I certainly wouldn’t want one of these future surgeons operating on me.

They find out that I’m a conservative and they might be a little more “careless” than usual.


25 posted on 03/29/2013 7:24:27 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: dfwgator

Coming soon to the military, especially the JAG offices.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good point! Sadly, you a likely correct.


26 posted on 03/29/2013 8:04:06 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: Army Air Corps

Welcome to the trailing edge of the Roman Empire.

All we need now is to elect Caligula to the White House.


27 posted on 03/30/2013 4:19:52 AM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: Maelstorm
I don't mean to hijack this thread but...

This whole subject matter seems superfluous when put in context of what really is ailing this country

A friend and I drove through Cities that were very GM-Chrysler centric yesterday. Stopped at one strip mall complex, it was 1/2 empty.

Drove by many a street that were all industrial parks, as my friend and I noted if we went down these streets our guess 1/2 the businesses were closed, we didn't have to drive down them, we have seen it in other business centric complexes.

Yet the Gun store was smoking busy no pun intended as people ethereally prepare for something their gut tells them is a potential reality....

This whole issue is a colossal waste of time and misplaced energies..

28 posted on 03/30/2013 4:46:42 AM PDT by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: Alberta's Child

In my opinion, it is not apathy but cowardice. Apathy just plays better. One gets spat upon less frequently on high ground.
And of course there’s a lot of ignorance out there that needs to be disguised, too.


29 posted on 03/30/2013 4:56:19 AM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: Maelstorm

Marriage is the fundamental societal order that provides the foundation for our economy, our nation, and our posterity. Homosexual behavior is completely disordered, and can only destroy that foundation and everything that is built upon it.


30 posted on 03/30/2013 5:05:28 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Legislate that down is up if you will, but take my advice, don't jump off cliffs anyway.)
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To: HomeAtLast
I would agree with you in other circumstances, but not this one. There's nothing to fight over in this case, because taking the "right" side in one particular battle puts someone squarely on the wrong side in another battle.

Case in point:

There are two reasons why this issue has ended up before the U.S. Supreme Court, and they relate to the two separate cases that have been appealed to this point: (1) the U.S. Internal Revenue Code includes distinctions for "married couples" among taxpayers, and (2) the Defense of Marriage Act of 1996 is a Federal statute with legal ramifications for "married couples."

I'll let the first point stand on its own. The Internal Revenue Code is a massive pile of nonsense that even the IRS's own employees can't decipher correctly. At its heart, the first case is basically a tax dispute, brought by a lesbian plaintiff who is questioning why she (or, more accurately, her lesbian partner) had to pay a $300,000+ estate tax bill when her "partner" died, while her neighbors who are recognized as "married" under the tax code would not have been required to pay this tax. Forget about married couples and lesbians in this case. The real argument here is why anyone should be compelled to pay a $300,000 tax bill to the Federal government after he or she has deceased. The "right" side of this political argument was lost the moment we accepted the fact that the Federal estate tax -- which happens to be one of the platforms of the Marxism -- is a legitimate form of taxation. Anyone who stands up before the U.S. Supreme Court and renders arguments based on the status quo under Federal tax law has already capitulated on this point.

The second point relates to the legitimate role of the Federal government in marriage. Many of us predicted that the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) of 1996 would be overturned the first time it came before the Supreme Court, since there is no basis under the U.S. Constitution for the Federal government to have any involvement in marital law. Anyone who argues the "traditional marriage" side of this issue on the basis of the DOMA is on the wrong side of Constitutional law.

The larger issue here is that a lot of principled people have no interest in this battle because it's completely alien to them. For a lot of these folks, a legal battle over the rights of people to engage in homosexual behavior and over the need for governments to provide legal recognition for these people may as well be an argument over the Constitutional rights of aliens from Mars, or of turds in the toilet. That's how bizarre -- even completed 'effed up -- homosexuals are to them. How much interest do you think you'd get from conservatives if the U.S. Supreme Court was considering a case involving a plaintiff who wanted Federal protection for his/her right to eat a railroad tie every weekend?

31 posted on 03/30/2013 6:48:39 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: Alberta's Child

You have entirely valid points there, but they’re far too recondite for the average American, who is simply afraid to be branded a homophobe or a bigot.

Cowardice and greed are the major problems, IMO. Moral courage has atrophied for lack of exercise. Unfortunately, it is easier to discern these shortcomings in politicians than in ourselves, who put these wretches in office and provide them with salaries, pensions, and opportunities for mischief.


32 posted on 03/30/2013 7:10:27 AM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: 9YearLurker
I’m also thinking their actual numbers have tipped over 5% in the US.

Close:

Queers: "We are the 3.4%."

This has been a long fight for the faggots. This is from 1987. Check it out. You'll see how far they have really come. Insidious.

33 posted on 03/30/2013 7:19:38 AM PDT by upchuck (Free Republic: faster than a speeding bullet!)
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To: HomeAtLast
The guy who comes out of this looking great is Ted Olson, the former U.S. Solicitor General under George W. Bush who is arguing the case in favor of "same-sex marriage" for one of the plaintiffs. Ted has been married four times. Barbara Olson, who was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 77 and lost her life on 9/11, was his third wife.

If nothing else, at least the guy is consistent. The institution of marriage should mean no more to the IRS or to the Federal government than it does to him.

On the other hand, you can also add one more name to that long list of @ssholes in the "compassionate conservative" administration of George W. Bush.

34 posted on 03/30/2013 7:32:16 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: upchuck

I don’t believe all gays admit to such in surveys and I believe the numbers have been growing. In large cities the percentage tends to be higher; in flyover country, lower.


35 posted on 03/30/2013 7:40:57 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Maelstorm
I never knew the extent of a lobby's power

Uhh Gee Opie, Bob -- you should've been looking closer :
 
"Ohhhhho say can you seee...."
 
Eyes Wide Shut

"8-1984 - Lawrence King [Homosexual and alleged Pedophile] throws a lavish party in Dallas, Texas, after singing the National Anthem at the Republican National GOP Convention."

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=Lawrence+king+singing+pedophile+franklin&oq=Lawrence+king+singing+pedophile+franklin

 

http://www.franklincase.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=9


36 posted on 03/30/2013 9:16:16 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: dfwgator
The gays have taken control of the media and entertainment, which frankly has a huge role in forming people’s opinions on the issues of the day.

 

"According to my opinion, and the opinions of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money, and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion, active measures, or psychological warfare. What it basically means is: to change the perception of reality of every American that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.
 
It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages.
 
The first stage being "demoralization".
 
It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of [their] enemy. In other words, Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generation of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; American patriotism.
 
Most of the activity of the department [KGB] was to compile huge amount / volume of information, on individuals who were instrumental in creating public opinion.  Publisher, editors, journalists, uh actors, educationalists, professors of political science.  Members of parliament, representatives of business circles.  "
--KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov
--Soviet Subversion of the Free Press (Ideological subversion, Destabilization, CRISIS - and the KGB)
 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2095202/posts
 
And so, all the progressive fiscally "conservative" McSheeple can now manage to "think" about (with the tiny little flacid brain between their legs) is who's winning American Idol and Danzing mit Der Starz in between commercials for Viagra and sleeping pills.

37 posted on 03/30/2013 9:24:11 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: Maelstorm
"Doug Mainwaring is a gay father in Maryland; he and I jointly signed an amicus brief in support of Proposition 8.......I am, moreover, the only person reared by a same-sex couple who signed an amicus brief in support of Proposition 8. "

1.  It's HOMOSEXUAL not "gay".

2.  Homosexuals are not fathers.

 

Uhuh.   Gee Opie Bob Lopez, what big eyes you have!   And Teeth!  You're proof that even a fiscally "conservative" stopped clock that ooozed out of a rented womb has the correct time twice a day.

Your amicus "support" amounts to nothing more than a weak parasitic attempt to legitimize/normalize the homosexual abomination of nature.

Quack, Waddle - amicus Trojan Wolf.

 

NO SALE

38 posted on 03/30/2013 9:42:37 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: wintertime

>>This isn’t about marriage.

No - It’s about this:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Transhumanist%2FPostgenderist

Meet the New Übermensch , Same as the Old Übermensch


39 posted on 03/30/2013 9:47:53 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: Alberta's Child

The Catholic Church in the United States became one of the most dominant “counter-cultural” forces in the world when it rightly decided that it wanted no part of the dominant Protestant culture of this country at the time.

...what in the world are you talking about? The Church, following the vacuous affair called the Second Vatican ecumenical Council, couldn’t rip its communion rails and altars out of the churches fast enough, couldn’t wait to vernacularize its liturgy, hopped on board turning its priests around to face the people and unveil an entire panoply of Protestant imitations, including desacralizing the language and devaluing the concept of priestly ordination, and the abominable communion in the hand...all this was done in the firm belief that ‘ecuminism’ was calling the Church to move swiftly to rejoin with its ‘separated brethren’...
...and along with all of that, remember the seminaries of the 1970’s, and its effluent gaycentrism, its lavendar mafia, if you will...and as for loss of Catholic identity? How many primary and secondary Catholic schools have closed since those same 1960’s? How many local churches have shuttered their doors, their faithful drifting away to mega churches and other such stuff?
...counter culture...we could only wish it were so...


40 posted on 03/30/2013 11:39:44 AM PDT by IrishBrigade
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To: 9YearLurker
I don’t believe all gays admit to such in surveys and I believe the numbers have been growing.

Did you go look at the survey? It was large and pretty comprehensive. From same:

This survey was about six times larger than other surveys.

I can understand why you feel the number is growing. Sometimes it seems that way to me also. But part of that is perception. The leftard press is running 90 miles an hour with this right now.

41 posted on 03/30/2013 12:22:38 PM PDT by upchuck (Free Republic: faster than a speeding bullet!)
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To: upchuck

It’s all based on popular media.

If someone from Mars watched MSM television shows, he would likely infer that the US is 30% black and 30% gay.


42 posted on 03/30/2013 12:26:51 PM PDT by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: Carbonsteel

Now Caligula maybe by some other name sounds just like what the American people may want in 2016.


43 posted on 03/30/2013 1:07:08 PM PDT by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: nascarnation
Amen. Which is why it seems like there's more queers than there really are.
44 posted on 03/30/2013 1:29:38 PM PDT by upchuck (Free Republic: faster than a speeding bullet!)
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To: upchuck

As I said, I believe the numbers are greater than those who self-identify in a telephone poll.

And the numbers in upper-middle-class strata in the Northeast, at least, among the youth, are definitely greater than that. I really think it matters by where in the country you live and somewhat by social group as well.


45 posted on 03/30/2013 1:31:42 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: IrishBrigade
You're right about all of that. I was referring to the Catholic Church in the United States from the latter decades of the 19th century up through the 1950s.

Vatican II marked the end of the Catholic Church as a "counter-cultural" institution. In fact, the Catholic Church became very much a "cultural" institution of the world from that point onward -- which basically means it isn't much of anything at this point.

46 posted on 03/31/2013 6:34:20 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: Maelstorm
We support traditional marriage for the simple reason that a child's right to a father and mother is a fundamental consideration recognized by international law.

Don't know where in our Constitution we are bound by considerations in international "law." Our government was instituted to secure God-given rights. If a child has a right to two parents, one male and one female, who provides it?

The author's claim to a solid and secular argument is not upheld by this "simple reason."

And what exactly is meant by a "fundamental consideration?" Or a recognized consideration?

How does it square with the so-called rights of homosexual couples to adopt children -- or for that matter, single individuals?

Stand on basic Judeo-Christian principles, rather than on considerations in international "law" to which no nation is bound anyway.

47 posted on 04/03/2013 9:02:07 AM PDT by HomeAtLast ( You're either with the Tea Party, or you're with the EBT Party.)
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To: Maelstorm
I wish conservatives would stop being distracted by religious issues surrounding marriage, and recognize that:
  1. The concept of heterosexual lifetime-mating pairs raising their young certainly predates religion and government, and may well predate all of humanity as well (such behavior has been observed in many animal species, in contexts where they cannot plausibly be imitating mankind). A family unit containing a man, one or more wives, and their offspring, is a type of social structure which exists and has existed in nearly all human societies throughout history. Such a group is fundamentally different from any possible grouping which does not contain exactly one male and at least one female; recognition of such differences cannot simply be a consequence of religious bigotry, since such recognition predates religion.

  2. A mother giving her child up for adoption has the right to refuse any prospective adoptive couple for any reason whatsoever that she sees fit, or instruct proxies to do so on her behalf; that would remain true even if the sole reason for her refusal was a desire to have her child raised by a (female) mother and a (male) father who were married to each other. I doubt those who are really pushing for "gay marriage" would agree with the latter point; I suspect the goal is to forbid "discrimination" with regard to such issues.
  3. Individuals, institutions, or companies who wish to voluntarily bestow favors upon married couples have the right to restrict their blessings to those couples they see fit to receive them, or refuse them as they see fit. Such right extends even in cases where the sole reason for refusal is the lack of one male and one female. Again, I doubt those pushing for "gay marriage" would agree, since their goal is to outlaw such "discrimination".
Gay marriage isn't about freedom for gay people; it's about giving them the power to prevent others from voluntarily recognizing historically-styled marriages without accepting their partnership.
48 posted on 04/03/2013 3:53:36 PM PDT by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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