Skip to comments.Pentagon awash in pink slips, preparing 800,000 civilian furloughs
Posted on 02/21/2013 3:31:23 PM PST by SkyPilot
The Defense Department on Wednesday officially notified Congress that it plans to begin furloughing its 800,000 civilian employees across the country if automatic spending cuts begin March 1, estimating the states would lose a total of $4.86 billion in workers wages this year.
According to Pentagon estimates, among the hardest-hit states would be Virginia, which would have about 88,000 affected workers and salary losses of $660.9 million; California, with 62,600 workers and $419.7 million in lost wages; and Maryland, with 45,700 workers and $359.3 million in lost earnings.
This is not a Beltway phenomenon, Jessica L. Wright, the acting undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness, told reporters at the Pentagon. More than 80 percent of our civilians work outside of the D.C. metro area. They live and work in every state of the union.
Under the furlough plan, civilian workers would be forced to take one day of unpaid leave each week for 22 weeks from late April through September, costing them about 20 percent of their pay during that time, Pentagon officials said.
In a written message, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta told civilian workers that they will be provided at least 30 days notice prior to executing a furlough and your benefits will be protected to the maximum extent possible.
He added that the Pentagon also will work to ensure that furloughs are executed in a consistent and appropriate manner.
Mr. Panetta noted that the department has been funded by a continuing resolution that has limited spending to 2012 levels and said the effects of sequestration may be felt more intensely because of it.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
You have to admit that SS recipients usually get much more than they paid into the system. After they get that amount back, it becomes an entitlement by definition.
I work for DOD civilians. It takes 10 people to do what it used to take 1. No one holds anyone accountable. If you try to hold someone accountable, you are villified. The incompetence is widespread. The fundamentals have been abandoned, the office of the Inspector General is worthless because they don't have the teeth they used to: there was a day when a "finding" was a major issue. Careers where lost. Present day, not so much. A finding by the IG is a suggestion.
People get hired now by who they know. Credentials mean nothing anymore. There is no integrity in the system.
Lastly, there is nothing and no one in position to turn it around. It will continue to devolve. Sorry for doom and gloom, but that is the way it is.
Some partial data points for this discussion:
1. We have a fleet which is not going to sea because of this.
2. Sailors and families which got out of apartment leases now have to scramble to find places to live in Virginia Beach, Charleston, Florida, etc.
3. Entitlement programs are untouched. They should be. Social Security, Medicaid, and all other entitlement programs should be eliminated and outlawed via enforcement of the general welfare clause.
4. The civilian side of DoD spends great energies and staff labors on many bureaucratic stupidities. If you lopped off two floors of my three-story DoD building, along with the concomitant amount of bureaucratic tasking, and along with about two-thirds of superfluous SES’ers and flag officers who create bureaucratic unnecessities, it’d be a good thing.
5. The low-level bureaucrat is not himself responsible for the bureaucracy. Although, in general, the bureaucrat loses the perspective that he sits in a bureaucracy. Please do not vent at the bureaucrat. Vent at your neighbors who elect politicians who fund these bureaucracies and invent unnecessary programs for bureaucrats to perform.
6. The military has already been drawn down by operational cuts. If you want to be ruled by the Chinese, then keep advocating for more cuts to forces. Fund the hegemon of your choice. I prefer that the United States be the global hegemon.
One of my bosses explicitly told us, for an upcoming DOD IG inspection, to not tell the inspectors that "something is stupid." He said it was "not professional" to point out that stupidly done things are done stupidly. My take-away from this is that I have nothing to say to the inspectors. Either that or I have to lie. This guy spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to stand-up a duplicate IT system to one already standing IN HIS OWN ORGANIZATION, managed from an office TEN STEPS from his own. Now he is hell-bent on further dividing our staff resources and labor to stand up a third duplicate (terribly dysfunctional) IT system hosted incompetently at our headquarters in D.C. We've spent 12 months working at an IT hosting task which should take a weekend in a world where we were spending our own money, and not that of the taxpayers, in a 47-layer deep bureaucracy.
Most of the potential customers of mine and the contractor I work for are low on work and money-and that means we are, too. I pray every day for just a couple of days a week of work, no matter how small the job or little the pay-most everyone I know prays for the same thing. I can’t imagine whining over a temporary furlough.
I feel so badly for the animals abandoned by owners-my three cats were shelter refugees-I’ve made a promise to myself that as soon as my life becomes better than hand-to-mouth again, the second bit of money I give to charity will be to the local animal shelter-the first, of course will be to my parish church-to God, as thanks for better circumstances.
How many employees are being furloughed from the EPA? Dept of Ed? HUD? HHS? Anyone? Anyone?
This is their go-to plan: punish the people when they dare to try to curb out-of-control deficit spending.
When someone tries to make the leftists figure out how to pay for their spending and then threaten to cut off that spending, the leftists say, “OK. We’ll have to cut off pay to the police, fire departments, libraries, parks, playgrounds, food for children, medicine for the elderly.”
There are many other recipients of purely wasteful spending that should be cut PERMANENTLY.
If 800,000 furloughed Civilian contract workers get pissed off enough to demand that the government end all these silly useless spending programs, then maybe something would be done to end them. The fact is that the money follows the votes. These politicians are interested in nothing more than getting and maintaining power. Most likely, however, about 750,000 of the 800,000 furloughed employees will blame the mean unfeeling Republicans rather than the kind hearted well meaning socialists. So the only thing that will happen is that the furloughs will become as permanent as the obamamphone programs.
Obama is a disease.
The OB supporters have been strangely quiet about the furloughs.
Have they ever not received their back pay?
Instead of lecturing congress, maybe the neutered JCS could push back on their boss. They’re supposed to be defending the Constitution, not their pensions.
I am so sorry ducttape. I will pray for you.
It is sickening. As I said a few days ago before FreeRepublic went down: I remember when this used to be a pro-military Conservative website.
The temperature of the nation right now is somewhere between panic, angst, uncertainty, anger, and depression.
All hail our leaders.
Obama is what he is: a homosexual with "daddy issues" who diddled Reggie Love last weekend, the press knew it, and no one cares.
The Republicans are just now starting to figure out that they lost last November, they don't control the Senate, they don't control the White House, they don't control a single Executive branch agency, and that Judas Robers sit atop the Supreme Court.
Guy like you, who work hard to earn what they have, are caught in the middle. The left hates you because you are not taking your SNAP card, ripping off American by claiming you should be getting Social Security Disability, and not taking your unemployment "benefits" for 99 weeks (which were extended again during the last "Fiscal Cliff" negotiations to the tune of about $35 Billion).
Money for that, yesiree.
Hand over fist.
Not for you, though.
I love Rush Limbaugh. I really do. The man is brilliant, and he has brought more insight into the actual workings of politics to Joe Everyman than this nation ever had before.
But on this issue, he is wrong. Dead wrong.
He is reading the talking points of Ryan and Cantor, and they will take the Republican party straight into the pit. The cuts are insignificant when compared to the entire fiscal outlays. The are not insignificant to DoD, that has to take a 30-40% Operations and Maintenance cut in just 6 months to absorb the costs. Not to mention this entire fiasco also ignores the fact that Entitlements (which are breaking the back of this nation) are exempt, and the military and working people are going to suffer the most from these cut taking place in the MIDDLE OF A FISCAL YEAR WHEN ALL AGENCIES WERE TOLD NOT TO EVEN PLAN FOR THEM BY BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES.
The Republicans will lose the House of Representatives in 2014 over the way they handled the Sequester issue.
Mark my words.
Meanwhile, on every channel, it’s “SEE WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING?? THEY ARE BRINGING MISERY TO MILLIONS!!!”
We’ve already lost the media messaging war on this.
But, you know, he's old, white and dispensable in the New World Order. Soon, they can death panel him out of existence.
How stupid does the "Stupid Party" have to be?
As of this morning, Ryan is going around bragging about these cuts.
"This is going to have a devastating impact on our economic recovery," Lowenthal said. "It will especially impact the people who are the most vulnerable." Ryan has predicted that Congress will allow sequestration cuts to kick in.
Four months ago, Ryan was campaigning and writing letters to the editor (with House Armed Services Chairman "Buck" McKeon) that they GOP had to STOP these cuts.
TO DOD Civilians along with other federal employees: BOO F__in HOO!
Yep. You can see in this thread those still stuck to Uncle Sugar for their fix are in denial.
Soon the Kenyan will come for them because the DOD budget will be eviscerated. The dems have dreamed about doing that for generations and now they see their chance. They won’t pass it up.
“You people on here that support this anger me to no end.”
Some people prefer to call us “Taxpayers”, but don’t worry, we don’t get much respect these days. Only our heroic public sector deserves that.
I support any cuts to government, where ever they occur. Life is tough, and if $22k after taxes isn’t enough for you, come on out in the rough-and-tumble of the private sector. You may make more, you may make less, but please...stop whining!
You are excoriating (that means berating, for you entitlement-minded public sector folks) the very people who pay for it all - and have EVERY RIGHT TO DEMAND CUTS - including cuts to YOUR PAY.
Do you understand that? Whether you like it or not, there are more cuts coming. We simply do not have the money.
So, to save America, we have to fire people like you, and lots more people that “NET” more than you, and some less than you.
It’s the only way....the ONLY way to save America.
Do you want some help working on a private-sector resume? I’ll give you assistance out of the goodness of my heart, but you’ll have to promise not to keep trying to take my money.
“Finally, some sanity here. It gets a bit frustrating when people with no earthly idea of what I do feel its okay to take 1/5 of my check for 6 months.”
The irony is palpable (That means “obvious” for you entitlement-minded public sector types)
How much of my private sector, self-employed money goes to pay for you? Why don’t you care when my work dries up?
Your check, and a lot of other public sector checks need to stop completely to save America. Thank you for the down-payment, but we need a whole lot of you to give the remaining 4/5ths and come over to the real economy and help push the wagon instead of riding in it.
Do you know how pathetic you sound?
Going after a guy who is works hard, makes very little, does not take unemployment, does not take Food Stamps, does not take "disability", and gives his labor to a noble institution (the military), only to have people like you say that to him?
I knew you had "issues." But this is a new low for you RFEngineer.
You hang in there.
"I sought the LORD, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears."
88,000 people at a cost of $660.9 M? That’s around $75,000 on average. 2% of that is $1,500. Suck it up buttercup.
“Good news?” You are seriously misguided. Most DoD civilians are ex-military who work side-by-side with active military guys. Because you’re rightfully pissed at Congress, it isn’t right to take it out on people who work for a living. You’re part of the electorate that re-elected O and the idiots in congress. You’re every bit as culpable and deserving to be out on the street.
This is good news if you want military aircraft grounded, ships that can’t get underway, and military guys who can’t get services (like getting paid!!).
“I knew you had “issues.” But this is a new low for you RFEngineer. “
LOL, my only issue is that I speak the truth without “sugarcoating”. There is an overflow of whining on these sequester threads, and you are the King of Whining.
I don’t have any patience for your lying about the amounts and impact of these “cuts”.
The poster said he “NETS” $22k after taxes - that’s a lot more than many in the private sector “NET”.
I’m not attacking anyone in particular - except maybe you because you are so deceptive, but America cannot afford all these government workers. We have to fire a whole bunch of them from every corner of government.
Yet, you pretend like we don’t have a problem.
These folks whining need to hear the truth. They are going to be fired in large numbers. They have to be to save the country.
So come on, Skypilot, how about a little sense of proportion and truth. These folks should be happy with even reduced paychecks - and use the opportunity to consider new lines of work, because the Budget Reaper cometh.
While a one day a week furlough is a lot, many state and local governments have been running one day a month furloughs for the last several years. They may be have seen 40 or more furlough days so far.
A wiser course would be freezing new hiring, offer early retirements, and implement an across the board reduction in force, with the goal of reducing the overall federal workforce by %5 to 10% depending on the department.
This should be done to all federal departments, not just the DoD.
I personally believe a bigger cut produces better results, because it would force a restructuring with the termination of entire programs and offices, not just cutting each division by one or two people. This is how Jack Welch fixed GE and Lou Gerstner fixed IBM. Cutting a small percentage every year does not produce the same results, even when the total cuts are the same, because it does not force a more efficient structure.
After unnecessary divisions and programs are eliminated, the goal should be to outsource as many federal jobs to contractors as possible. Contractors are driven by the profit motive, and the profit motive would force efficiencies into the workforce which the government model simply cannot do.
Again, this should be done to all federal departments, not just the DoD.
Do this, and we could easily cut 20% out of the total federal workforce budget.
How about this:
You're a jerk.
I second, motion approved, made it law. That was easy!
It’s different this time.
You make some very valid points. I wrote my Congressman about this. To be honest, he is a Republican and a very decent guy. I don't know if he is listening. I do know he is independently wealthy, which I don't fault him for. The Bible says: "Do not covet!" Yet, that is exactly what Americans think they should do.
I didn't know myself how bad this economy was until the last few weeks. I think people hide it well, but now I have seen things that I previously would not have believed. Perhaps people have stopped hiding it as much as they did. But I now see a lot of hurt people.
The GOP leadership is going to lose this one, and lose big. The Sequester is a disater, and they are all holding onto it like a life preserver, when in reality it is a iron weight in deep water.
Still, there is hope. Obama is not God. Far from it. God laughs at Obama (Psalm 2:4).
If we pray to God, and turn to Him, there is a solution.
Have you been involved in developing a weapon system and bring it to TC status?
This retired USMC Sgt. Major has his Stuff together.
Jimmy Carter, you are the father of the Islamic Nazi movement. You threw the Shah under the bus, welcomed the Ayatollah home, and then lacked the spine to confront the terrorists when they took our embassy and our people hostage. You're the "runner-in-chief."
Bill Clinton, you played ring around the Lewinsky while the terrorists were at war with us. You got us into a fight with them in Somalia and then you ran from it. Your weak-willed responses to the USS Cole and the First Trade Center Bombing and Our Embassy Bombings emboldened the killers. Each time you failed to respond adequately, they grew bolder, until 9/11/2001.
John Kerry, dishonesty is your most prominent attribute. You lied about American Soldiers in Vietnam ... Your military service, like your life, is more fiction than fact. You've accused our military of terrorizing women and children in Iraq. You called Iraq the wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, and the same words you used to describe Vietnam. You're a fake! You want to run from Iraq and abandon the Iraqis to murderers just as you did to the Vietnamese. Iraq, like Vietnam, is another war that you were for, before you were against it.
The late John Murtha, said our military was broken. He said we can't win militarily in Iraq. He accused United States Marines of cold-blooded murder without proof and said we should redeploy to Okinawa. Okinawa??? And the Democrats called him their military expert! Maybe he suffered a traumatic brain injury while he was off building his war hero resume? He was a sad, pitiable, corrupt, and washed up old fool, not a true Marine. He wouldn't amount to a good pimple on a real Marine's ass, a phony and a disgrace.
Dick Durbin, you accused our Soldiers at Guantanamo of being Nazis, tenders of Soviet style gulags and as bad as the regime of Pol Pot, who murdered two million of his own people after your party abandoned Southeast Asia to the Communists. Then you wanted to abandon the Iraqis to the same fate. History was not a good teacher for you, was it? Lord help us! See Dick run!
Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Carl Levine, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, Russ Feingold, Pat Leahy, Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, the Hollywood Leftist morons, et al, to name a few ad nauseam: Every time you stand in front of television cameras and broadcast to the Islamic Nazis that we went to war because our former President lied, that the war is wrong and our Soldiers are torturers, that we should leave Iraq, you give the Islamic butchers - the same ones that tortured and mutilated American Soldiers - cause to think that we'll run away again, and all they have to do is hang on a little longer. It is inevitable that we, the infidels, will have to defeat the Islamic jihadists. Better to do it on their turf, than later on ours after they may gain both strength and momentum.
American news media, the New York Times particularly: Each time you publish stories about national defense secrets and our intelligence gathering methods, you become one united with the sub-human pieces of camel dung that torture and mutilate the bodies of American Soldiers. You can't strike up the courage to publish cartoons, but you can help Al Qaeda destroy my country. Actually, you are more dangerous to us than Al Qaeda is. Think about that each time you face Mecca to admire your Pulitzer.
You are America's 'AXIS OF IDIOTS.' Your Collective Stupidity will destroy us. Self-serving politics and terrorist-abetting news scoops are more important to you than our national security or the lives of innocent civilians and Soldiers. It bothers you that defending ourselves gets in the way of your elitist sport of politics and your ignorant editorializing. There is as much blood on your hands as is on the hands of murdering terrorists. Don't ever doubt that. Your frolics will only serve to extend this war as they extended Vietnam. If you want our Soldiers home as you claim, knock off the crap and try supporting your country ahead of supporting your silly political aims and aiding our enemies.
Yes, I'm questioning your patriotism. Your loyalty ends with self. I'm also questioning why you're stealing air that decent Americans could be breathing. You don't deserve the protection of our men and women in uniform. You need to run away from this war, this country. Leave the war to the people who have the will to see it through and the country to people who are willing to defend it.
Our country has two enemies: Those who want to destroy us from the outside and those who attempt it from within.
Semper Fi, J. D. Pendry - Sergeant Major, USMC, Retired
THIS is the kind of guy that we need to run for political office....
As I understand it more money will still be spent than the previous year. That means you’ll get 101 pizzas instead of 110. Or there ‘bouts.
Over the last 3 months, the Social Security Administration field offices (600+ of them) reduced their hours to 27 hours a week from 32. Their base pay was not reduced, which means they received an effective hourly pay increase of about 16%.
These offices are loaded with FULL TIME employees.
Can you imagine an enterprise, striving to serve the public, that would open at 9 am and close at 3 (and noon on Wednesday) ?
NBC, CNN, ABC, and the other singers in the Obama Hallelujah Chorus will NOT be checking this out.
Maybe The Caller or Breitbart?
I’m guessing civilian contractors in Afghanistan will be exempted?
The constitutional function of defense spending as a percentage of the total budget was about 29% under Reagan. Today it's down to 14% of the total budget. Most everything else in the budget is unconstitutional spending.
Yet we have "conservatives" here (and Obama) who want to cut more defense spending.
Obama and them..
I hope we will get through this, but I am not optimistic at this point.
Hang in there. God is in control.
Granted, I know there is government waste. I see it day in and day out. I cringe inside when I see the thousands, and yes, millions and billions being wasted. I really do.
But geez louise, I finally get a decent paying job and look at what is about to happen. It's not the best job in the world, but it'll do. I work with the best group of co-workers I could ever ask for. Sure, some of them are a bit on the strange side, like me, but we laugh all day and it's fun to go into work. Yes the most of the management can't manage their way through a wet paper sack but I deal with it.
But now because we have a president in the WH who hates the military, who created this mess to begin with, who wants to take away 20% of my pay, and who is the very opposite of a Ronald Reagan or Abraham Lincoln, people want to give him a free pass at the expense of my pay check? And hey, let's also get one thing straight here, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE WE WILL NOT BE REIMBURSED FOR OUR LOST WAGES!
All you hypocrites, who want to see real budget tightening, tell the government to stop funding organizations like Sesame Street, NPR, Planned Parenthood; tell them to stop sending money overseas to countries that hate the USA, tell them to stop taking vacations that cost the tax payer on average of $500,000!!! Thatll pay for the 22 billion dollar shortfall that is going to cost me my salary.
I would love to be President if only for the sole reason of giving the government the type of reduction in force that will put it back to doing the job it's supposed to do, defend the nation and provide for a stable currency, PERIOD! I would also love to fire idiots like Harry Reid, Olympia Snowe, Charles Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and the like. I'd repeal the amendment that enabled Senators to be elected and put their appointment back in the hands of the states. I'd fire almost every Supreme Court justice and put constitutional scholars on it and get back it back to ruling justly. Lastly, I'd repeal every law, hate or otherwise, that outlaws or impedes true Christian faith from being practiced.
There is a very good chance that this will be different and that we WILL NOT RECEIVE any back pay. In addition, after the current 22 week furlough is completed, they are talking of bringing every back for 2 weeks and then DOING IT ALL OVER AGAIN FOR ALL OF FISCAL YEAR 2014. You still want to see good people out of work because the idiot in the WH?
“You’re a jerk.”
Possibly true, but I am also correct about the future prospects for those in government.
But whatever I am, I am not a liar, that is something you cannot claim.
Did you ever say on this board that you were collecting disabiltiy or that you were disabled in any way?
Be careful on how you answer this RFEngineer.
Even more important than what you say, you should be aware of what God says. I have warned you of this before.
I have only four words I'd love to say to you but God won't let me. I only respond by saying that I will pray for you.
God's Holy Word says in Matthew 5:43-48, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Go in the peace of the Lord.
Don't listen to RFEngineer or anyone else.
The waste in military, or any government agency, is not your burden.
Believe me, there is more "waste" in EVERY agency, Federal, State, and Local, that is more sinful than anything you should be associated with.
Every cop on this forum who padded his retirement for the last year of his career in order to maximize his/her retirement is guilty of sin. God knows it, and they know it. It was a crime, and they should be held accountable for it.
You, ducttape, are trying to earn your income despite what our Lords in Washington DC are doing.
I have the feeling that this is all about to collapse, politically speaking. I think that Paul Ryan, John Boehner, and Eric Cantor have NO idea what is taking place. They are holding meetings, and they think they have it all in hand.
SkyPilot, I am not on disability.
Go ahead, post that one reference where I jokingly referred to being on the dole.
You, however, are the worst kind of liar and deceiver. You cannot be reasoned with using mathematical fact, or economic logic.
Yet here you are lying your @ss off on the sequester day after day.
folks in government need to consider other employment. Many of them will need to find something to do.
You give them comfort and false hope that they will be fine.
“I have only four words I’d love to say to you but God won’t let me”
Say them. you’re thinking them, so God has already noted what is in your heart. It will be instructive, perhaps cathartic to you. Then update your resume.
You don’t realize it, but the guy who tells you the unadulterated truth is more of a friend than the guy who lies with a smile.
I know the reference (I have it) and it was not meant in jest. You deceived. Here on this forum. You continue to deceive.
Your credibility here is now zero.
On your belly.
Leave men like ducttape45 alone.
Men like him work for their living, they worship Jesus Christ, and they are better men than you will ever be.
“Your credibility here is now zero.”
Really? Post it. Or are you afraid?
If you really are daring post the full context.
“Men like him work for their living, they worship Jesus Christ, and they are better men than you will ever be.”
He will also be more unemployed than I will ever be, thanks to you.
“Hang in there. God is in control.”
No, the bond market is in control. God doesn’t control human frailties like deficit spending.
Give your heart to Christ. He is there for you.
I work on a base and the increase in civilian employees has been relentless in the past 4 years. Most are absolutely worthless. Many are “retired” officers that didn’t make the cut. I’ve never understood it in this environment and I have attributed it to Obama deliberately bloating the civilian workforce to buy democRat votes.
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