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Flu vaccine attitudes abroad differ from U.S. - Only U.S. and Canada encourage flu vaccine
CNN ^ | January 17, 2013 | Jen Christensen

Posted on 01/18/2013 10:27:23 AM PST by opentalk

(CNN) - The flu hasn't hit Europe as hard as it has the United States, health officials say, but when and if it does, don't expect a call for vaccination of the entire population.

Only the U.S. and Canada actually encourage everyone older than 6 months to get the flu vaccine.

Apparently, not a single country in Europe asks the general population to seek that same kind of protection, according to Robb Butler, the World Health Organization technical officer in vaccine preventable diseases and immunizations in the organization's Europe office in the Netherlands.

That's because global health experts say the data aren't there yet to support this kind of blanket vaccination policy, nor is there enough money. In fact, some scientists say the enthusiasm for mass vaccination in the United States may hurt efforts to create a better vaccine.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: canada; cn; flu; fluvaccine; health

1 posted on 01/18/2013 10:27:26 AM PST by opentalk
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To: opentalk

I think we’re an over vaccinated population and it weakens us.

Its your immune system, use it or lose it.


2 posted on 01/18/2013 10:32:13 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: opentalk
I read some stats that said 62% of those that got the vaccine didn't get the flu. But 38% did?? I'd say it was pretty worthless.

The big thing....If you're sick....STAY HOME !!

3 posted on 01/18/2013 10:34:32 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

Since many people who are sick DON’T stay at home, I carry a container of disinfectant wipes in the car. Whenever I come back to the car from a store (grocery, hardware, etc.) I grab a wipe and clean my hands well. Maybe it’s my imagination, but it seems to help - don’t feel like I’ve caught as many ‘bugs’ since I’ve been doing this.


4 posted on 01/18/2013 10:42:49 AM PST by MissMagnolia (You see, truth always resides wherever brave men still have ammunition. I pick truth. (John Ransom))
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To: MissMagnolia

Absolutely no question the flu vaccine works. It can be debated whether everyone should get it, but the gigantic pandemics do not occur like they used to occur.
Disinfectant wipes help as well.


5 posted on 01/18/2013 10:48:46 AM PST by arkfreepdom
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To: opentalk

Well, then, GlaxoSmithKline and Merck just aren’t doing their job! They need to get employers to force their employees to have the flu shot or be fired...yeah, that’s the ticket....


6 posted on 01/18/2013 10:49:05 AM PST by Sioux-san
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To: cripplecreek

Everyone I know who has had a recent flu vaccination, has been sick.


7 posted on 01/18/2013 10:55:51 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: opentalk

Wash your hands, keep them away from your nose and mouth, take big doses of Vitamins C & D and your chances of catching anything are greatly reduced.


8 posted on 01/18/2013 10:57:10 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: cripplecreek

We are the most vaccinated—and have the sickest children by a lot of different standards-—and have the most infertility....hmmmmm.....all corporate owners want a few more billion people off the earth........not only the highest fertility problems, but asthma, diabetes and, sleeping problems, autism/spectrum problems are epidemic.

No autism was even mentioned in our media in the 70’s and teachers went for decades never hearing of such a thing-—ever. Vaccination promotion and lower and lower ages with multiple vaccinations at one time????

is overloading the bodies of our children. There are known toxins in each vaccine and children are less efficient at ejecting toxins from their body and brains.

Flu vaccines are worthless and dangerous and actually weaken the immune system in adults with the continual injection of toxins—unnatural substances—through unnatural methods.


9 posted on 01/18/2013 11:01:54 AM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: cripplecreek

I was under the impression that the flu vaccine was essentially a weakened strain of the flu from last year. When you get the vaccine, what you are getting is a weakened flu virus, which is supposed to give your immune system a heads up on what anti-bodies it needs to start producing. If all of that is true, then the vaccine is making you “use” your immune system.

I could be rong though, it haz happened once befor.


10 posted on 01/18/2013 11:02:46 AM PST by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: cripplecreek

Vaccination uses your immune system.


11 posted on 01/18/2013 11:10:42 AM PST by Cold Heart
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To: UCANSEE2

There is a nasty cold going around. Everybody I know seems to have gotten it. Flu vaccine will not affect whether you get the cold or not.


12 posted on 01/18/2013 11:13:28 AM PST by Cold Heart
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To: ScubieNuc

Not weakened, dead.


13 posted on 01/18/2013 11:14:31 AM PST by Cold Heart
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To: opentalk

Vitamin D3 through the winter months has kept my primary-school-teacher wife and me free of Flu(and other virii) for 3 and a half years. Before that she used to bring colds and/or flu home 3-5 times a year.


14 posted on 01/18/2013 11:17:27 AM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: opentalk

Socialist medicine.


15 posted on 01/18/2013 11:20:33 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: UCANSEE2
Everyone I know who has had a recent flu vaccination, has been sick.
Sick with the flu? You CAN NOT get the flu from the shot - it's a DEAD virus.
16 posted on 01/18/2013 11:25:38 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Cold Heart

VITAMIN D3 Get it at Wal Mart. It’s cheap. My wife and I each take 10,000 units a day. Get it on line cheaper. NO VIRUS- not colds not flu.


17 posted on 01/18/2013 11:28:24 AM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: savagesusie
all corporate owners want a few more billion people off the earth ... Flu vaccines are worthless and dangerous and actually weaken the immune system
Gee, and for all these years I thought all the stupid, gullible DUmmies were over on DU.
18 posted on 01/18/2013 11:29:39 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: arthurus

In a tablet? How many milligrams do you take a day?


19 posted on 01/18/2013 11:33:18 AM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: arthurus

Nevermind, I see you already answered someone else. Sorry.


20 posted on 01/18/2013 11:37:03 AM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: arkfreepdom

The gigantic pandemics don’t occur like they used to in countries that don’t vaccinate also. There’s a lot of stuff that’s changed in our world since the last big pandemic, better understanding of germ theory, higher overall cleanliness, and wider availability of indoor plumbing probably have at least as much to do with the eradication of pandemics as vaccinations. Especially when it comes to something that mutates as regularly as the flu where there’s always a good chance that the flu you were vaccinated against isn’t the one you were exposed to at work.


21 posted on 01/18/2013 11:39:55 AM PST by discostu (I recommend a fifth of Jack and a bottle of Prozac)
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To: arthurus

That’s what I do.

Been doing it for years and it works for me.


22 posted on 01/18/2013 11:46:08 AM PST by DB
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To: savagesusie

No autism was even mentioned in our media in the 70’s and teachers went for decades never hearing of such a thing-—ever. Vaccination promotion and lower and lower ages with multiple vaccinations at
_________________________

Of course there were kids with the symptoms of autusim in the sixties and before. The low functioning ones were living in local state homes and medicated. The high funtioning ones wore pocket protectors and carried briefcases.

____________________

Due to mainstreaming the mentally handicapped population autism became known to the general population.


23 posted on 01/18/2013 11:57:49 AM PST by Chickensoup (200 million unarmed people killed in the 20th century by Leftist Totalitarian Fascists)
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To: savagesusie

I have had the flu vaccine from 18 to so far 43 and have never had a really bad flu at all. I would say the vaccine works using my experience. My wife has gotten it yearly since meeting me (1993) and our 4 children get it religiously. So in a sample of 6 people from ages 43, 43, 14, 12, 10, and 4 with little to no sickness and a wide variety of ages, I would say that the flu shot not only works but is a necessary responsibility for every American to have to ensure that the flu does not spread and actually dies off.


24 posted on 01/18/2013 12:00:48 PM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: arkfreepdom
Absolutely no question the flu vaccine works. It can be debated whether everyone should get it, but the gigantic pandemics do not occur like they used to occur.

So how come Europe is not getting any of those gigantic pandemics in spite of the low vaccination rates?

25 posted on 01/18/2013 12:02:50 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: James C. Bennett

So how come Europe is not getting any of those gigantic pandemics in spite of the low vaccination rates?

________________________

Logic...always in the way.


26 posted on 01/18/2013 12:05:09 PM PST by Chickensoup (200 million unarmed people killed in the 20th century by Leftist Totalitarian Fascists)
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To: opentalk

When in the military I had to take the mandatory flu shot. The shot made me more sick than I have ever been in my entire life! I had to get a penicillin shot to get rid fo the flu that the shot gave to me! Ask me if I am against the flu shot.


27 posted on 01/18/2013 12:07:05 PM PST by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (Learn three chords and you, too, can be a Rock Star!)
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To: napscoordinator

Problem with anecdotes is that they’re anecdotes. I’m also 43, have never gotten the flu shot in my entire life, and if I’ve ever gotten the flu it was so mild it was mistakable for a head cold and I was over it in 3 or 4 days. My 45 year old wife has the same story, no shots, no flu. So my anecdote with no shots and less flu than you says the shots are bad.

In the end we need to know ourselves. If your body has proven to be susceptible to the flu, get the shots, they probably won’t make things worse and might even help. If your body is able to fight it well, don’t get the shots, save it for somebody who needs it.

And we’re never killing the flu off. It mutates too fast, as long as we have to make vaccines against strains and not the whole thing it’ll stay alive because somebody will always be catching a strain other than what they were vaccinated against.


28 posted on 01/18/2013 12:07:38 PM PST by discostu (I recommend a fifth of Jack and a bottle of Prozac)
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To: riri

In tiny gel cap footballs. !0,00 units a day or two 5000 unit caps. Others take more or less. I take more when everyone around me is sick. No real reason or the increase but...


29 posted on 01/18/2013 12:09:27 PM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: arkfreepdom

There’s a national park where I hike and parts of it, formerly being private property, have homestead ruins, etc. on it. Back in the woods is an old cemetery. It’s interesting but terrible to walk through it ... almost all of the deaths were in 1918 from the ‘Spanish flu’. Young, old, middle-aged ... all represented in the graveyard. It must have been really terrible back in the day when that was going on.


30 posted on 01/18/2013 12:19:40 PM PST by MissMagnolia (You see, truth always resides wherever brave men still have ammunition. I pick truth. (John Ransom))
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To: opentalk; All

Vaccination isn’t perfect, but then again, neither are seat belts in cars.

Add to that influenza is *extremely* fickle, and very prone to mutate, even in the middle of an epidemic.

The Swine flu that menaced the US during president Ford *could* have been a major killer, but just before it got to the US, it mutated into a much less harmful strain.

However, just a few years ago, a fairly ordinary Swine flu in the rest of the world suddenly turned murderous in Ukraine. A lot of doctors there refused to believe it was the flu, because the lungs of many of the people who had died looked “burned black”. What they saw was an immune system overreaction called the Cytokine storm. They were not killed by the flu, but by their own immune system.

In fact, this year, as usual the vaccination was for the three *most likely* strains of flu, but the flu that hit was only a ‘cousin’ to one of those vaccine strains, so people only got “partial immunity.”

Importantly, flu is passed by coughing and sneezing most at the optimal temperature of 40F and low humidity. Raise the temperature and humidity, and flu becomes much more reliant on hand contamination.

So when out in public during cold and flu season, use hand sanitizer. It helps in a big way.

Importantly, for those who want to give their immune system a “workout”, there is a problem to your theory. That is, when you get a cold or flu, the symptoms you show are not the sickness itself, but your immune system response to it.

If you get a lot of strong symptoms, it just shows that your immune system is weak, and overreacting; it doesn’t necessarily strengthen it, just stress it. The time to strengthen your immune system is when you are *not* sick.

And there are lots of foods and herbs and “probiotic” live culture bacteria that you can eat that is known to strengthen your immune system.

But it is also important that your immune system be moderated, so it doesn’t overreact. It can be “too strong”, which can create some unpleasant problems as well.


31 posted on 01/18/2013 12:24:57 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: James C. Bennett
The data, whether anyone chooses to believe it, prove that the vaccine is effective.

Photobucket

Influenza pandemics are rare these days, but I'm sure Europe still suffers from serious bouts with the flu. Yurps don't vaccinate because the government controls healthcare. This is exactly what Obamacare will be bringing our way if given enough time.

All that doesn't take away from the fact that professional health organizations in this country recommend the flu vaccine because it's effective. European attitudes toward healthcare are nothing to tout.

32 posted on 01/18/2013 12:30:31 PM PST by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: Sacajaweau

a meta-study analyzing 22-23 flu studies over the last 50 years to see the efficacy of the flu vaccine found that getting the flu shot only decreased your chances of getting the flu by 4%.

IOW it’s hardly effective and hardly worth it. especially if you already take hygiene/disinecting precautions with hands, exposure, etc.


33 posted on 01/18/2013 12:35:10 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: arthurus

D3,Vit C, Zn, Fe,,,, I have a full collection.


34 posted on 01/18/2013 1:26:47 PM PST by Cold Heart
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To: UCANSEE2

I know an immune affected little boy who had the flu shot - and today he came home with the flu. :(


35 posted on 01/18/2013 1:30:20 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Secret Agent Man

This years shot is supposed to give 63% immunity. Next years could be worse or better, they have to out guess the flu mutation. There has been a lot of progress in medical science in 50 years. They are now working on a vaccine that will innoculate for all types of flu which you will need to get only once in every 10 years.


36 posted on 01/18/2013 1:32:59 PM PST by Cold Heart
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To: Cold Heart

havent gotten flu shots ever, and i hardly ever get the flu. maybe twice i the last 35 years.


37 posted on 01/18/2013 5:15:45 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Sacajaweau

I got a flu shot in November - lot of good it did me, been in bed three days with the flu!


38 posted on 01/18/2013 5:42:33 PM PST by StayoutdaBushesWay (Every man dies, but not every man really lives.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I don’t believe I have ever had the flu either. My dad survived the spanish flu pandemic & never had flu all his life. At 5 years old he remembers neighbors & a 5 year old across the street dying from the flu. When he got older (80’s)he started flu shots just in case. I got my first flu shot this year. Not elderly enough to die from it but joined the herd immunity. I had no reaction to it which probaly means I wouldn’t have gotten it anyway.

When I got my first cocktail of shots for going overseas I got very sick. Which leads me to believe there was something in there that could have killed me had I not been vaccinated and contracted it.


39 posted on 01/18/2013 6:44:54 PM PST by Cold Heart
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To: Cold Heart

the meta study i mentioned earlier basically ahows that herd immunity is a myth, that in fact is oe of the conclusions of the study. if the difference between those that get a shot and those that don’t catching the flu is only 4%, the whole herd immuinty concept for the flu shot is shot down in flames.


40 posted on 01/18/2013 7:33:45 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Cold Heart

I haven’t had a flu shot since I was a child.

I don’t get the flu, I don’t get colds.


41 posted on 01/18/2013 8:29:01 PM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: oh8eleven
Sick with the flu?

Not in all cases.

You CAN NOT get the flu from the shot - it's a DEAD virus.

You can get the flu, even if you get the shot. Many do.

42 posted on 01/18/2013 8:34:12 PM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Herd immunity works if the threshold limit for immunity reaches a set point for the specific disease. For polio, 80 to 86% of the population needed to be immune before herd immunity occured. Pertussis requires up to 94%. Herd immunity for a virus such as the flu which keeps mutating is a moving target and is probably not even calcuable. The present vaccine is stated to be 63% effective. That figure can change as the virus mutates. There are also people who have natural immunity, an unknown percentage. There is also community immunity, which if you are a vulnerable person, did not get the flu shot, surrounded by people who don’t have the flu or won’t get it, you won’t get it either.
When they get a vaccine that can block all flu viruses, which they are working on at this time, flu will have a set percentage for herd immunity just like other diseases.


43 posted on 01/18/2013 10:03:59 PM PST by Cold Heart
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To: opentalk

Sorry but I travel and I have not met anyone who knows anyone who has had the flu.

I think it is a big hoax to get people to take the vaccine because the drug comp donated money to O and now he owes them. Thus publicity to scare people to take the vaccine.


44 posted on 01/25/2013 8:42:18 AM PST by ncpatriot
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