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How big a Gun does Anyone Need?
American Thinker ^ | January 17, 2013 | Gary Henderson

Posted on 01/17/2013 8:29:38 PM PST by neverdem

The public discourse suddenly swirls angrily around this issue: How big a gun should people be allowed to own, with how many bullets? Despite all the furor, the question has a very simple answer. But it's the wrong question.

Even those who routinely carry a concealed weapon, and certainly many who don't, wrestle with the question, "How much firepower does anyone need?" Perhaps those who don't own weapons think the answer should be very close to zero. Those who know that many times each year violent attacks are stopped when someone simply shows a weapon understand that self-defense tools are legitimate and necessary, but still worry about where the line should be above that level.

Legislators are hurriedly drafting a variety of bills to answer the question, phrasing them in terms of how evil a weapon looks, whether it automatically chambers the next shell for you, and how many cartridges it can feed. For those more knowledgeable about guns, the real concern is with things far beyond the personal defense category: rocket-propelled grenades, for example, the sort of things jihadists bring to a party at the U.S. embassy.

Here are some simple, foundational ideas to help sort it out.

The first principle is that the federal government has no constitutional say whatsoever in the size or quantity of weapons maintained by the people -- because that very government is the most dangerous person in the room. The Second Amendment has one purpose: to ensure that "we the people" can withstand a tyrannical government, for perhaps the first time in history. The writings of James Madison (Federalist #46), among others, make that abundantly clear...

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment
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To: null and void
The leftist WILL be rounded up at that point. It will NOT be accidental.

AND it will come as a complete shock to them.

101 posted on 01/18/2013 9:34:58 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Yep, as it has every single time throughout history.


102 posted on 01/18/2013 9:41:30 AM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable Tyranny)
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To: MasterGunner01; Disambiguator
All of those 'problems' can be solved if you just use one of these...


103 posted on 01/18/2013 9:41:33 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: Farmer Dean
A 20MM Lahti.My brother used to own one of those. Used old car engines as target,one hit would shatter the block.

Too bad about that boating accident...

104 posted on 01/18/2013 9:43:47 AM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable Tyranny)
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To: null and void

The Occupants and Sodom and Gomorrah were TOLD what would happen, but they were too busy trying to sodomize the angels.


105 posted on 01/18/2013 9:48:45 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: null and void
The new dictatorship has no use for people with a proven track-record of disloyalty to their old government and the skills and will to overthrow it.

"You don't say."


106 posted on 01/18/2013 9:53:01 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: UCANSEE2

*shrug* Everybody dies. How many guys get chance to sodomize an angel?


107 posted on 01/18/2013 9:55:33 AM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable Tyranny)
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To: UCANSEE2

I did misspeak. They do have one use. Targets.


108 posted on 01/18/2013 9:59:26 AM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable Tyranny)
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To: mylife; xkaydet65

I hear that those Sonatas have plenty of engine. Problem is they run out of suspension at those speeds, and then...

BLAMMO!

I am not trying to be smart, but I don’t have a clue what mylife is talking about. Does he think the suspension blows up at high speed? In my younger years I took several cars north of 120. I doubt whether the suspension in those cars were any better than that found in a Sonata. Of course they all had several hundred pounds of detroit cast iron leading the way which may have helped add some stablity. (Heavy objects tend to want to go in a straight line.)


109 posted on 01/18/2013 10:58:44 AM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: null and void
How many guys get chance to sodomize an angel?

Happens every day.

110 posted on 01/18/2013 11:14:17 AM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: fireman15

No. I am saying it does not have a suspension made for those speeds.


111 posted on 01/18/2013 11:40:44 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

It’s not a matter of weapon size. The Constitution says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. The sentence ends there. There are no qualifiers.


112 posted on 01/18/2013 11:51:57 AM PST by Personal Responsibility (In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act - Orwell)
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To: UCANSEE2
Let's just say your life is far more interesting than mine, and leave it at that, mmmkay?
113 posted on 01/18/2013 12:07:56 PM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable Tyranny)
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To: Rebelbase
Nice muzzle brake.

Pic properties say the guy's name is Kirill Kuzmin. Looks like a Russian immigrant (okay, maybe from another former SSR) brought something of the old country with him -- token of his former service in The Suck, maybe?

Whatever. Looks like he's ready to show Barky's NBP peeps how to parrr-tay.

Sucker's 23mm at least, maybe 30. Just damn! I do believe that will stop Agent Hotchner's big black SUV.

114 posted on 01/18/2013 12:38:14 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Arrowhead1952

When you see that Warthog coming with its big gun and a rack of Mavericks slung underneath, you’d better have a tiny cave in a big mountain handy.


115 posted on 01/18/2013 12:55:44 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: neverdem; x; rustbucket
Here's the Madison quote the article linked to. I think this portion of Federalist 46 (the linked doc) is what he is talking about.

It's not a throwdown that Madison was correct here about the shoving match between federal and state governments, by the way. The Civil War gave these ideas a severe test, and a lot of people would say that the answer was "FAIL".

The only refuge left for those who prophesy the downfall of the State governments is the visionary supposition that the federal government may previously accumulate a military force for the projects of ambition. The reasonings contained in these papers must have been employed to little purpose indeed, if it could be necessary now to disprove the reality of this danger. That the people and the States should, for a sufficient period of time, elect an uninterrupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should, throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the States should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors.

For your information.

It certainly sounds like Madison is talking about us, doesn't it?

116 posted on 01/18/2013 1:07:05 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Rebelbase
I just realized that bipod has got skis on it!

They designed that gun for Todd and Sarah Palin -- LOL!

117 posted on 01/18/2013 1:09:07 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: neverdem

The amount of firepower needed is an individual decision, and not up to the government. The right to have arms is not based on need. We have a right to whatever we deem is needed.

We don’t tell the ritzy and ditzy entertainers/news people or the crazy congress critters how many security guards they need, and they should not be telling us what we need.

If they feel that restrictions are needed, let them start with their own brain dead selves and their security people and procedures.


118 posted on 01/18/2013 1:17:12 PM PST by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: neverdem

A .308 to the .338 Lapua


119 posted on 01/18/2013 1:28:44 PM PST by alphadog (2nd Bn. 3rd Marines, Vietnam, class of 68)
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To: neverdem

A .308 to the .338 Lapua


120 posted on 01/18/2013 1:30:18 PM PST by alphadog (2nd Bn. 3rd Marines, Vietnam, class of 68)
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To: MasterGunner01

BTW, did anyone know there are no laws regulating or prohibiting flamethrowers? Nothing says “stopping power” like a squirt of 2,200 degree Fahrenheit flaming jellied gasoline.


Just make sure you use clean burning ethanol gas in that.


121 posted on 01/18/2013 1:33:40 PM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: neverdem

At least as big as the gun being used against me.


122 posted on 01/18/2013 1:34:24 PM PST by crosshairs (All we are saying, is give a high cap piece a chance.)
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To: neverdem
The money quote from the article:

Whether we are discussing salt, tobacco, gasoline, fountain drinks, greasy hamburgers, or guns, much wrong-headed policy today is being driven by the question, "How much does anyone need?" In Venezuela, Soviet Russia, or present-day England, it might be different, but here the correct answer is, "Whatever they want."

Not because we support greed, plundering the rest of the world, or any of the other accusations the left throws at the right, but because of sovereignty. Your sovereignty.

123 posted on 01/18/2013 1:34:24 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: neverdem

124 posted on 01/18/2013 2:12:38 PM PST by Kenton (Finally, a charity worth supporting - Wounded Warrior Project! Donate today.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Something interesting that I got curious about skimmed once is how letters of Marque and Reprisal didn’t authorize scopes of firepower.

Congress just assumed private citizens knew where a private citizen could buy canon. No permission was needed to buy it, arm it or fire it. You only needed Congresses permission to fire it at a foreigner.

I like that. Excellent point!

125 posted on 01/18/2013 5:20:31 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Bathhouse Barry wants YOU to bend over for another four years)
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To: RipSawyer

The only pictures I seen of obama looking happy, he looked very creepy. There is that one on the couch with his pakistani roommate. There is also that one with him giggling like a fag during that karate match on the whitehouse lawn. There isn’t to many others of him as an adult I can recall. Usually he has a very bitter face.


126 posted on 01/18/2013 5:58:54 PM PST by castlegreyskull
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To: RipSawyer

The only pictures I seen of obama looking happy, he looked very creepy. There is that one on the couch with his pakistani roommate. There is also that one with him giggling like a fag during that karate match on the whitehouse lawn. There isn’t to many others of him as an adult I can recall. Usually he has a very bitter face.


127 posted on 01/18/2013 5:59:02 PM PST by castlegreyskull
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To: neverdem
Given the current occupant of the White House, I wish I could bear a 155mm howitzer. I wish I could bear a 81mm mortar. I wish I could bear a W88 nuclear device.

Unfortunately, I could bear a RPG, but can't find one on the underground market.

5.56mm

128 posted on 01/18/2013 6:09:24 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: null and void

I guess I meant the goverment owns the technology, it is considered a state secret.


129 posted on 01/18/2013 6:09:59 PM PST by castlegreyskull
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To: null and void

He sold it when his job moved from Alaska to Germany.As far as I know,that beast is still up in Alaska waiting.


130 posted on 01/18/2013 7:01:46 PM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: null and void

Sure, but can I assume you know what I meant ?


131 posted on 01/18/2013 8:39:16 PM PST by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Letters of Marque and Reprisal simply gave the bearer legal standing so as not to be considered a pirate.


132 posted on 01/18/2013 10:13:56 PM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Letters of Marque and Reprisal simply gave the bearer legal standing so as not to be considered a pirate.


133 posted on 01/18/2013 10:14:33 PM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Idaho_Cowboy
If some idiot from the DoE or EPA wants to check, then it's crispy critter time.
134 posted on 01/18/2013 10:38:04 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: reg45

I’m confused...that was my point.


135 posted on 01/19/2013 3:20:56 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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To: UCANSEE2
Sure, but can I assume you know what I meant ?

I don't see why not, I assumed I knew what you meant.

136 posted on 01/19/2013 7:59:31 AM PST by null and void (Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable Tyranny)
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To: null and void

Ah.... mutual bliss is so wonderful.


137 posted on 01/19/2013 8:48:09 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: UCANSEE2

Urban SUV?


138 posted on 01/21/2013 7:56:48 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: neverdem

What does need have to do with anything? It’s a choice.


139 posted on 01/21/2013 7:58:48 AM PST by OKSooner ("The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen." - Revelation 22:21)
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To: Nailbiter
At the bare minimum whatever the fed govt possesses, since they are buying with my tax dollars. I have the right to be equally armed.

When my moonbat liberal colleagues ask me the inane question I simply respond thusly: If the infantry carries it, the people must have it too, but in greater numbers! That usually sends most of them screaming from the room.

140 posted on 01/22/2013 8:05:36 AM PST by ExSoldier (Stand up and be counted... OR LINE UP AND BE NUMBERED...)
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To: neverdem

“How big a gun does anybody need?”

Many people, not just barking moonbats, don’t know anything about firearms, and don’t care to learn. That’s OK, that is their right, but if you are ignorant of the debate then you don’t have the right to just make up your own facts.

The debate of the minute is about “assault rifles (sic)” The assault rifle’s in question are 5.56mm/.223. This is pretty much the smallest center fire rifle
calibre, and hence, the smallest bullet commonly used. I said commonly. I realize .17 calibre is available. Now, bullet size is not 100% of the destructive power of a particular weapon but it along with velocity is.

Many people believe, and I have been personally told on this forum, that because our Military use this cartridge, that it has some mythical power to “blow people apart” and cause “tremendous destruction”. Actually, this weapon shoots a cartridge that is in probably the lower 10% of all centerfire rifle cartridges as far as “energy” which roughly translates into killing power.

You’ll hear all kind of things, like “cop killer” bullets. Bullets that “gasp” can defeat body armor. Hollow point bullets that are designed to “blow up” just for killing humans. All of these are misleading at best (10%), repeated out of ignorance (40%) and 50% out and out lies.

If the debate was “how big a gun do you need” then the AR-15 in 5.56 would be the absolute smallest you would need to consider.


141 posted on 01/22/2013 8:39:59 AM PST by saleman (!!!!)
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To: ExSoldier

I will remember that- I do love making them scream!!


142 posted on 01/22/2013 8:34:17 PM PST by Nailbiter
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