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Let's be Honest: Guns are just a small part of the USA's problems.
BI ^ | 12/23/2012 | Geoffrey Ingersoll

Posted on 01/09/2013 5:32:14 AM PST by GlockThe Vote

Let's be clear: when Congress passes an "assault weapons" ban (and they will pass a ban), it'll be pretty much toothless.

That the law will likely leave most things unchanged doesn't matter — the government simply has to do something.

Much like Clinton's ban in 1994, this new legislation will be rife with loopholes.

To effectively ban weapons in the U.S., a country with 90 guns for every 100 people, the government would have to outlaw all semiautomatic weapons.

That's not all though.

It would then have to double, if not triple, the staff at Alcohol Tobacco Firearms, and sweep through the nation conducting mandatory buybacks, using the FBI's gun registry as a roadmap. That's right, no grandfathered weapons allowed either (unlike Rep. Diane Feinstein's new bill, which allows grandfathered weapons).

To call the strategy costly would be an understatement — even in terms of human cost — how long before the ATF is in an intense shootout with some Midwestern militia?

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; duplicate; guncontrol; secondamendment; tyranny; wewillnotcomply; youwillnotdisarmus
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F Obama and the leftists!
1 posted on 01/09/2013 5:32:21 AM PST by GlockThe Vote
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To: GlockThe Vote

That’s true. The government has to do something and inanimate objects are way easier to control than people. You can easily sit around and talk about this weapon or that at committees on tv in the radio. No one knows what to say or do when it comes down to people committing random acts.


2 posted on 01/09/2013 5:37:12 AM PST by stuartcr ("I upraded my moral compass to a GPS, to keep up with the times.")
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To: GlockThe Vote

Let’s be even MORE honest. Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens are NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL!


3 posted on 01/09/2013 5:41:29 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: stuartcr

> No one knows what to say or do when it comes down to people committing random act

The left knows what to do - ban random acts...:: )


4 posted on 01/09/2013 5:41:49 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Correctamundo.

I wpuld not even have a problem w some type of training requirement as I know a lot of people w guns who quite honestly are probably more a danger to themselves at this point.

But that is besides the point, these commies are trying to go after people who are no danger whatsoever to the public.


5 posted on 01/09/2013 5:43:29 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

If we want to be honest, guns are not the problem at all in America. That’s like saying knives are the problem...or cars are the problem...or poisons are the problem...or electricity is the problem...or any other object/device that can be used to harm/maim/kill is the problem.

No, if we want to be honest, sin is the problem in America...or anywhere else, for that matter.


6 posted on 01/09/2013 5:44:29 AM PST by MarDav
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To: jsanders2001

Ban earthquakes!


7 posted on 01/09/2013 5:45:11 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote
Let's be Honest: Guns are just a small part of the USA's problems.

Let's be Honest: Criminals are the USA's problem, brought about by the laxity of the liberal, do-gooder courts.

8 posted on 01/09/2013 5:46:26 AM PST by chainsaw ("Two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by Obama")
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To: MarDav

In a nation of 300,000,000 people w a 24/7 media looking for anything whatsoever to obsess over - we get a few isolated incidents blown up to be national tragedies when they are not.

Sad YES!

But with 300,000,000 bad stuff is going to happen from time to time.


9 posted on 01/09/2013 5:47:52 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: jsanders2001

Every person on a shooting spree has been certifiably insane. The problem is we let crazy people walk around with no monitoring.


10 posted on 01/09/2013 5:48:22 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: chainsaw

Correct - the leftists and communists blame guns instead of the failed liberal utopia that is all around for everyone to see.


11 posted on 01/09/2013 5:49:26 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Lazamataz

Gun owners like ourselves will look like complete asses if we choose to fall on our sword over mentally ill people getting CCW.

I personally have no problem w denying guns to mnentally deranged people, felons, and have some type of training requirement and class for safe storage, usage, etc.


12 posted on 01/09/2013 5:51:12 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

I have a problem with the felons one. If they did their time, they should be given a second chance on guns. If they are multple-felon, then maybe deny.


13 posted on 01/09/2013 5:52:28 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: Lazamataz

Right now we have to be smart about this. Fighting for felons and mentally ill people to own guns to me looks awful, regardless of the principals behind it and will be used to make a mockery of us.

Just my .02


14 posted on 01/09/2013 5:54:33 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote
Let's be Honest: Guns are just a small part of the USA's problems.

If we're going to be honest, claiming that guns are even a small part of America's problems is counterproductive.

Guns are not even a small part of America's problems; the authors premise is a lie.

More guns in the hands of the right people are very much a part of the SOLUTION to America's problems. Hence, any legislative action other than repealing some or all of America's 20,000 gun-control laws is only preventing a solution.

It's quite clear that the gun-banners, the Dianne Feinsteins and Chuck Schumers and Barack 0bamas of the world WANT more dead innocent children. They WANT innocent people to be trampled and killed by criminals and tyrants.

The gun-ban crowd are simply evil.

15 posted on 01/09/2013 5:57:02 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: GlockThe Vote
"I personally have no problem w denying guns to mnentally deranged people..."

The problem is who gets to make that determination. In the Soviet Union, dissenting views frequently resulted in a diagnosis of mental illness.

Political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union

16 posted on 01/09/2013 5:57:21 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: GlockThe Vote

They will deliberately leave guns in the hands of criminals, while trying to take them from honest, law-abiding citizens.


17 posted on 01/09/2013 6:01:16 AM PST by I want the USA back
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To: GlockThe Vote

Guess who will get to decide who is mentally unfit?
The medical profession that is run by uncle sugar.


18 posted on 01/09/2013 6:02:38 AM PST by Texas resident (The idiots run the show now)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Oh, I agree. We have to stem the flood right now. Mentally ill should be 100% denied, and if they are certifiable, they need to have the guns plucked right out of their hands. To a person, the last 5 mass shootings have been crazies.


19 posted on 01/09/2013 6:03:04 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Seeing what that aurora freak was warning of prior to his shrink - uuummmm - sorry - that dude does not and should not get a gun legally.


20 posted on 01/09/2013 6:04:37 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Any history of depression can be construed as mental illness. The stats on “depression” in this country are staggering.

Who will define mental illness as the basis for not owning firearms?


21 posted on 01/09/2013 6:07:10 AM PST by wrench
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To: GlockThe Vote
I personally have no problem w denying guns to mnentally deranged people, felons, and have some type of training requirement and class for safe storage, usage, etc.

I'm not well read on the constitution.

What restrictions does the 2nd Amendment impose?

22 posted on 01/09/2013 6:08:29 AM PST by sonofagun (Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Whenever an atrocity like Sandy Hill happens the left uses it to promote restrictive gun laws that in no way would prevent a future occurrance of the event. This shows they are interested in fixing what actually happened, only in promoting their antigun agenda.

Interestingly the left has taught us how to handle incidents like this- GO ON THE OFFENSIVE. Back in the 80s when gays were busy spreading AIDS thoughout the country and killing millions of people, they didnt hang their heads, apologize for it and accept new laws against homosex. They demanded MORE rights, in fact they demanded that normal epidemiological reporting of venereal disease and the notification of sex partners be banned (which helped spread the disease and killed more people).
The second ammendment is a right and we should push for an expansion of it not more restrictions that will do no good.


23 posted on 01/09/2013 6:09:47 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: wrench

I had to talk one of my severly depressed friends off the ledge a few times from killing his ex.

People w Bi-polar, schizophrenia, etc should not get access to legal weapons IMHO.

Of course if they want one illegally there will always be a way - but we are going to lose big time on this if we plant or flag for felons and schizos


24 posted on 01/09/2013 6:10:11 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Pointing out the errors in this piece starts with the first word and ends with the last. The picture of Rambo shows him using an M-60, a 7.62 machine gun, which Americans can’t buy without giving up your firstborn child. Tet, this “Marine Corps veteran” says Rambo uses a .50 caliber machine gun.

I have never seen Bugs Bunny “wrapped” over the head with a hammer. Rapped, maybe; but not wrapped. He wants confiscation, which belies his being a Second Amendment supporter and betrays his oath as a Marine.

Finally, in an article advocating the disarming the people, by force, if necessary; he concludes that the problem is bigger than guns. Thanks for nothing.


25 posted on 01/09/2013 6:10:24 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: GlockThe Vote
"Seeing what that aurora freak was warning of prior to his shrink - uuummmm - sorry - that dude does not and should not get a gun legally."

If there is a diagnosis that somebody is an immediate threat to themselves or others, they need to be locked up. At that point its not a matter of dickering of what civil rights they may or may not have, and firearms ownership should be among the least considerations. If somebody is going to be dangerous with a firearm due to psychosis, they are every bit as much a threat with a car, an axe, a chainsaw etc. and need to be committed.

26 posted on 01/09/2013 6:10:48 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: I want the USA back

They deliberately armed the narco armies in Mexico in order to create a chaotic situation with the ultimate end goal of disarming the American citizens.
Think of the situation if the justice department had suceeded in that plan.
Fast and furious blew up in their faces, but their goals have not changed. They are just looking for another avenue to achieve the same goal. If Sandy Hook doesn’t get it for them, there will be another incedent down the road that they can use.
“never let a crisis go to waste”


27 posted on 01/09/2013 6:11:58 AM PST by Texas resident (The idiots run the show now)
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To: sonofagun

That is a losing argument when you consider impositions that have been imposed on the 1st Amendement that have passed muster that are set in stone.

If we want to fall on sword for felons and shizos - well good luck - we are going to lose everything.


28 posted on 01/09/2013 6:13:48 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote
Even I, a proud Second Amendment supporting Iraq War veteran, am second-guessing the necessity for ownership of AR-series rifles (even glocks and deadly pistols).

Stalin: killed 50 million of his own people; Mao: killed 75 million of his own people; Hitler: killed 25 million people; Pol Pot, Castro, Lenin, and others: killed many millions more.

Who will stop the tyrant, if not a well armed citizenry?

Who do you trust more with a gun? The average citizen who works a job to support his family? Or some Fed agent who doesn't make policy, he just follows orders?

I'm waiting to hear another solution which solves the problem of tyranny more effectively than the 2nd Amendment.

Because it sounds to me like the proposed 'cure' is much worse than the 'disease'.

29 posted on 01/09/2013 6:16:48 AM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: Joe 6-pack

correct - and that is why we should steer the focus to the failings of the mental health industry since all of these psychos who did these mass killings were clinically F’ed up!


30 posted on 01/09/2013 6:17:07 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Lazamataz

“I have a problem with the felons one. If they did their time, they should be given a second chance on guns. If they are multple-felon, then maybe deny.”

I dont have a problem denying guns to felons even if they did their time. I have a problem with denying guns to guys who are going through a divorce and whose wives put out an order of protection against them for spite. It happened to a friend of mine even though no accusation of violence was ever made. It happens all the time.


31 posted on 01/09/2013 6:18:10 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: GlockThe Vote
Just for interest:

"The United Kingdom has a total recorded crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people; the United States of America records approximately 80"

"A 2006 statistical analysis found no measurable effect detectable from the 1997 firearms legislation."

"In the year Apr 2010 to Mar 2011 there were 11,227 recorded offences involving firearms, broken down as follows.

By weapon type:
Long-barrelled shotgun = 406
Sawn-off shotgun = 202
Handgun = 3,105
Rifle = 74
Imitation firearm = 1,610
Unidentified firearm = 957
Other firearm = 670
Air weapons = 4,203

"According to Nationmaster, the UK has the third highest number of persons per crime, on the planet, at 26.4% of their population."

"According to Mail Online News, gun crime has skyrocketed in the last decade despite a weapons ban in effect"

As you can see a ban is extremely effective....[/sc]
Source wiki

32 posted on 01/09/2013 6:18:23 AM PST by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. The Edge of the world is Square and water pours over it!)
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To: GlockThe Vote
I wpuld not even have a problem w some type of training requirement as I know a lot of people w guns who quite honestly are probably more a danger to themselves at this point.

I understand your sentiment, but I have a huge problem with any training requirement, at least a governmental requirement. As you admit, it would be for our own safety, which is the slippery slope of all government enslavement. As CS Lewis says, the tyrant who works for our own good never sleeps....

33 posted on 01/09/2013 6:19:51 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright
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To: wrench
Any history of depression can be construed as mental illness. The stats on “depression” in this country are staggering.

Who will define mental illness as the basis for not owning firearms?

This is exactly what the gun-ban crowd would like to do. Does anyone have any idea how many tens of millions of people have taken anti-depressants over the last few decades? If you've taken them, that means your doctor has deterined that (at least at the time) you suffered from some degree of mental illness. This WILL be used as a way of denying people the right to keep and bear firearms. If they have no moral qualms about dancing over the still-warm bodies of children victimized by a nut, why would anyone think that they'd have moral qualms about disarming tens of millions of people using some other means (that they can claim is "only reasonable")?

34 posted on 01/09/2013 6:21:38 AM PST by Ancesthntr (Banning guns to prevent crime is like banning cars to prevent drunk driving.)
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To: GlockThe Vote

I once practiced to become a magician. I’m no good at it but I remember the overriding principle if misdirection. Never let the audience focus on what you’re doing. Change the focus with a flourish of a scarf, a scantily clad assistant or the famous smoke and mirrors.

The furor about gun control has me wondering about to what end are we being played? What is the Left really up to? What’s really going on.

We are being played with all of this. There will be new legislation but that’s not what this noise is all about.


35 posted on 01/09/2013 6:29:40 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Mentally ill people are already banned from owning guns. The bat sh** crazy guy who killed all those kids was denied a firearm when he tried to buy one. So he killed his mother and took her guns. Where the he** have you been living that you don’t know that mentally ill people can’t buy firearms legally in the USA? As for the rest of your statement, requiring training in order to buy a firearm is just as much an infringement on our rights as are permits to carry.


36 posted on 01/09/2013 6:30:28 AM PST by calex59
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PS, Felons can’t legally buy firearms in the USA either. Read a little and learn something.


37 posted on 01/09/2013 6:31:40 AM PST by calex59
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Look - I have been to few ranges where they rent guns to anyone and quite honestly - I was horrified at how poorly trained a lot of these people were.

I’m not saying a govt course - but maybe something run by the NRA, GOA, or Front Sight or something like that.

When my GF first got her license and the first time I took her to the range - good God - I’m surprised I walked away alive. Thankfully she has become a lot better after much range time and some training.


38 posted on 01/09/2013 6:33:33 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

So cut to the chase, Geoffrey, what is your solution? Communist dictatorship with “the right people” at the helm? Mass slavery? Elimination of wrong-thinking people?


39 posted on 01/09/2013 6:37:53 AM PST by jughandle
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To: calex59

Hey genius - that is why I am saying we need to focus on the mother who was reckless, the people who knew this kid was batshit crazy, etc.

Same as Aurora, same as Colorado, same as VA Tech.


40 posted on 01/09/2013 6:38:14 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: LucianOfSamasota
Or some Fed agent who doesn't make policy, he just follows orders?

This defense did not work at Nuremberg. Some of the concentration camp guards tried to use it but were hanged anyway.

Stalin: killed 50 million of his own people; Mao: killed 75 million of his own people; Hitler: killed 25 million people; Pol Pot, Castro, Lenin, and others: killed many millions more.

Hitler had the Jews, blacks, homos and infirm as his targets. Pol Pot had the intellectuals as his. Who will be the targets in the US? Whites, Repubs, US citizens, anyone have any ideas?

41 posted on 01/09/2013 6:41:28 AM PST by USAF80
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To: USAF80

I have an idea - all of the gun control zealots who want to disarm the public lead the charge and act as point man on the raids.

Let them put their money where their mouth is.


42 posted on 01/09/2013 6:44:49 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote
What does this mean: "...using the FBI's gun registry as a roadmap."

How the heck can the FBI have a "gun registry"?

43 posted on 01/09/2013 6:57:34 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Guns may soon become the solution.


44 posted on 01/09/2013 7:09:19 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: SVTCobra03

Let the gun control zeaolts lead the charge to try to disarm people.


45 posted on 01/09/2013 7:17:51 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Joe 6-pack; GlockThe Vote

It is not the weapon that is the problem it is the insane and the criminal. The politicians want to control law abiding citizens and they can only do that if they disarm us first. Instead of controlling the problems, the politicians let the criminals and insane run free on the streets to commit crimes and then use those crimes against us and not against the criminals and insane. If someone of age is not responsible enough to a full member of society (full rights including self defense rights) then they should not be in society. We cannot allow the government to infringe because the government only takes and we will never get it back.


46 posted on 01/09/2013 7:20:51 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: Ratman83

Freedom requires responsibility of the members of society.

Those w guns need to know if there is a psycho crack pot under their roof and act in a responsible way.

Had the mother in Newton simply transfered the guns to a friend or had this kid sent away for help perhaps this whole mess could have been avoided.


47 posted on 01/09/2013 7:24:51 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote
Let's be clear: when Congress passes an "assault weapons" ban (and they will pass a ban)

I disagree, I don't think an AWB will ever be allowed out of committee in the House. (a committee stacked with a majority of pro-gun Republicans by the way). There a $hitload of Republicans and even quite a few democrats would rather not have a vote at all than be put on the record supporting gun control even if they secretly support a ban, and killing it in committee is the easiest way to do that.

48 posted on 01/09/2013 7:26:16 AM PST by apillar
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To: GlockThe Vote

The mother was working on having her son submitted but because the left wants to control law abiding citizens it is hard to do. There is also no reason for her to give up her rights and protection. Bad people will do bad things, punishing good people for the actions or possible actions of bad people is wrong. Our rights do not come from the government and the 2nd amendment is a limit on government not us.


49 posted on 01/09/2013 7:37:32 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: Lazamataz
"The problem is we let crazy people walk around with no monitoring"

Please remember to thank the ACLU for litigating to turn loose all of the fruits and nuts who cannot function in an organiozed society out into the general populace.

Peopel who have absolutely no ability to care for themselves or who are demonstrably feral and dangerous wander the streets because they have "rights" too.

50 posted on 01/09/2013 7:44:32 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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