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Fiscal Cliff Deal Limps Across Finish Line in House
Roll Call ^ | 1/1/2013 | Daniel Newhauser

Posted on 01/01/2013 8:36:34 PM PST by GVnana

The Congress that convened two years ago under the war cries of the tea party is slowly coming to an end with a Champagne-less whimper on New Year’s Day 2013.

The House voted late Tuesday evening, in a rare holiday session, to pass a fiscal cliff bill brokered without the involvement of the GOP majority and with far less than half of their votes.

The bill (HR 8) was amended by the Senate in the early morning hours on an 89-8 vote, carrying language crafted over the holiday weekend by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

The 257-167 roll call in the humbled House concluded close to 11 p.m., with 172 Democratic votes and only 85 Republicans, fewer of their own conference than GOP leaders hoped for perhaps, but more than enough to clear the necessary majority to send the legislation to President Barack Obama’s desk.

“Am I having a nightmare, or what?” Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio could be heard saying on the House floor, perhaps in jest. Boehner voted for the measure. Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia and Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy of California and Chief Deputy Whip Peter Roskam of Illinois all voted against it. Budget Chairman Paul D. Ryan, R-Wis., who has largely remained quiet during the debate over the last few weeks, voted for the legislation.


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To: JRandomFreeper
But a party that comes on FR and says that if I don't vote for their liberal, I'm the sole cause of the downfall of western civilization, then caves on something simple like this?

And we are still hearing how "there's noooo way" that the House will go for an AWB.

Yeah, sure.

I'm betting that they can't frigging wait to cave and give the leftists everything they want.

101 posted on 01/02/2013 12:03:45 AM PST by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: entropy12
The spending issue will be dealt with during the debt limit coming up soon. Spending and debt are more directly relevant. If GOP caves there, then we are indeed sunk.

The Republicans don't need to cave. All they need to do is nothing and let the expense reduction portion of the sequester go over the cliff. Subsequent legislation can fund emergency defense expenditures. Letting the expense sequester go over the cliff will save $3 trillion over ten years, while last night's vote is scored to raise only $600 billion over ten years: a 5:1 ratio of cuts to tax increases.

The Democrats gave away all their leverage when they agreed to the permanent tax rates without getting an agreement to end the expense sequester.

I'm with you: celebrating.

102 posted on 01/02/2013 12:10:20 AM PST by Kennard
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To: SIDENET
The zampolits are thick tonight.

So comrade, how are you?

Better.

How?

Better than tomorrow, worse than yesterday.

Who thought I'd be reviving old Soviet Union jokes in the US in 2013?

You can pick up your car in 10 years.

Morning or evening?

Why does it matter?

Because the plumber is going to be there that morning.

/johnny

103 posted on 01/02/2013 12:18:34 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: GeronL

All I can say is I hope you will begin to like what Obama will be doing to you in the next 4 years. Frankly I would take a Massachusetts moderate (as Newt calls him) over a socialist thug from Chicago, since I spent 35 years in Chicago, and know how they operate first hand.


104 posted on 01/02/2013 12:26:59 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: Kennard

Glad to see at least a few are thinking rationally on this subject, such as yourself.


105 posted on 01/02/2013 12:29:37 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: entropy12

Yup. I take that as a win!

The tax issue is resolved. Now we have to fight to reduce spending and work for entitlement reform.

This is one chapter in a long battle and I’m not getting worked up over it.


106 posted on 01/02/2013 1:39:20 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: JRandomFreeper
LOL.

Who thought I'd be reviving old Soviet Union jokes in the US in 2013?

I have a feeling that we may have to dust off some more of those Soviet-era jokes.

107 posted on 01/02/2013 2:03:53 AM PST by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: dfwgator

“It could have been a lot worse.
Could be raining.”

LOL! It is raining; it’s raining Dem votes. Worse than a hailstorm.


108 posted on 01/02/2013 2:09:42 AM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: GVnana
Give it a few minutes and we will see the republican defenders in on this. Of how they just cannot do anything to stop Obama's unconstitutional abuse of power. They don't have the votes. They are good people and so polite. Blah blah blah. People up there in the house with the majority caved in, increasing taxes to keep up this welfare government. Any extra money they tax us with, is used for more government spending. If you think you're saving, are you in for a shocker. We all should be taxed the same and no man or woman should pay taxes endlessly into a pit for others who draw money and refuse to work. Shame on those who think it's okay to make the producer pay more so you can live comfortable. Newsflash, they are already paying more. This is talking out of both ends. Be a conservative; stop playing as one. It's not okay to cave on principles and hope for a new day. The moderates are among us. The people who supported Romney were wrong. Stop telling us the nonsense. The House has the majority.
109 posted on 01/02/2013 2:59:07 AM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. Our nation's foundation is under attack.)
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To: Christie at the beach

This was about income redistribution. The republicans are just like the democrats. If they ever get a majority again, it would only be due to some strange happening because this does not look right for them to MAKE a group of taxpayers take the blame and burden to help the economy by taxing them; only to pump up this government shell game. We are all suppose to be EQUAL!! This is class warfare, again though now it’s the republicans. When you already have millions staying home during the last election, what is it to say those people and more are not coming back to support them. It’s just basics. Justice Roberts, Obamacare, all the corruption and now this. How much longer do people not get this.


110 posted on 01/02/2013 3:13:46 AM PST by Christie at the beach (I like Newt. Our nation's foundation is under attack.)
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To: entropy12

People don’t understand that the whole “cliff” thing was a debacle from the moment it was set up. The Dems calculated it would give them super leverage in the crunch. They are playing chess while the GOP is playing checkers.

I think the GOP came out with as much as they could get and maybe more — plus they held off a one-year extension of the sequestration. Even the sequestration was a Dem set up, loaded to hit defense spending and thus give Dems leverage.

So, the original stupid mistake was to agree to the whole cliff arrangement with sequestration — the GOP walked right into that with their eyes wide shut.

The GOP preserved future leverage, however, with the final deal and they have additional leverage with the debt limit. Obama says he’s not going to ‘play’ over the debt limit and will play brinksmanship again. The GOP has to figure out how to trap him in his own game. It can be done.


111 posted on 01/02/2013 3:23:33 AM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: WashingtonSource
"The GOP preserved future leverage, however, with the final deal and they have additional leverage with the debt limit. Obama says he’s not going to ‘play’ over the debt limit and will play brinksmanship again. The GOP has to figure out how to trap him in his own game. It can be done."

Or maybe not:

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/01/01/obama-there-is-no-more-debt-ceiling/

112 posted on 01/02/2013 5:16:13 AM PST by Truth29
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To: Truth29

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/01/01/obama-there-is-no-more-debt-ceiling/


113 posted on 01/02/2013 5:52:13 AM PST by Truth29
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To: ElkGroveDan

I think I meant to comment to the original guy you commented too.

But to your second question - I would prefer tax increases than to negotiate with Dems as that leads to increased spending.


114 posted on 01/02/2013 5:57:51 AM PST by impimp
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To: Fledermaus
You have no ideal of how much time this took.


115 posted on 01/02/2013 7:57:16 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Yosemitest

Thanx for doing the work!


116 posted on 01/02/2013 7:58:56 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: Yosemitest
good post.

And look did the idiot Ron Paul vote for this ? Where are the paultards now. what a hypocrite , or are they all just idiots fooled by the media.

117 posted on 01/02/2013 7:59:45 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: Yosemitest

Good work.

I’ll be sending emails to those idiots , using your links.

and look did Ron Paul vote for this marxism(progressive income tax)? what a hypocrite or a media fooled idiot.


118 posted on 01/02/2013 8:01:52 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: JRandomFreeper

It was the only piece of legislation that could become law. Nothing to be ashamed of here. Of course, extending all tax rates permanently would have been ideal. No such bill passed the Senate.


119 posted on 01/02/2013 8:03:20 AM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: morphing libertarian

you’re a libertarian?

looks like your Ron Paul voted for this marxism(progressive in come tax on the “rich”)


120 posted on 01/02/2013 8:03:26 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: Democrat_media

I am no longer a libertarian. Abortion and weak on Iran drove me out. You can read my page or just figure out what the words mean.

But thanx for playing.

In 4 years we will respond to republicans like we respond to Ron Paul here. More and more freepers see the Moderate Party as not meeting their interests and in fact being detrimental to the country. When you wake up to reality you’ll be ready to jump ship.


121 posted on 01/02/2013 8:08:22 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: indianrightwinger
It was the only piece of legislation that could become law.

Bad law. Sometimes creative inaction is required.

/johnny

122 posted on 01/02/2013 8:08:42 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Yosemitest
PHOTO CORRECTION:
123 posted on 01/02/2013 8:12:31 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: morphing libertarian

I know who my slavers are the news media (democrat party) and the democrat party. the media creates the reality we live in .until people realize that they are not waking up to reality.

for example since the election the media has been creating this fake “fiscal cliff” bs. there was no cliff it was all a scare tactic but everyone was talking about and congressmen voting on it like if it was reality. If you thought this cliff was real then you too were in the matrix


124 posted on 01/02/2013 8:14:40 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: Democrat_media

Not the issue we were discussing. You don’t defend republican actions by telling me how bad the media and the dems are.

Off to work to participate as part of the 53%.

Happy new year. Log live the republicans moderates!!!


125 posted on 01/02/2013 8:19:48 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: entropy12
Just got a call from a customer. My services won't be required this year, thanks for all you've done, yada, yada.

So it begins. Still no pay envelopes going out from this desk on Friday.

/johnny

126 posted on 01/02/2013 8:28:17 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: morphing libertarian

bs , even with the media ‘s fiscall cliff 2/3 of Repulicans in the House voted against this bill. democrats own the presidency , the media , the Senate , and a lot of democrats in the house and you blame all republicans for what democrats did. without democrats this bill would not have passed.

Democrat congresses created 99% of the government we have including medicare and social security. Democrats want to take away your individual rights, right to owning anything , they want the government to own everytyhing and so to be all powerful, you don’t see the threat and all many of you do is blame the GOP as the media wants


127 posted on 01/02/2013 8:33:08 AM PST by Democrat_media (media makes mass shooters household names to create more & take our guns)
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To: entropy12
This bill as passed saved me a ton of money.

Your support is ironic given your tagline.

You got yours. Great. My grandkids will have to pay for it.

128 posted on 01/02/2013 8:33:20 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("Don't be afraid to see what you see." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: sickoflibs; goldstategop; WellyP; Logical me; Fiji Hill; jospehm20; Perdogg

This might not suck as much as we think. There is a thought that that extending the Bush tax cuts for MOST Americans is a good thing - the Dems would of never done it.

Spending cuts need to be done and we did lose there. But I see no reason to beat up ourselves and to try not spin this as win for the Reps.

I mean really, the Dems fell for the Rep play and extended the Bush Tax Cuts on the middle class while Obama raised the payroll tax on the poor as well as all Americans.


129 posted on 01/02/2013 9:20:32 AM PST by mike_9958
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To: Colonel_Flagg

May not be true if you add all the pluses and minuses. You are spared the AMT tax in 2013, your tax on dividends and cap gains do not go up and even better they are now permanent rates, and your estate will not pay 55% death tax over just $1 million in assets. Don’t we all hope to accumulate a nice nest egg and pass it on to our children? Sans this deal ALL OF THOSE TAXES would have gone up on Jan 1, 2013.


130 posted on 01/02/2013 9:25:55 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: mike_9958; sickoflibs; goldstategop; WellyP; Logical me; Fiji Hill; jospehm20; Perdogg
I mean really, the Dems fell for the Rep play and extended the Bush Tax Cuts on the middle class while Obama raised the payroll tax on the poor as well as all Americans.

Needs to be repeated!

131 posted on 01/02/2013 9:30:28 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: entropy12

Interesting take, but I don’t feel that much better knowing that MY payroll taxes go up as well.

I do feel a bit of revenge that the ignoramuses that voted for the moron in the white house will be hit by them, too. A bit.....


132 posted on 01/02/2013 9:53:34 AM PST by LUV W (All my heroes wear camos!)
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To: LUV W

Please note that the payroll tax reduction was a “temporary” thing, pushed for political reasons prior to election.

My honest opinion is that overall the FC bill is good for the middle class who tries to be financially prudent. The spending side was made worse, not better, but hoping GOP will not cave in during the upcoming debt limit debate.

Spending and debt are directly related and relevant. Expiring Bush tax cuts was a bit tangential to spending.


133 posted on 01/02/2013 10:06:02 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: entropy12
The GOP always caves and all of them just love spending, so don't hold your breath on that!

It's not a good bill and we'll never get a good one till we get rid of the E-GOP and replace them ALL with fiscally responsible adults. Or is that an oxymoron for congresspets?!

134 posted on 01/02/2013 10:12:09 AM PST by LUV W (All my heroes wear camos!)
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To: entropy12

I don’t make enough money to have to worry about dividends and capital gains. The economy is too crappy for that. I live check-to-check and have seen my real income decline by approximately 20 percent since Zero took office.

My ‘estate’ as it presently stands is a modest house, two cars, no second property and a family that loves me.

Yet the government sees fit to take even more of my hard-earned, with the almost full agreement of the party I, until recently, supported.


135 posted on 01/02/2013 10:53:12 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("Don't be afraid to see what you see." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: entropy12
All I can say is I hope you will begin to like what Obama (with Republican help) will be doing to you in the next 4 years

Fixed

136 posted on 01/02/2013 11:05:43 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

There is no tax increase for you in this bill. Please note that the 2% reduction in FICA tax was a temporary thing in previous law, was effective for only a short time to act as a temporary stimulus. Now the rate goes back to normal 6.2%. It is not a real tax increase by any standard.

Without this bill your income tax rates would have been higher, since the Bush tax cuts were never permanent and scheduled to expire in 2012.


137 posted on 01/02/2013 11:06:23 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: GeronL

With your help, Obama got elected, GOP lost seats in Senate and House. Keep up the good work /Sarc


138 posted on 01/02/2013 11:12:26 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: entropy12

with my help?

I am calling ABUSE on that offensive statement

Obama was helped by the liberal-moderate Republicans that were nominated more than anything. The lack of a conservative message did more damage than anything. “My name is not Obama” was never a winning strategy.


139 posted on 01/02/2013 11:40:47 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: mike_9958; goldstategop; WellyP; Logical me; Fiji Hill; jospehm20; Perdogg
RE :”This might not suck as much as we think. There is a thought that that extending the Bush tax cuts for MOST Americans is a good thing - the Dems would of never done it.”

They were extended permanently, something Republicans wanted but couldn't do in the 10 years since they originally passed, The two prior passes of them 2003 and 2010 both had expiration dates, and yes, were unpaid for which is part of the reason the first run of them expired in the first place, and the AMT fix too. And some of the spending is temporary.

Republicans had no chance at beating O, or at least many here seeing them as beating him, at this, because they had very scrambled messages.

First it was about blocking tax increases, yet they were not blocking automatically timed tax increases by killing House bills, Jan 1 this became apparent as that was the official day taxes went up.

Then it was about deficits, and about spending. So they opposed passing these tax cuts because of deficits yet opposed any tax increases so were against tax cut extensions?

Rush talks about ‘low information voters’
But what information?? That is why most of us knew the outcome ahead of time.

Lastly, this was only made possible by Bohner putting the bill up for a vote, and they House Rs will vote him back in tomorrow. All the NOs were Kabuki. It was just a show.

140 posted on 01/02/2013 11:42:22 AM PST by sickoflibs (Dems go for results, meaning winning. Rs go for symbolism and whining ,about losing.)
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To: Yosemitest

AWESOME!!


141 posted on 01/02/2013 12:01:31 PM PST by Fledermaus (The Republic is Dead: Collapse the system. Let the Dems destroy the economy!)
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To: sickoflibs; Lancey Howard
There was no painless way of this and as long as Obama is in charge, there has to be some triage. This agreement is reflective of the electorate in the last election. The GOP still can hold the govt to automatic cuts, since the tax issue has been taken off the table, the pressure is back on the WH.
142 posted on 01/02/2013 12:05:53 PM PST by Perdogg (Mark Levin - It's called the Bill of Rights not Bill of Needs)
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To: entropy12

I don’t play those games. My FICA withholding is going up again, which means less money in my pocket. That’s a tax increase. I don’t care if what preceded it was temporary or not. I can’t afford to look at it as anything but a net-effect on my family’s bottom line.

Still, I could swallow that a lot more easily if the Republican Party hadn’t abandoned the idea of trying to get any sort of spending cut in this bill. Instead, CBO scores it as adding to the deficit.

I know, GOP-E will tell me they’ll REALLY fight hard for cuts in the NEXT argument. Just you wait and see, they’ll say.

Let me just say I’ll believe that when I see it, because I haven’t seen it yet. They talk a good game and when the chips are down, they fold their hand. I’m sick of it.

I’m paying now. My grandchildren will pay when they’re born. The government will downsize ... well, never, if ‘leaders’ like John Boehner and Mitch McConnell still pull the strings of the so-called opposition party in Washington.


143 posted on 01/02/2013 12:18:09 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("Don't be afraid to see what you see." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Perdogg; Lancey Howard; mike_9958; goldstategop
RE :”There was no painless way of this and as long as Obama is in charge, there has to be some triage. This agreement is reflective of the electorate in the last election. The GOP still can hold the govt to automatic cuts, since the tax issue has been taken off the table, the pressure is back on the WH.”

The automatic ‘cuts’ once again supports my conclusion that Republicans as a group really don't know what they want, at least not as priorities that could be used to get anything into law esp with a split government.

They don't want ‘to raise taxes’, yet they don't want to pass partial tax cut (extensions) to stop tax increases, and they don't want automatic defense cuts that they themselves passed, but they want deficit reduction.

So given all of those it just settles down to ‘don't pass anything that actually gets into law’ no matter the consequences (those darn low information voters),and that's not a realistic plan, so its really 'don't VOTE for anything that actually gets into law' in practice as we saw the past few weeks.
That is why they will vote against stuff Bohner puts up but none will challenge him as Speaker. You think any of them want demands like that on them?

144 posted on 01/02/2013 12:50:37 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems go for results, meaning winning. Rs go for symbolism and whining ,about losing.)
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To: cherry
Actually it is less than 1/3....

It would be 1/3 if we controlled both the Senate AND the House.

145 posted on 01/02/2013 2:04:09 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: sickoflibs

“They were extended permanently, something Republicans wanted but couldn’t do in the 10 years since they originally passed”

Bingo,

check, check, and checkmate.


146 posted on 01/02/2013 2:45:17 PM PST by mike_9958
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To: Yosemitest

Dan Lundren is nearly out already. Defeated in 11/12 by a liberal democrat.


147 posted on 01/02/2013 4:46:04 PM PST by GVnana
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To: mike_9958
They were extended permanently, something Republicans wanted but couldn’t do in the 10 years since they originally passed” Bingo, check, check, and checkmate.”

There are a few libs whining that O gave up too much with the debt limit and giving up on the $250K figure with the $450K, but for the most part they are pulling together and calling it a victory for him.

They know they have to stick together to beat Rs on this, and they are watching the R party fighting each other and they are having a big laugh over it. The Dems work together as a team.

If Rs want to beat O they should try WINNING elections.

148 posted on 01/02/2013 5:22:10 PM PST by sickoflibs (Dems go for results, meaning winning. Rs go for symbolism and whining ,about losing.)
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To: Democrat_media

I stopped reading when you wrote I blamed “all” republicans. That kind of exaggeration doesn’t deserve much.


149 posted on 01/02/2013 6:07:32 PM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: Colonel_Flagg

I completely agree that spending cuts are essential for the sake of future generations. It is immoral to spend the money now which we do not have and leave the debt to our children and grand children.

Now Obama got his tax increases in this FC bill. We know he won and we also know we lost seats in congress in 2012. We know democraps control 2 out of 3 power bases. But GOP still has majority in the House. If they do not fight for spending cuts during the debt limit fight, I will be jumping in the same fox hole as you.


150 posted on 01/02/2013 6:57:11 PM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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