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28 Dead, Including 20 Children, After Shooting Rampage At Sandy Hook School In Newtown
http://www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-police-responding-to-incident-in-newtown-20121214,0,3969911.story ^ | 12/14/12

Posted on 12/14/2012 7:46:45 AM PST by marthemaria

Edited on 12/14/2012 9:12:15 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

State police are responding to a report of a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dickinson Drive, school officials said.

Police are reporting a number of injured parties. The nature of their injuries is not clear.

There are unconfirmed reports of two shooters one dead, one still at large.


(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: Connecticut
KEYWORDS: adamlanza; arth; banglist; connecticut; connecticutshooting; guncontrol; lanza; mask; maskedman; massshooting; newtown; obama; ryanlanza; sandyhook; sandyhookshooting; schoolshooting; secondamendment; shooting; sourcetitlenoturl
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans

Not necessary. Most of them are not violent...but this ones that are should be institutionalized.we also have violent schizos and other violent mental cases.


1,301 posted on 12/14/2012 5:57:34 PM PST by penelopesire (TIME FOR OBAMA TO ANSWER FOR BENGHAZI UNDER OATH!!)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

I guess that’s why there are so many mass murders at gun ranges.


1,302 posted on 12/14/2012 6:03:07 PM PST by Eaker (Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” — Robert A. Heinlein.)
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans

Unfortunately, “autism” is a catch-all for many different and varying degrees of personality disorders, from the very mild to the very serious.

Lanza looks more like a delusional schizophrenic to me.


1,303 posted on 12/14/2012 6:03:48 PM PST by miserare
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To: Feline_AIDS

Thanks again.


1,304 posted on 12/14/2012 6:11:28 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Eaker

Inside the 9.

Next? The range is hot!


1,305 posted on 12/14/2012 6:14:12 PM PST by glock rocks (Pro Deo et Constitutione - Libertas aut Mors)
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To: miserare; stuck_in_new_orleans

There are many people who have multiple disorders, but if they have a basic, underlying disorder, the “mere” psychological disorder is often neglected. Long ago I worked with retarded adults (that’s what they were called in the 1970s) who had what were referred to as “psychotic overlays.” That is, their basic problem was something organic (retardation), but they had another problem on top of that.

The fact that these problems often emerged later (and gradually) in the individual’s life made them harder to detect, since while the people were already under treatment of one kind or another, it wasn’t for mental illness.

Obviously, a psychotic is a psychotic, but it is sometimes harder to distinguish this in the case of a person who is developmentally disabled, autistic, or one of the other conditions that seem to be organic problems.

However, when these people were all living peacefully in supervised cottages on the grounds of a remote mental hospital, that was much less of a problem. For one thing, they were subjected to much less stress, and for another, treatment for “episodes” was at hand, and they were much less likely to be able to injure others.


1,306 posted on 12/14/2012 6:16:19 PM PST by livius
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To: Borax Queen

***The tears were so fake, ...***

I test my reflexes on the speed with which I can grab the remote when the O appears on my tv, so I didn’t wait around to see tears. I agree with you, they had to be fake, like the famous video clip of Clinton laughing, and then wiping tears as he left the funeral of Ron Brown.

If Obama could not say from his heart the words he used to address the distressed, he could not cry either.

I have no idea who eak3 is, but I ignore ignorant posts.


1,307 posted on 12/14/2012 6:18:02 PM PST by maica
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To: cherry; Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Sounds like the mother enabled the kid instead of dealing with the problem.


1,308 posted on 12/14/2012 6:18:10 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: palmer

The mother probably had no choice. You can’t get a child committed anymore - virtually all the parents of psychotic mass murderers have tried, often just before the kid killed the parents themselves and then went on his rampage.

A lot of times parents find that the only choice is to keep a potentially dangerous child at home or let him join the ranks of the homeless mentally ill on the street. It would probably be better to let the latter happen, but it’s a terrible situation for a parent to be in.


1,309 posted on 12/14/2012 6:21:50 PM PST by livius
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To: miserare

The cowardly animal is angry and mentally ill. Thinks his personal family cause is so bad that only nationwide attention could justify it.

Real tough guy. Kindergarten kids.

What a worthless piece of shit.

If he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory make like Ahnold in Terminator and walk into a police station and pick on grown ups with guns.

Reality is different than Hollywood.


1,310 posted on 12/14/2012 6:22:36 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer to drink a bunch of them. Stay thirsty my FRiends)
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To: livius

Coming from someone in the know..it’s a hopeless situation. My mom has admitted that they’re scared of him & just try to keep him happy by not pissing him off but it’s only a matter of time before something makes my brother snap. My parents aren’t getting any younger & can’t imagine what it will be like when the unfortunate time comes when my parents pass..weird too because my brother totally dotes on my dad but not my mom.


1,311 posted on 12/14/2012 6:27:12 PM PST by rainee (Her)
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To: livius

Interesting info on the kids father.

Peter Lanza, is a vice president at GE Capital and had been a partner at global accounting giant Ernst & Young.


1,312 posted on 12/14/2012 6:32:55 PM PST by Revel
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To: tina07

The brother lives in Hoboken.

Since the killer apparently had his older brother’s ID on him and was, at first, mistakenly identified, it appeared that he was from Hoboken.

Bits and pieces, and it takes a while for them to all come together and get to the truth. Have patience with both police and news folks as they try to get the story straight.

It’s always like this at first, fog of war.


1,313 posted on 12/14/2012 6:34:17 PM PST by Jedidah
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To: livius

It’s true she can’t get him committed, but she could be more careful with the guns. Everyone should have a 2nd amendment right, but people need to respect the responsibilities that come with the right. If their kid is screwed up they need to be extra careful with the key/combo. It may come out that the mother was careful. Or it may be that she wasn’t, or worse.


1,314 posted on 12/14/2012 6:36:47 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: thouworm

Verily, *we may never know*.

Just b/c you are armed [usually* to protect you and your own family]....How many people have taken a *course* in self-defense with a firearm? and are practiced/willing to use that skill?

**”The public is no longer in danger,” said state police Lt. Paul Vance **


1,315 posted on 12/14/2012 6:37:42 PM PST by Daffynition (Self-respect: the secure feeling that no one, as yet, is suspicious. ~ HLM)
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To: Revel

Dad’s money could not buy happiness for Mom and the kid.


1,316 posted on 12/14/2012 6:38:13 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: rainee

Rainee, I hear you and believe you.

I’ve dealt with two mentally-ill family members. No one can know just how difficult this is until they experience it.

Unless the affected person is willing to admit and accept help, it’s almost impossible to intervene. You must essentially prove that the person is a danger in advance of the event, and our system doesn’t work pre-emptively.

My heart is with you. How worried you must be for your mother.


1,317 posted on 12/14/2012 6:40:07 PM PST by Jedidah
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans

A successful and much-praised state program that provides a range of support services each year for up to 75 adults with autism in Connecticut is likely to lose a quarter of its $1.5 million budget.

The State of CtT is so far in debt....programs are being cut at all levels.

http://www.stateofthespectrum.org/pilot%20program%20joe.html


1,318 posted on 12/14/2012 6:40:47 PM PST by Daffynition (Self-respect: the secure feeling that no one, as yet, is suspicious. ~ HLM)
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To: rainee

I know, it’s terrible. I had a mentally ill person in my family who actually did end up living on the streets, until she finally became old and medically frail enough that we were able to get her into a facility (where she lived out the rest of her years clean, cared for and medicated when she needed to be). This, of course, was after she had tried to kill family members, including her own daughter - and she still couldn’t be committed.

And I had a friend whose teenage younger sister simply woke up one morning, announced she wasn’t going to school, and just went crazy. The family spent every dime they had on keeping her in private facilities, but they had no way of making her stay there, and she would just leave and at one point ended up as a prostitute in another state (a not uncommon fate for the female mentally ill) and then finally died at about the age of 35, probably of AIDS.

And then another friend whose brilliant son had a bizarre break at about age 19, spent the next 15 years in and out of hospitals, often threatening to kill either his mother or himself when he was out, and then finally did kill himself.

So, in addition to the people I worked with at the group home, I have known many, many people whose lives have been completely sunk in dealing with a mentally ill person.

There has got to be a better way of handling this, but until we realize that “community based mental health care” is just a way of saying “no mental health care” and that residential care is the only way to save the lives of these people and their families (and their potential victims), we’re not going to make any progress.


1,319 posted on 12/14/2012 6:43:01 PM PST by livius
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To: glock rocks

Some of the posters here know so little about firearms they would show up at a gun fight with a rolled up TV guide.

The funny thing is that they loudly display their ignorance post after post.


1,320 posted on 12/14/2012 6:45:05 PM PST by Eaker (Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” — Robert A. Heinlein.)
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To: penelopesire

Heh. Not in CT.....we have this new early release program....even convicted felons are eligible. You could have killed someone in a robbery...and out with times served. This summer, 2 guys went out on early release, and went out and killed citizens. But we’re all *safe* according to our fearless State Police commander [POS]

So even if this killer was convicted, it might be every possible, he’d be out and about.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/hearing-early-release-prison-program


1,321 posted on 12/14/2012 6:46:24 PM PST by Daffynition (Self-respect: the secure feeling that no one, as yet, is suspicious. ~ HLM)
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To: Revel

The family was probably well off, then, and the kid probably had been having problems for a long time that were beyond the reach even of their ability to pay for treatment.

People always want to rush forward and blame the family, but very often it turns out that they have tried to do everything possible.


1,322 posted on 12/14/2012 6:47:06 PM PST by livius
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To: rainee
anytime I try to bring up anything about my brother getting help

Taking responsibility is the hardest step particularly when you may be seen as "screwing up" your kid. But unfortunately the VA Tech shooter was dumped at the school, the parents did not take responsibility. The first step in responsibility is getting proper help (not just any old help and NOT just drugs).

The odds are extremely low of anyone becoming a mass murderer but there are some relatively simple things that might be done like having second amendment rights annulled. I don't really know how that's done formally but there should be a way.

1,323 posted on 12/14/2012 6:47:36 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: livius

I am not a doctor but some people are just beyond help. That may have been the case with Adam Lanza though we’ll never know now.


1,324 posted on 12/14/2012 6:48:38 PM PST by darkangel82 (I don't have a superiority complex, I'm just better than you.)
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To: palmer

She may have had the guns to protect herself against him.

As for his getting at them, possibly she didn’t keep them safely enough, or possibly he simply knew how to get at them. Very often people who seem totally nuts are very crafty. I’m sure he had planned all this in advance.


1,325 posted on 12/14/2012 6:49:01 PM PST by livius
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To: livius
People always want to rush forward and blame the family

We should not rush but sometimes it's true.

1,326 posted on 12/14/2012 6:51:19 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: palmer

Sounds like you are a writer for Piers Morgan/CNN


1,327 posted on 12/14/2012 6:52:40 PM PST by Daffynition (Self-respect: the secure feeling that no one, as yet, is suspicious. ~ HLM)
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To: livius
She may have had the guns to protect herself against him.

Yes, possible. The circumstances of how they were kept will probably be revealed in time so we can judge it then. Some sort of screwup is possible, an accident or another party who was unaware.

1,328 posted on 12/14/2012 6:53:36 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

No, she doesn’t live on Army posts. She’s just a good old-fashioned civilian. Exceedingly pretty as well; tall, about 6’1”, slender, big green eyes, dark blonde hair, aquiline nose.

Honestly, she could be a model.

However, because of her problems, her relationships are short-lived usually. Her longest was two years, and that was the guy that kicked her out.


1,329 posted on 12/14/2012 6:53:56 PM PST by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: Daffynition

I write whatever I want.


1,330 posted on 12/14/2012 6:54:31 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: livius

Do you think Adam may have been jealous of her students hold on her time and attention?


1,331 posted on 12/14/2012 6:55:25 PM PST by txhurl (Zero on America: Drive it like you stole it)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie; thouworm

It’s true that Israel protects children, tourists, volunteers, etc with armed escorts when they go on a “field trip”. Many of these armed escorts are not necessarily warriors, but if you have three guys or girls with M16s in your group it will at least make someone think twice. The Israeli attitude is all business; “never again”. When our politicians say “never again” they are looking to capitalize on an opportunity. When an Israeli says “never again” it’s very different.


1,332 posted on 12/14/2012 6:57:32 PM PST by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: Daffynition

I feel for you. Maybe you ought to think about getting out of that liberal hellhole. You can come to Texas. Pretty soon we will be the only free state left in this God forsaken country I fear.

Very sad day.


1,333 posted on 12/14/2012 6:58:00 PM PST by penelopesire (TIME FOR OBAMA TO ANSWER FOR BENGHAZI UNDER OATH!!)
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To: penelopesire

has he mentioned how the family has een destryed, how many parents dont even raise their kids now, how they don;t teach kids respect, hard work, and be told it;s OK to be different.?

Nah idiots like him are why we have a bunch of lazy no good nuts walking about.


1,334 posted on 12/14/2012 6:58:15 PM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: txhurl

liberals wanted the family destroyed , have no fathers, women should not stay at home and raise kids , leave it to the schools , day care, nannies etc divorce, bring boys up as pansies and this is what we get


1,335 posted on 12/14/2012 7:00:20 PM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc

He actually did a pretty good job from what I can tell. I barely listened to him but David Limbaugh tweeted that he thought Geraldo actually had a moving tribute.

Have to watch the rerun later.


1,336 posted on 12/14/2012 7:01:00 PM PST by penelopesire (TIME FOR OBAMA TO ANSWER FOR BENGHAZI UNDER OATH!!)
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To: palmer

>> Sounds like the mother enabled the kid instead of dealing with the problem.

Sometimes “professionals” don’t want the liability of dealing with certain problems — a consequence of a hyper-sensitive, litigious society.


1,337 posted on 12/14/2012 7:01:35 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Gene Eric
Sometimes “professionals” don’t want the liability of dealing with certain problems

The real pros are not afraid of a tough case, but the real pros are relatively rare.

1,338 posted on 12/14/2012 7:04:13 PM PST by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: thouworm
"... shot his mother in the face..."

I have a vague memory that victims who are maimed, at the very least, in the face, are victims of a certain kind of killing.

The killing is WAY "personal".

Anybody hear of this type of killing?

1,339 posted on 12/14/2012 7:19:39 PM PST by hummingbird
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To: txhurl

Possibly, but I think it was more just rage and a desire to wipe her out along with anything she valued. Who knows why a crazy person fixates on a particular family member?

Poor mothers! Women psychotics usually focus on a relative (either one of their parents or one of their children) of the same sex, which would mean the mother in the case of a psychotic fixated on a parent. At the same time, male psychotics also often seem to fixate on their mothers.

And in this case, the parents were divorced (having a child with problems of this sort is a real strain on a marriage, leaving aside everything else), and his mother had taken him in, so I guess she was naturally going to be the target, along with everything associated with her.


1,340 posted on 12/14/2012 7:19:39 PM PST by livius
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To: Eaker; Travis McGee; B4Ranch; Pete-R-Bilt; DoughtyOne
Some of the posters here know so little about firearms they would show up at a gun fight with a rolled up TV guide. The funny thing is that they loudly display their ignorance post after post.

Quiz:

(1.) Run ______ a knife. (Bonus point: ____seconds)

(2.) Run ______ a gun.

(3.) Essay: "Cover" Explain:

(4.) Demonstrate: "Tactical Reload" (timed)

(5.) Essay: "Caliber" Explain: (bonus point: ____ you have available at the time)

Nope. No way any trained vet, leo, or idpa type could take on a determined active shooter.

1,341 posted on 12/14/2012 7:31:38 PM PST by glock rocks (Pro Deo et Constitutione - Libertas aut Mors)
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To: livius

Help! I missed a turn somewhere. I thought the father was found shot dead? Did father survive, or was he never shot at all. What about the guy in the woods, in camouflage, who was taken into custody, heard saying “I didn’t do it”? Who was he?

Also, what about the missing girlfriend and missing best friend? I missed when these announcements were altered. Thank you.


1,342 posted on 12/14/2012 7:31:38 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: hummingbird

“The killing is WAY “personal”.”

Yes. I agree. As was choosing his mother’s class, among all other students-—or any other group of people (or just her and himself), for that matter-—to kill.

VERY personal.


1,343 posted on 12/14/2012 7:35:08 PM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: livius

“However, when these people were all living peacefully in supervised cottages on the grounds of a remote mental hospital, that was much less of a problem. For one thing, they were subjected to much less stress, and for another, treatment for “episodes” was at hand, and they were much less likely to be able to injure others.”

I agree 100%. Mental health facilities need to be re-opened. Screw the ACLU et al...Some will ask, “But what about possible abuse of patients?” I would say, “In today’s hyper-regulatd medical environment???...you’ve got to be KIDDING!!!” Perverts etc., are caught and dispatched FAST.


1,344 posted on 12/14/2012 7:39:20 PM PST by Frank_2001
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To: Sender

Most Israeli have some military service, women not in combat, but surely trained to use weapons.

What is most frightening now that this has happened is that it will propel an anti-2nd amendment groundswell.The sheep are frightened.


1,345 posted on 12/14/2012 7:41:38 PM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Go Galt!)
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To: Gene Eric

I would not be too quick to judge this mother or any professionals who have dealt with this murderer. Our society not only does not support parents, but undermines them. Professionals often have more to fear about losing their licenses, jobs and being sued by often the parents or if not them then, the government/community.

times are different than when parents were supported, professionals had respect and mental illness may have moved out of the “insane asylums” butACLU will quickly demand that the patient does not have to take medicine or treatment.


1,346 posted on 12/14/2012 7:46:24 PM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Go Galt!)
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To: RitaOK

Help! I missed a turn somewhere. I thought the father was found shot dead? Did father survive, or was he never shot at all. What about the guy in the woods, in camouflage, who was taken into custody, heard saying “I didn’t do it”? Who was he?

Also, what about the missing girlfriend and missing best friend? I missed when these announcements were altered. Thank you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

This day journalistic malfeasance was on display like I have never seen before.

Can’t answer all of your questions, but I can answer a few:

1) Father was never shot or injured. He is alive and cooperating with FBI, as is the brother Ryan. Neither he nor the shooter’s brother is suspected of any involvement.

2) missing girlfriend and missing best friend? This was first reported by the AP. There has been no mention of it since. I believe it was first reported when press were still thinking Ryan was the shooter, so it makes the report doubly odd.

3) Can’t answer about guy in woods, but apparently he was not involved because no authority is currently suspecting anybody other than the shooter (that we know of).


1,347 posted on 12/14/2012 7:51:09 PM PST by thouworm (.)
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To: thouworm
"As was choosing his mother’s class, among all other students-—or any other group of people (or just her and himself), for that matter-—to kill."

Good expansion of what I was vaguely thinking/recalling.

1,348 posted on 12/14/2012 8:16:02 PM PST by hummingbird
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

Agreed.


1,349 posted on 12/14/2012 8:20:30 PM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: penelopesire

Geraldo? who the hell has time for him? oh i’m sure he’ll let us know which guns need to be banned, much like he said the day after Columbine.

I’ve watched no news today, never do, never will, heard things on WISN radio today briefly....now learning what happened today by reading here on FR.


1,350 posted on 12/14/2012 8:36:39 PM PST by BrianE ("Dead at 25 buried at 65 the average American" - Benjamin Franklin 1776)
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