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Lance Armstrong Cheated to Win. Why is that Wrong?
Reason.com ^ | 17 Nov 2010 | Nick Gillespie

Posted on 11/20/2012 12:11:09 PM PST by Notary Sojac

After months of bad press, the greatest competitive cyclist of all time has officially hit rock bottom: The Lance Armstrong Foundation has dropped the name of its eponymous creator and will now be known as the Livestrong Foundation. Rest easy, Lance, it can’t get much – or is that any? – worse.

His story is unparalleled, Shakespearean in scope and breadth. A cocky, gum-flapping athlete battled insurmountable odds after a devastating cancer diagnosis, his greasy soul barely slipping the surly clutches of a certain dirt nap. Ultimately, he rehabilitated his battered body and morphed into a champion.

Not only did Lance Armstrong improbably return to the sport he loved, professional cycling, he used his unfailing narrative as a stick and beat to death his opponents by winning the most grueling sporting event on the planet of earth: The Tour De France. Seven motherloving times!

He must have had help, right? I mean, you can’t just win the Tour that many times without some aid and angels. Could all the old ladies’ prayers and good wishes really have propelled this flesh rocket up the Pyrenees and down the Alps? If they could, Robert Urich would have more Olympic medals than Michael Phelps and Mark Spitz combined. But he doesn’t. Because he’s dead. Sorry, grandma.

As much as everyone wanted to believe Lance’s performance was the result of clean living and hard training, there were whispers for years that he was dirtier than a bum’s ass. The French cycling daily L’Equipe published a long story in August 2005 accusing him of failing a 1999 drug test by using EPO, or erythropoietin, a blood booster commonly used by cyclists to aid in red blood-cell production. The French said he was a habitual doper who had enough money and support to insulate himself from the rules that sought to protect the sport from enhanced athletes who posed an unfair advantage to non-tainted riders. Lance said he didn’t trust the French testing system, probably because they detected those pesky drugs.

When Armstrong gave up the fight in August 2012 against the U.S. Anti Doping Agency (USADA), people’s love turned to sheer outrage and they took his declaration to fight the charges no more forever as an act of personal betrayal. How could cancer boy have put something in his pure body to get him up those hills faster, to knock over those time trials like Southern damsels fainting from the vapors?

But as backlash gripped Lance fans, there was a deeper question more important than simple outrage: Why are people so mad at Lance Armstrong when logic should have told them the guy was doing nothing short of spiking his veins, spinning his blood, and biting off chicken heads to achieve his inhuman feats?

To put it a little differently: The rules pushed by the USADA and the International Cycling Union (UCI) are so arbitrary and widely flouted that it shouldn’t be a big deal that Lance, like most of his comptetitors, broke the rules. You don’t have to have a doctorate in pharmacology to know Lance cheated, but why is it wrong?

The standard answer is simply: Drugs are bad, m’kay? Now this is the aspect that should make the libertarian in all of us wince. Why are drugs bad? Because they’re bad, that’s why. The circular argument is that putting bad things in your body is dangerous and unfair and thus immoral and dangerous. But plenty of things are dangerous and unfair. How about zooming down one-lane, winding mountain passes with eager teenagers ringing cowbells in your face, otherwise known as a typical stage in the Tour de France? That seems kind of dangerous.

It’s highly unlikely Amaury Sport Organization, the body that organizes the Tour, is going to ban enthusiastic spectation. But if they did, would you be outraged by someone ringing a cowbell simply because it’s now illegal? Cycling is by nature dangerous, especially when it’s done right, because a light, strong rider will be able to propel himself at great speeds, virtually unprotected from collision or calamity should he tumble from his steel steed. Professional cyclists may be idiots, but they’re not your children. Cycling is deadlier than the drugs you can consume to make yourself faster at it, so either way, you’re hastening your own death, or at least flirting with the Grim Reaper like a cheap, Charlie-soaked bar girl.

What about the idea that using drugs is unfair because not everyone uses them equally? In addition to taking performance-enhancing drugs like EPO and testosterone (and paying to cover up positive tests), Lance is accused by the USADA of blood doping. That is essentially harvesting your own oxygen-rich blood cells (or borrowing some from a friendly matching donor - thanks bro!) and later injecting them at a critical point (like before a bike race) to deliver more oxygen to working muscles so they can perform longer and stronger.

Of all the techniques and tools in the cycling arsenal, this one I find totally inoffensive. It’s your blood! If you want to make yourself all sickly and anemic and shiver like a hairless cat when the refrigerated sanguine smoothie glugs back into your body, then have at it. As far as I’m concerned, if drinking your own urine somehow made you faster in a time trial, then bottoms up. It’s gross, and it’s weird, but it’s yours.

If any rider in a UCI-sanctioned race wanted to deliver more oxygen to their working systems by strapping on an oxygen tank like an octogenarian on the nickel slots at the Golden Nugget, they are free to do that, according to the World Doping Agency’s banned list. So you can have an oxygen tank on your back but not in your recycled blood, which only makes the means of transmission problematic. Hey wait a second, that’s not your air! You didn’t breathe that!

Imagine the unfair advantages a multi-millionaire celebrity like Lance Armstrong has over less-wealthy rivals: He can buy the best chefs, nutritionists, masseurs, physical therapists, movement specialists, physiologists, acupuncturists, chakra balancers, and ball tuggers. Lance could have a mountain chateau in Tourmalet, a climate-controlled bungalow in San Sebastian, a compound in Colorado for high-elevation training, and an oxygen-deprivation gym for cross training. He could have gadgets and gizmos to knead his sore calves when the servants retired for the evening, he could sleep in Michale Jackson’s old hyperbaric chamber (Bubbles is lonely!), he could extract the marrow of Heraclitus and spread it on toast points. With all the technology available in nutrition, medicine, components, bike frames, shoes, pointy, goofy-ass racing helmets, and every other element of cycling,everything could be deemed unfair, or unnatural!

Money is an advantage, technology is an advantage, genes are an advantage (or disadvantage, in many cases!). None of it is fair.

Here is a proposal for reform: Why not have two cycling leagues and see which one earns riders the most support from fans and sponsors? Let the market decide! TV ratings for the Tour De France doubled when Lance Armstrong was racing, and even now with wider cable distribution and a larger available audience the numbers were much smaller for the 2012 Tour than they were for Lance’s last victory in 2005. It could be like bodybuilding which has a “natural” non-juiced circuit. You could allow purists their riders who could conquer the great climbs of the world on diets of grass and coconut milk (because animal protein of any kind would be an unfair advantage). Then there would be a circuit for doping, manipulative assholes on another. Who do you think would attract a bigger crowd? A larger audience? More endorsements?

Lance Armstrong is guilty of a lot in the eyes of the UCI and USADA, two groups so profoundly mired in their mutual disdain it’s a miracle they can conjure charges and responses in between bouts of flinging feces at each other. USADA claims Lance paid UCI to cover up at least one positive drug test, and UCI claims USADA’s mama’s so big she straps buses to her feet to go roller skating. It’s that ugly. What is uglier still is the arbitrary nature with which substances and procedures are banned, wasting millions of tax dollars through USADA (which gets funding from the drug czar's office, of all places!) and the failed Department of Justice investigation against Armstrong, which should have never been launched in the first place. Policing sport is not the role of the government.

Remember your outrage and why you detest a guy who was doing the same thing his predecessors had done legally just a few years before, and that all his adversaries were doing concurrently. Save some of your bile to curse the name of Laurent Fignon, the guy who won the tour in 1983 and 1984, the years before blood doping was banned. He admitted to using amphetamines and cortisol, but no one is retroactively calling for him to give back his prize money, mostly because he is dead. Are you as angry with Laurent as you are at Lance? And if you are, how do you feel about Greg LeMond, the first American to win the Tour and a longtime critic of Armstrong? In the 1989 Tour, LeMond beat Fignon by a mere eight seconds(!), partly because LeMond wisely availed himself of all sorts of aerodynamically progressive equipment. Fignon, a Frenchman who disdained innovation that couldn't be shot directly into his ass, even refused to cut his ponytail, causing extra drag and precious lost seconds over the 21-stage race.

What if “science” deems blood-doping and injectables as innocuous (and generally useless) as the creams and supplements they sell at GNC? With falling viewership and global loss of interest in cycling, it’s more than likely that the powers that be will expand the list of accepted drugs and practices. If the day comes when cyclists can finally emerge from the shadows and party-hearty with their testosterone, their EPO, even an ELO mixed tape, make sure you know why you hate Lance Armstrong. It’s not because he made his former teammate and defrocked Tour winner Floyd Landis babysit a mini-fridge full of Lance blood for a long, hot, Austin summer, or because he shrunk his weenis with hormone injections, or had better oxygen-uptake than you.

No, it’s because in the end, Lance refused to admit what was as plain as the saddle sore on your butt after a 115-mile ride: that he cheated to win, and nobody did it better. No man is a hero to his former personal assistant, but Lance Armstrong was an asshole until the very end.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armstrong; cycling; drugs; lance; lancearmstrong; tourdefrance; usada
I'm not endorsing all of what is said here. It does challenge my POV and think it's worth the read.
1 posted on 11/20/2012 12:11:14 PM PST by Notary Sojac
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To: Notary Sojac

As long as they could conduct a test, and make a determination...thus showing proof...I was agreeable to the whole “game”. This current episode with Armstrong revolves around just listening to twenty-odd guys say he doped....but you can’t use a single test to validate what they said.

To me....there’s something wrong here. Why bother with dope-testing anymore? Let’s just let your team-mates identify you as a doper, and that would be enough to toss you out of your sport.

I will say this in my own beliefs...I could see Armstrong winning two races in a row. But statistically, for a guy to keep his body in that form for more than two years? I’m not buying that either.


2 posted on 11/20/2012 12:15:36 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: Notary Sojac

2 words: French jealousy!


3 posted on 11/20/2012 12:17:51 PM PST by getarope (Time for the repubs to grow some balls and STOP the Kenyan in his tracks NOW!)
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To: Notary Sojac

College students today have a saying—if you’re not cheatin’, you’re not tryn’. It seems Lance may be the originator of that little gem.


4 posted on 11/20/2012 12:19:35 PM PST by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: Notary Sojac

It works for Democrats, doesn’t it?


5 posted on 11/20/2012 12:22:00 PM PST by rightwingintelligentsia (Be careful of believing something just because you want it to be true.)
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To: Notary Sojac

If cheating is widespread in a sport, and it is/was in cycling, then by definition the dominant players are cheating.

Nobody is good enough “naturally” to compete with and win against someone almost as naturally good who has his finger on the scale with drugs.


6 posted on 11/20/2012 12:22:09 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Notary Sojac

The biggest problem is that Lance was so scorched earth in his own defense. He crushed a lot of people on his path of insisting he was 100% clean, then it turns out he was the liar the whole time.

On the overall thing, I’ve always felt the doping rules in various sports are kind of silly. There’s so much drive to do them, and the dopers are always so far ahead of the enforcers causing most of the folks to get caught so far later. I guess because most of it is illegal they really can’t have them not against the rules. But by the same token when you look up how many cycling and track “wins” were expunged years later because stored samples finally failed it does make these entire sports seem rather silly. Get to the bottom of this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France
really look at that list of wins that now never happened and explain to me why anybody should pay attention to the results. Who really thinks the 2011 and 2012 “winners” will still be counted as winning 10 years from now? Not me.


7 posted on 11/20/2012 12:22:29 PM PST by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: Notary Sojac

Is eating four eggs every morning for breakfast while training and racing okay? Or should competitive athletes be limited to, say, two eggs at breakfast?

How ‘bout 100 eggs per day?


8 posted on 11/20/2012 12:23:42 PM PST by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: getarope
4 words: You're wrong and silly.
9 posted on 11/20/2012 12:24:03 PM PST by Vision (Obama is king of the "Takers." Don't be a "Taker.")
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To: Notary Sojac

Kill 300 Mexicans and two cops? FINE..! But take a little GH for a stronger swing, and you’ll be blinking under the kleig lights on Capitol Hill FO SHO.

Kill some SEALS and burn a Consulate? Steal and election..? FINE..! But take a little GH to pedal like mad, and they’ll just burn you down.

THINGS ARE NUTS THESE DAYS AND FOLKS CAN’T SEE IT.


10 posted on 11/20/2012 12:24:47 PM PST by gaijin
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To: Notary Sojac

I won’t chalenge your POV if you gas up my GOV! Anyway, This guy should be a comedy writer. I always thought “personal assistants” assisted others because they had no personality of their own. I stand corrected...this guy is pretty awesome and finally gives a realistic aspect to all of this!


11 posted on 11/20/2012 12:25:20 PM PST by gr8eman (Ron Swanson for President!)
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To: Notary Sojac

You’re right. It’s always good to take a step outside of the establishment’s box. If all the media is blabbing the same crap, we might want to step back and apply some independent critical thinking.


12 posted on 11/20/2012 12:25:25 PM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: Notary Sojac

I won’t challenge your POV if you gas up my GOV! Anyway, This guy should be a comedy writer. I always thought “personal assistants” assisted others because they had no personality of their own. I stand corrected...this guy is pretty awesome and finally gives a realistic aspect to all of this!


13 posted on 11/20/2012 12:25:41 PM PST by gr8eman (Ron Swanson for President!)
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To: Notary Sojac
The article is indeed well written, but the author mixes up a few things. I don't think drugs are per se bad and I suspect that the rules about drugs in cycling are arbitrary and stupid. However, early on, Lance Armstrong had a choice. He could have admitted years ago that he and almost every other cyclist used drugs, thereby challenging the industry to change its rules. Yes, he would have sacrificed a great deal by telling the truth, yet tell the truth is what he should have done. Instead, he strenuously denied using drugs and those lies helped propel him to international fame and fortune. Yes, his foundation has done a great deal of good, but he also has become rich. Besides, the ends don't justify the means. The rules may have been stupid, but Armstrong effectively endorsed those stupid rules when he for years swore he has adhered to them. Now that he has been exposed as a liar, his supporters point out the stupidity of the rules as a reason not to condemn Armstrong. Sorry, I am not buying it. Lance Armstrong is a great athlete, but he is a bad human being.
14 posted on 11/20/2012 12:27:58 PM PST by utahagen
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To: Notary Sojac

It all boils down to ‘he said-she said’ and no evidence one way or another, on either continent........


15 posted on 11/20/2012 12:30:05 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Red Badger
Nope. You're not familiar with this. Armstrong is guilty as hell and there's all the evidence in the world.
17 posted on 11/20/2012 12:35:07 PM PST by Vision (Obama is king of the "Takers." Don't be a "Taker.")
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To: Red Badger

“It all boils down to ‘he said-she said’ and no evidence one way or another, on either continent........”

Same as the first OJ trial, right?


18 posted on 11/20/2012 12:37:31 PM PST by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: Vision

Was there ever any real scientific test done by an objective third party to prove his guilt?..........


19 posted on 11/20/2012 12:37:35 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: treetopsandroofs

The prosecution had scientific test data. The jury was as ignorant, stupid and biased as an Obama voter......


20 posted on 11/20/2012 12:39:38 PM PST by Red Badger (Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama just got them ALL back......................)
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To: Notary Sojac

Lance should never had himself photographed with Geroge Bush on a bike ride. Big mistake!


21 posted on 11/20/2012 12:39:38 PM PST by classified
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To: Notary Sojac

Did anyone seriously believe that Lance Armstrong could recover from cancer and get back into competition shape without some performance enhancing drugs? I don’t think that anyone would be dumb enough to believe that was possible. Frankly, with or without the performance enhancing drugs, I give Armstrong an awful lot of credit for his accomplishments of beating cancer and returning to competition.


22 posted on 11/20/2012 12:39:49 PM PST by Eva
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To: Notary Sojac
I don't care.

Rules against performance enhancers are idiotic. No one wants to see some seedy looking grain-eater pushing their yogurt fueled ass up a mountain in lackadaisical time spans.

No. We want to see the inhuman. We want that experience pushed to the edge and beyond and to have someone come back and tell us what it was like...

Striving to be more than human is older than Herakles.

Set up a parallel line of sports for those willing to push their bodies to destruction for glory and fame. Mere-humes can compete against other Mere-humes. Morethans can compete against Morethans... It'd be interesting to see which one garners more viewership and ad revenue.

23 posted on 11/20/2012 12:48:18 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Red Badger

The biking commission or whatever they’re called in accordance with their own rules and regulations ruled against Armstrong.

Just as we’re supposed to accept and respect the ruling of the OJ jury, no matter how ignorant and stupid they were, shouldn’t we accept and respect the biking commission’s ruling?


24 posted on 11/20/2012 12:48:50 PM PST by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: Red Badger

I can’t answer about a third party, but he’s been busted a few times.

If you’re interested in Armstrong, confused, and want to get to the bottom of it, read Hamilton’s book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Race-Cover-ups-Winning/dp/0345530411/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353444271&sr=8-1&keywords=secret+race


25 posted on 11/20/2012 12:49:15 PM PST by Vision (Obama is king of the "Takers." Don't be a "Taker.")
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To: getarope

The most damning evidence was collected, and published, by Americans. So we remain superior to the French, in that regard.


26 posted on 11/20/2012 12:55:08 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Vision

“Nope. You’re not familiar with this. Armstrong is guilty as hell and there’s all the evidence in the world.”

I got the impression that he was above repproach for years because he was some sort of “American Hero”, but now that Heil Hussein declared war on America, he had to go.

Nevertheless, for people to proclaim Armstrong’s innocence because no one ever found a syringe or a positive test result would be like expecting that a murderer can’t be convicted of a murder if the body was never found.


27 posted on 11/20/2012 12:56:37 PM PST by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: treetopsandroofs

“Just as we’re supposed to accept and respect the ruling of the OJ jury, no matter how ignorant and stupid they were, shouldn’t we accept and respect the biking commission’s ruling?”

Apparently the answer is “NO” for those who really, REALLY want to believe.

How little many of us differ from leftist Hussein Head Commie freaks....


28 posted on 11/20/2012 1:03:46 PM PST by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: Notary Sojac
...there were whispers for years that he was dirtier than a bum’s ass.

...and not a word about the cyclists who racked up more individual stage wins in almost all of Armstrong's TDF wins...

In fact, despite all of Armstrong's TDF appearances and wins, he's not even in the top 25 of individual stage winners.

This was a government financed witch hunt and the government finally won......

Who's he next target?

29 posted on 11/20/2012 1:07:22 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Notary Sojac

My nomination for the shortest list in the world:

1. Tour de France cyclists who never doped.


30 posted on 11/20/2012 1:22:31 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: Vision
Armstrong is guilty as hell

And who else in the top 10 riders during that time frame were guilty also but were never invesigated by our government?

Or is this just a domestic issue?

31 posted on 11/20/2012 1:25:26 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: utahagen
He could have admitted years ago that he and almost every other cyclist used drugs,

Correction needed, he has never admitted to using drugs......

If you wish to examine Armstrong's record, then how many of the top 20 stage winners of the TDF (of which Armstrong was not a member of) were given the same government scrutiny?

32 posted on 11/20/2012 1:32:19 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Hot Tabasco
Oh, this is a European centric issue; doping is huge there and at times rarely enforced. To be competitive clean American riders had to dope to keep their bodies from breaking down.

If you list the 10 ten I can tell you. In terms of American riders Hincapie is self adamantly guiltily.
33 posted on 11/20/2012 1:37:13 PM PST by Vision (Obama is king of the "Takers." Don't be a "Taker.")
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To: Hot Tabasco

Pols cheat the public everyday.


34 posted on 11/20/2012 1:38:22 PM PST by ully2
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To: Eva
Did anyone seriously believe that Lance Armstrong could recover from cancer and get back into competition shape without some performance enhancing drugs?

Was Armstrong really the drug induced superman you are making him out to be? If so, then please tell me how he was only able to accumulate between only one and three stage wins during each TDF while numerous Europeans scored more........

35 posted on 11/20/2012 1:40:50 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Winning at all after cancer is winning big.


36 posted on 11/20/2012 1:54:25 PM PST by Eva
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To: SeaHawkFan

My nomination for the shortest list in the world:

1. Tour de France cyclists who never doped.


So true. The problem the tour had with the stripping of lances titles is that the runners up in most years had been convicted of drugs usage....

Sad state for a sport that demands the ultimate in endurance/tactics/guts....

To ride 2000+miles over a course of weeks, with mountains, time trials thrown
in is daunting.

If you have ever ridden 50 miles at a leisurely pace you know of what I speak....

Not condoning doping etc.... just respecting the challenge they face


37 posted on 11/20/2012 1:55:57 PM PST by patriotspride
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To: Notary Sojac

I think that the events of this last election, i.e., the extreme fraud by the democrats, has lowered the bar for any type of cheating. If Obama gets the big prize as the result of cheating, why not Lance? At least he has some redeeming social value via his work with cancer. Obama has never done anything for anyone except his own little blue-lipped self.

(Not condoning Lance; just making a point as devil’s advocate.)


38 posted on 11/20/2012 2:04:55 PM PST by MayflowerMadam
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To: patriotspride

The deliberate government driven destruction of Armstrong does more to harm the charities that he has supported and that have endorsed him than will ever do to make the sport of cycling drug free.........


39 posted on 11/20/2012 2:09:30 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Notary Sojac

Who cares how fast some guy can ride a bicycle? You want them to quit cheating? Quit watching. You don’t see a lot of cheating where there’s no money involved. I can watch the neighbor kid ride his bike. If you like watching cheaters, well, then, that’s different than watching bicycle racing. Then you reward the cheaters. Ohhh........


40 posted on 11/20/2012 2:31:39 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: blueunicorn6
You want them to quit cheating? Quit watching.

What's there to watch? Cycling is a spectator event that is huge in Europe where doping got it's start and the only cycling event that's televised here in the U.S. is the TDF and that only draws interest here when an American team is in contention.

Had it not been for LeMond and Armstrong, it's unlikely that ESPN would even be televising it..............

Armstrong has done more for the U.S. cycling industry and his respective charities than any politician could ever hope to achieve. To have a government sponsored entity launch this all assault effort to destroy him is a travesty.............

41 posted on 11/20/2012 2:48:37 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Notary Sojac

Question: If a huge percentage of the best competitors are cheating, over many years, and the event owners and sanctioning and enforcement authorities let it go, again over many years, is it, or any particular act of breaking the rules, really cheating? For practical purposes, I’d have to say it might as well not be.

The L’Equipe article in particular ought to tick you off. Not because their reporters are a bunch of bitter Frenchmen, well, at any rate not just because of that, but because L’Equipe and the Tour are owned by the same company. L’Equipe is a Groupe Amaury paper. Amaury Sport, the owner and organizer of the Tour, as you might have deduced from the name, is also part of Groupe Amaury. You know the prize money Lance got? That’s their money. You’d think they’d have a vested interest in not paying their money to cheats, in finding the cheats and punishing them before, not after, the cheats win seven Tours in a row and win lots of money, and Groupe Amaury makes even more money covering the winning streak. Is Lance a cheat? Yeah. The problem is, pretty much everybody else in the sport including the guys running the events, enforcing the rules, and gathering the news, are crooks.


42 posted on 11/20/2012 3:01:36 PM PST by RichInOC (Palin 2016: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: Hot Tabasco
I don't really feel sorry for Lance; but I do feel sorry for the millions of people that he inspired. Who are they going to look to now? Obama? I am not sure that using a quasi government agency and a lot of tax dollars to bring him down was appropriate. His career was basically over anyway; the only ones really benefiting are all of those people who wanted revenge after he trampled on them on his way to the top.
43 posted on 11/20/2012 3:04:43 PM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: fireman15
people who wanted revenge after he trampled on them on his way to the top.

Who were "those" people?

44 posted on 11/20/2012 3:22:27 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: treetopsandroofs
Don't forget the people who flood these threads thinking that the government went after Armstrong, because the USADA has "US" in its name. Kool-Aid drinkers, all.
45 posted on 11/20/2012 3:43:12 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: gaijin

AMEN!

i’m against doping in sports, but our Congress critters have no interest in the serious issues that we are experiencing in this country. they want a little show now and then to make people think that they are doing something, but turn a blind eye to what’s most important.

where are the leaders this great country once had? “gone to graveyard everyone, when will we ever learn, when will we ever learn.”


46 posted on 11/20/2012 4:08:00 PM PST by IWONDR
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To: pepsionice

I participated in a sport for years involving horses which meant that a urine test for banned substances could be taken on my horse at any place or time during or immediately after the competition. I had 2 tests collected in those years. No problem.

I need someone to explain to me how Lance could undergo over 500 tests, sometimes EVERY day & not ever get a positive result.

That doesn’t make any logical sense to me.

If we can send a rover to Mars, can we NOT collect & properly test a person for doping?

I am inclined to think that he has been totally railroaded.


47 posted on 11/20/2012 4:18:41 PM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: Hot Tabasco
Who were “those” people?

It has never been a secret that Lance has treated a lot of those who have helped him the most... badly. His downfall is a result of the USADA being able to get many of his former closest allies to turn against him. "Those" people are Lance's former friends... he was able to beat the drug testing system, but being nasty eventually brought him down.

48 posted on 11/20/2012 8:40:25 PM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Hot Tabasco
OK, so it doesn't matter if Armstrong lied since other people also used drugs but weren't asked about it? That's a child's argument. Armstrong is a liar. He profited from lying, bullied others into lying for him, and played the martyr as the evidence piled up.

I'm not surprised Armstrong is an atheist; he seems to think he himself is a god.

49 posted on 11/21/2012 4:39:50 AM PST by utahagen
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To: Notary Sojac

You may like this discussion:

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2012/08/roger_noll_on_t.html

Roger Noll of Stanford University talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the economics of sports. Noll discusses the economic effects of stadium subsidies, the labor market for athletes, the business side of college sports, competitive balance in sports leagues, safety in sports, performance-enhancing drugs, and how the role of sports in the lives of children has changed.


50 posted on 11/21/2012 9:10:31 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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