Skip to comments.Dobson: Where have GOP values gone? [GOP was AWOL on conservative values]
Posted on 11/17/2012 12:24:28 PM PST by fwdude
The 2012 election was an open door for the GOP to lead America back to its roots in faith and morality, and the Republicans were AWOL, says Dr. James Dobson, founder of Family Talk and a brand new political outreach arm called Family Talk Action.
I waited throughout the campaign for Mitt Romney to declare himself, to at least identify with the moral issues that are before us. He would not touch them, Dobson said on a two-part radio program in which Penny Nance, head of Concerned Women for America, joined.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Believe as you wish, I have no problem with that.
But your comments about and to those you disagree with reveal a nasty and judgmental character. You aren’t going to persuade anyone with your attitude. You will be dismissed as an arbitrary and contemptuous crank convinced of your own rectitude.
When I used to teach elementary school, from the first day I went over the rules for the classroom. We discussed each rule, why it was a good rule and what the consequences would be for breaking the rule. Every class had the few who would challenge my authority, but I showed them that I meant what I said, and there were no second chances - the punishment was meted out as we discussed. It wasn't paddling, BTW. I would usually have to be hard on them for about two weeks - not letting any slip by - but that was all it took. They knew the rules and knew I would enforce them fairly. The rest of the year went smoothly and I rarely had discipline problems. All the other teachers would ask me how I got my class to be so well-behaved.
I think what children today are missing out on because of the need for both parents to work to support the family is that they end up being raised by their teachers or other caregivers who do not have the experience, education or temperament - much less the authority - to train each child up in the ways best suited to each one. They have to go with a one-size-fits-all strategy and it's why we have so much of a problem in public schools. I taught in a private Christian school - they couldn't pay me enough to teach in public ones today! If kids do not learn respect for authority at home, they will seldom learn it anywhere else.
>> “...he is a psychologist, first, which is about as respectable as an actor in a traveling troupe” <<
This is one of those times where I have to agree with you fully. Jungian psychology is about as anti-biblical as you can get. It totally denies the spirit nature of men, making all things secular in nature.
My suspicion is that Dobson is not saved, or he would know better.
A dog that bares it teeth to me is going to get walloped. He’s going to wish Thor would come and strike him down with his hammer.
In addition to dogs, I’ve got horses. A horse who threatened to bite or kick me will wish it had never been born.
Guess I’m just a horrible person...
Oh, and I DID spank my kids, none of whom is anti-social, addicted, or a bully.
Public schools keep churning out generation after generation of good little marxists...
>> “ But he was also a man with some steel behind his tears, and who contended against pornographers and liberal establishment, and alerted and mobilized us to action.” <<
Dobson is a Moralist, like most Freemasons are, but moralism is not Christian in nature, but humanist/secularist.
“Oh yeah, what your dad did? How about going with you and reading you a bedtime story, wouldnt that have been nicer than spanking you back up the stairs?”
WOW! You really ARE clueless, aren’t you!
Yes, I like your approach
I felt horrible about it every time (maybe about 10 X) that I did it. I don’t like it, and that doesn’t make me a hypocrite. I smoked cigarettes while in college, don’t now, don’t recommend it and that doesn’t make me a hypocrite either.
well she may have craved some attention since she was one of five and you know how kids are, if they crave attention they will take positive or settle for negative. He could have got her quieted down, but obviously you and I have different approaches. I don’t think it was a safety issue, like a horse being aggressive.
wow, didn’t know the guy was a Freemason
Well, you know what?
My parents set the guidelines and I KNEW they would be enforced and I KNEW how.
If I chose to disobey, the consequences were MY choice. I never felt they were being mean, or unfair, of unkind, or whatever else you wish to charge them with when they followed through. I knew it was my own stupid fault for challenging them.
The only times I resented discipline, and not just spankings but ANY kind of discipline, was when I didn’t do it and they either wouldn’t listen to me or believe me.
Other than that, I got what I was fairly warned was coming.
Kids aren’t stupid. They can tell the difference. Discipline, even spankings, aren’t resented when they are deserved. And there were times I’d have RATHER had the spanking over other forms of discipline.
Homosexuality the Boy Scouts and the military and removing abortion from the republican party platform are mere ‘cherry picking’ issues, and “state” issues?
The United States military, the national Boy Scouts, and the national Republican Party, and you want to let the states force local rules onto them?
“”Same with the Boy Scouts - he said the organization should make the call; not the Federal government.””
Really? The Boy Scouts don’t want to be forced to have homosexual leaders, Mitt wants them to become homosexualized, just like he supports the entire homosexual agenda.
That is a revelation, either of James Dobson, or what some people are willing to believe based on dubious sources: do you have some actual documentation that he is a Mason?
Masonry is definitely not Christian, yet one is not a mere moralist because they preach Christian morality as part of the Christian message, and Dobson’s affirmation of the evangelical gospel made quite manifest over many years.
Focus on the Family yet states its mission is “disseminating the Gospel of Jesus Christ to as many people as possible,” and its Statement of Faith if definitely Christian, not Masonic. (http://www.ministrywatch.com/profile/focus-on-the-family.aspx)
And while he was somewhat too ecumenical at times with Catholics, he regularly would air evangelical testimonies and invite souls to conversion.
Yes, they have their faults, but it seems some are preoccupied with looking for and magnifying them,and lack a balanced view.
That’s a wrong generality too. Science is a neutral thing; it is the study of empiricisms. It is the use to which the knowledge thereby gained is put, that is either evil or good.
I officially ride the fence, how’s that for an emphatic maybe. Here’s what I said once I learned about what she was doing.
Well, quite frankly I hadnt heard your own story and I can understand the concern of the monsters.
If God is truly moving you to total nonviolence then God will also bless it. BUT I think its too easy to paint others somewhat different styles as monstrous. The touchstone of balance in chastising children is Ephesians 6:4 fathers, do not exasperate (or provoke to rage) your children, lest they lose heart. The idea is not to get them to fear YOU personally, but to fear your specific displeasure at their misbehavior, if sweet reason is not enough to reach them. If the reaction is to burst into blind rage then you may have overdone it and you should moderate.
So I thoroughly ride the fence on this one.
How something is intended and how it’s taken are different affairs.
Spanking is necessary sometimes, but is not the only answer all the time. It’s not a one size fits all solution.
Sometimes it’s a last resort, sometimes other discipline works better. It varies from child to child, and even from situation to situation and age to age with the same child.
Too bad that those who do use spanking when necessary are broad brushed as using only it all the time without restraint, thus portraying us as essentially child abusers. Especially when we are compared to them. It’s not hard to miss the implication.
Science is the study of the material world; what is objectively observable, measurable and testable. The mind is none of these things.
You make the fatal error of assuming that psychology is science. It is not. If anything, it is a religion.
You make the fatal error of ignorance. Minds and their workings CAN be at least crudely charted.
Sure, psychologists have gotten cult followings but that happens when and because they are abusing their role as scientists.
Again, please explain how mind is empirically observable, measurable and testable.
Do you somehow make a living in the field of psychology? If so, your defensiveness is understandable.
I ONLY support individual candidates who unapologetically champion whole conservatism and who have a proven track record of staunch conservatism; most of whom identify as Republican.
A candidate can identify as Republican without adopting the pernicious value system of the party establishment. That's all I'm saying.
But, I wonder which group will prevail?
Man, you both assume and project much. I do not make any living out of anything even slightly psychologically related.
You are however glaringly unaware that prior to the appearance of Sigmund Freud there was an older line of, yes, Christian psychology. Dr. Freud literally hijacked that and secularized it, which is the basis of the travesty we see all too often today. There was also a respected line of medicine called “alienism” — not the study of space aliens, silly, but of understanding the mentally ill, with the purpose of counseling them towards better normalcy or at least better coping. It’s now known as “abnormal psychology.” And to have an abnormal, you need to have a normal. From which the following applies.
As with navigating geography, one does not need a perfect map in order to be useful. And yes, personalities and minds both normal and abnormal have been mapped, to useful purpose.
If it were up to you we’d still be chaining the insane.
The way I saw the discussion was the you were coming at me with practical reasoning and I was responding with ideological reasoning.
I fully understand that we share much more in common than not. The underlying fact remains the same for both of us - the GOP-E has lost its way and no longer represents its conservative base, nor does it care. To that end, we need to stop any and all donations to the RNC and send them to a quick death so that the Tea Party can step up.
And, yes, I do undertsnad that we agree on these things, albeit from slightly different directions. The end result is that we will both arrive at the same destination.
Thanks for a good discussion.
T.A. McMahon encapsulates this issue almost perfectly in his recent article The Upcoming Psychologized Generation (The Berean Call Newsletter, November 2012):
...[Christians] contradict their professing belief in biblical authority by looking elsewhere for solutions to solving lifes problems, primarily by turning to so-called authorities or expertsand particularly to psychologists. This is a tragic mistake because Gods Word is sufficient: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue (2 Peter:1:3). The Word of God is the Manufacturers Handbook, with instructions for humanity regarding all things that pertain to life and godliness. What exactly are the all things? Certainly everything that pertains to or involves moral issues and anything that is sin relatedeither how to avoid it or how to repent of it. Clinical psychology cannot deal with sinalthough most if not all of the issues for which people turn to psychotherapists are due to sin. The outcome of seeking psychotherapeutic help is always destructive for the faith of the believer for what should be obvious reasons.
Psychological counseling is an anti-biblical replacement program for the Manufacturers Handbook. Its essential doctrine is that self, which is declared to be innately good, is the key to solving all of lifes problems. Therefore, foundationally, it stands in direct opposition to the Scriptures, which declare that self, i.e., man, is innately sinful (Jeremiah:17:9).
Your desperate defense of clinical psychology is a tragic example of how ingrained this false "science" has become in the modern mind, even in Christian thought.
You err greatly to aver, with ad-hominem attacks packed in (”desperate”), that there can be no practice of clinical psychology that walks hand in hand with a classical Christian understanding of sin and righteousness. You err extremely greatly. But the people who practice in this manner, pay the likes of you no mind, other than to pray daily for you.
You have set up a straw man and masterfully bashed it. In the meantime, people who suffer from mental illness and were not healed by a traditional church format by bigots such as you, have been helped to better sanity by the application of psychological Christian understanding that, in fact, predated Sigmund Freud.
You belong at DU, Troll. You speak the language.
Ah, now the ad hominems begin flowing from you. Where is that vaunted grace?
I say bigoted with a very accurate dictionary definition, and bigots carry out what is bigoted, just as murderers carry out murders.
The ad hominem attack is wantonly using the meaningless leftist term of derision “bigot” improperly in an attempt to denigrate another.
Where, in anything that I posted, is “bigot” even remotely appropriate?