Department of Defense setting up free, emergency gas stations in NYC metro area

NY Post ^ | 11/3/12 | AP

[jimbo123]

Gov. Cuomo says the Department of Defense will set up emergency mobile fuel stations at five locations around the New York City metro area.

Free gasoline will be distributed, with a 10-gallon per-person limit, Cuomo announced at a briefing today.

[Eva]

Was the gas station owner a natural citizen?

[kearnyirish2]

“Even if only ten percent of them drive, that’s 800,000 people trying to jump on five fueling points.”

Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness; it is surreal here. I don’t know what else they can do; the situation is mounting because now people who had to use their gas (for driving or generators) are being joined by people who thought they could get through it now looking for their first gas since the storm hit (again, for driving or generators). The dropping temperatures will put even more of a strain on generators, and there may be snow early next week.

[kearnyirish2]

The surge definitely reached further inland along the shore; the problem we had further north seems to be that is reached far enough to reach some generating stations in low-lying industrial areas (which were then turned off to minimize damage). Also, some highways were so close to sea-level that even heavy rains alone could flood them.

[kearnyirish2]

Oh please; we brought the concept of shoes and toothbrushes to the Carolinas...

(Just kidding; I hate myself for being from NJ.)

I remember a Utah politician warning western states about taking in the Katrina refugees; he was publicly shredded for it, but has since been vindicated by the crime rate in Houston and other areas that took them in.

[WVKayaker]

... but this is a disaster that dwarfs Katrina

So what! This move is just another photo op for Zero and those millions of free gallons are like pissing into that wind! This is a desperation move, ONLY!

I am praying for all involved, but they are just Americans caught in a storm. Having been through hurricanes most of my life my first was Hazel in 1954, when we lived in Wilmington, NC), I know when to fold and get out of town. BUT, the people who CHOOSE TO live next to the sea get the sea, whenever it storms. Frequency of those storms may be lower up north, but it ain't the first, nor will it be the last! This just further illustrates that too many folk depend on others for help!

Do you think this would have happened in a Red state? This just further illustrates that too many folk depend on others for help!

If so, I have a bridge to sell!

[9YearLurker]

I get the emergency gas station bit, what I don’t understand is the ‘free’ part.

[kearnyirish2]

“Was the gas station owner a natural citizen?”

In northern NJ? Seriously? (just kidding)

No, he wasn’t (though there are a few around, including the last station in the area that still had free air). What normally happens is someone from the Indian subcontinent buys a station, then either converts the mechanic bays to a convenience store or hires Americans as mechanics (some do a hybrid).

He was simply doing exactly what they would do back in southern Asia...

[dirtboy]

Yeah, a few thousand people will get gas out of this - of of how many hundreds of thousands who need it. One would think this scenario would have been wargamed long ago by disaster planners. Sandy gave nearly a week of warning. And now we see that FEMA is out of bottled water in the region and won't have any more until Monday.

Bottled water. They should have been positioning massive quantities of bottled water a week ago when it became over 50 percent certain that Sandy was going to make landfall.

[GeronL]

I also had that same question

BTW- wouldn’t it be easier to deliver generators to the gas stations?

[9YearLurker]

I’d think so—or else take the gas to those stations that have power, sell it to them, and let them distribute it. Somehow I don’t think that would present the “Obama’s FEMA really cares” name recognition that Barry will be looking for through Tuesday.

[kearnyirish2]

As someone posted on another thread, this is the first hurricane to strike the NJ mainland since 1903 (the other storms have weakened by the time they get here, including Irene last year). Many of these people live here becasue that is where the jobs are; most aren’t living in seaside resorts. While your criticism of reliance is warranted, it is part of the human condition (worse in some than others); I don’t sympathize with those who ignored evacuation orders (though they had justified fears that their properties would be looted), but I believe the evacuation orders should have been more widespread.

Again, I’m not whining; we’re OK (even if we could use our gas without concern as to when we would fill up again, most places are still closed - the illusion of normalcy returning is just that - an illusion). I expect schools and many workplaces will still be closed come Monday (and Tuesday, and Wednesday, ...).

[struggle]

Remember that crowd riot scene from “Soylent Green”? Yeah, that times 100.

[kearnyirish2]

Yeah, I don’t like that aspect of it, either. Originally many of the first stations selling would only take cash (I don’t think they could process other payments); I think that has been addressed now (I was asked how I wanted to pay). I think the people should be buying it, even if they are mini-loans to do so; the government should be undercutting the private sector here, and never did anyone favors by giving things away for “free” (see diabetes epidemic in our welfare class).

[kearnyirish2]

Correction: the government SHOULDN’T be undercutting the private sector (with the “free” gas).

[GeronL]

All they have to do is allow the price to increase locally to the point where private gas companies start trucking it in themselves. They will have more gas than they can handle.

There is also no good reason for the military to set up their own gas stations to compete with private stations. Let them have a generator and it’s done.

[GeronL]

I don’t like the idea of the military competing with private gas stations. Be easier to give (lease) generators to the private stations and be done with it.

[kearnyirish2]

“They should have been positioning massive quantities of bottled water a week ago when it became over 50 percent certain that Sandy was going to make landfall.”

They probably had it set aside for the marathon, and put it aside for next year (it should “keep”). Maybe the mayor thought the gallon jugs were too big...

If a few thousand people get fuel from this, then it helps that much more; I don’t think you understand the scale of this. Have you seen the people pushing vehicles up to the pumps?

We had adequate warning (even when the path of the storm became more clear), but there is still no way to adequately prepare an area with so many people for this without drastic steps. I believe the government is trying to get things back to normal so people can work, etc., but they’d probably do more good by simply suspending driving altogether (which would make it difficult to shop, impossible to get to wrok, etc.), but if schools are closed anyway the impact wouldn’t be so bad.

I don’t have all of the answers; I was as prepared as possible, and have no “wish list” of things I didn’t set aside except a second home in another state(I’m a closet prepper who loves backpacking). The simple truth is that is logistically impossible to stock up on mass gasoline supplies (and probably illegal beyond a certain point in terms of nearby structures and safety issues), and gasoline does break down chemically - you don’t just sock it away for years like Civil Defense crackers.

[kearnyirish2]

The private gas companies are having a lot of problems getting it here; this isn’t happening on a land mass, but on islands (Manhattan, Long Island, Staten Island, NJ’s barrier islands) connected by bridges, tunnels, and roads with varying degrees of damage and congestion.

I agree they shouldn’t be competing with the private stations, but right now in NJ the government (police) is the only thing keeping order at the open gas stations. It isn’t hard to see it is for a “common good”.

[dirtboy]

There are all kinds of factors beyond the disaster itself impacting here. First of all, NJ and NY have anti-gouging laws. If the price of gas increased to seven dollars a gallon, companies would have even more incentive to divert tankers from other parts of the country. Right now, they would eat the cost of shipping it to sell it at the same price they can get in their own state, which is a strong disincentive.

Also, NJ does not allow self-serve. I've read accounts of where a station opened but was not fully staffed, increasing wait times.

But beyond those factors, you could deploy generators to gas stations without power so they can pump gas. Instead, Geraldo is looking for a generator so the fish in his koi pond don't freeze.

This should have been wargamed and a logistical plan worked out for emergency distribution of fuel. It isn't just nature at work here.

[kearnyirish2]

There are definitely shortcomings, and lessons not learned.

The same people that complain about anti-gouging laws (which allow price increases, with limits) don’t seem to have a problem with the fact that government employees (cops) are the only thing stopping the mob from taking the fuel they need. I don’t support the “self-serve only” laws, but a disaster is not the time to have people start handling their own gas - they literally don’t know how to; maybe this will serve as motivation to allow self-serve when this is resolved.

You’re right that this should have been wargamed (especially after 9/11 and Hurricane Irene). I don’t think any contingency plan exists for such a large, concentrated population.