Skip to comments.Top AFRICOM Leader General Carter Ham Was Never Ordered to Save US Men in Benghazi
Posted on 10/29/2012 5:22:46 AM PDT by nuconvert
Rep. Chaffetz: ..."in my meeting with Gen. Ham, I asked very specifically, "did we have resources in the area?" the asnswer is "Yes", "Did we have proximity?", the answer is "Yes". And asked why we didn't send in some of those assets, the General said he was not requested to do so."
"Was he directed by the President or the Sec'ty of Defence, he said "No""
Former Asst. Secretary of Defense Bing West talked with CNBC’s Larry Kudlow about the Libya attacks. “There are tapes of everything that happened,” he said, “and sooner or later it’s going to come out.”
Then who directed General Ham to not deploy those assets?
I believe that turned out to be a rumor.
Does anyone at his level or below have the authority to act?
It appears the Soetoro Regime is planning on airing a docu-mento-fiction movie about Bath-House Barry’s so-called leadership during the raid on UBL. I hope someone can patch together the real story of the murder of the 4 Americans in Benghazi and air it right after the Regime’s story...maybe FOX News can amp up their coverage so far and add in the leaks that are now out.
This Administration claims it never ordered help NOT to be sent. These are weasel words. Ignoring a call for help is no different than a refusal to help whether it be an explicit written order or not.
Assistance denied is assistance refused. It’s as simple as that.
Imagine the frustration asking the White House for permission to respond to the attack...or a least stage men, material and assets. I imagine Obama insists on speaking through a parrot, so his name will never appear on a transcript.
=> Put that skinny punk communist on the mic!
Something to that effect might have gotten Ham canned -no pun intended.
The information I heard today was that General Ham as head of Africom received the same e-mails the White House received requesting help/support as the attack was taking place. General Ham immediately had a rapid response unit ready and communicated to the Pentagon that he had a unit ready. General Ham then received the order to stand down. His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.
Geraldo had some ex-general on saying there were no assets available within proximity to help. Ham and this ex-general are certainly not saying the same thing. Geraldo would love to provide cover for Ozero.
those pesky little tapes.
will be interesting to see what happens to them.
My bet is NO ONE DID. He requested it, and was told to stand by , stand by , stand by.... soon he made the judgement that it would be dereliction of duty not to act, he did and was immediately relieved of command for it. As soon as it is revealed he was relieved of command for acting in the absence of orders. Obama is done for. It will show that Obama acted to fire a general in the time of crisis for taking action in the best interest in america and Obama was acting in the best interest of his campaign.
The key question now is whether or not the two drones that were overheard were armed. Chris Wallace asked Sen Warner directly on FOX News Sunday..Warner squirmed..leads me to believe they were armed...
Whorealdo is a liar ...
President Obama was apparently so fearful of offending some Islamic mob that he preferred to let our people be killed than send a couple of F-18s from Sigonella to Benghazi. Flight time -- for fully armed aircraft at about 0.7 or 0.8 Mach -- is less than an hour. The attack went on for seven hours. If the fly-guys busted Mach, they could have been there in about a half hour. Plenty of time to pop a sonic boom over the consulate which -- as we've seen in Afghanistan many times -- is enough to send the terrorists running. And -- if there wasn't time for the first flight to be armed -- it would have been able to recon the situation and give the time for fully-armed aircraft to arrive about fifteen or twenty minutes later.
If Ham says he was never ordered to send support, I have a number of questions: who screened the requests for assistance that came in from Benghazi; who made the decision not to forward those requests to the military commander in the region (Ham); if Ham was aware of the requests for assistance from those trapped in Benghazi, why did he need a specific order to come to their assistance? If he was aware of the requests for assistance, did he take it upon himself to seek permission from those above him in the chain of command?
Are the American military commanders so neutered that they have to wait for orders from on high before responding to Americans in immediate danger? Did Ham have to go up through the head of the US Army, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of Defence and the President, before he could respond? Was there an existing protocol where he did not have authority to respond in this type of situation without approval? If so, who was it that had the authority and why didn’t that person authorize intervention? If this was an ad hoc situation, who in the chain of command took responsibility for ordering those in the CIA annex to stand down?
The congressional committee needs to start at the bottom and work their way up through the entire chain of command. Find out who gave the CIA annex the order to stand down. Find out who gave that person the order, and so on. Find out what each individual knew, when they knew it, and to whom in the chain of command that they conveyed the information. A competent congressman with prosecutorial experience could get to the truth if he or she could question each of these individuals for 30 minutes.
As I follow this story, FOX is even reporting the Gun running angle. I think what the administration does not want out is when the drones where actually in the SKY. If they were up before the attack, this will look very bad.
I agree with you, but was wondering where Geraldo got this guy.
The follow-up question is obviously: WAS A REQUEST FOR HELP RECEIVED???
Everything I have read and seen so far is still confirming my initial thinking on the matter, going way back to my days as a NavSpecWar officer who took a SEAL det to Beirut a long time ago.
Once the alarm is sent from Benghazi, dozens of HQs are notified and are in the loop in real time, including AFRICOM and EURCOM, both located in Germany.
Without waiting for orders, they begin planning and executing rescue operations, including getting air support over Benghazi ASAP. But one thing they CANNOT DO without explicit orders from the POTUS is cross an international border. That is the big "red line."
All POTUS has to do is NOT grant cross-border authority, and the entire rescue (already in progress) must stop in its tracks. Ships can loiter on station, but planes fall out of the sky, so they must be redirected to an air base (Sigonella Sicily) to await the POTUS decision on granting CBA. If it never comes, the men in Behghazi must rely only on assets already "in country" in Libya, such as the Tripoli QRF and the Predators.
(And possibly AC-130s that might already have been in Libya: they were last year, but their location on 9-11-2012 is unknown. If they were "in country" but were prevented from firing, that is another situation.)
So if at the 5pm DC time meeting with Panetta and Biden, Obama said, "No outside military action," meaning no CBA will be granted, then THAT IS IT. Case closed.
That constitutes "standing orders" all the way down the chain of command via Panetta to Ham and the subordinate commands trying to rescue the men in Benghazi.
If Obama then goes upstairs to the family quarters to watch TV or sleep, or otherwise makes himself "unavailable," then his last standing orders will stand until he changes them, even if he goes to sleep until the morning of 9-12. Nobody in the chain of command below him can countermand his "standing orders" not to send military forces from outside of Libya into Libyan air space.
Personally, I think he left "no outside miltary intervention, no cross-border authority" standing orders, and then he went to bed. Damn him to hell.
(And to me, the most damning aspect of all is that Obama went to bed while his Ambassador was still missing and presumed kidnapped by Al Queda. Ambassador Stevens might have been on a Youtube video pleading for his life, ready to get the Nick Berg/Danny Pearl "intro to jihad" treatment, and Obama WENT TO BED to rest up for his much more important fund raiser in Las Vegas!)
See #21. This is Obama’s tar baby, 100%.
March 6, 2011: General Ham appointed commander Africom.
Sept 11, 2012: Benghazi attack.
Oct 6-7: Ham informed Rep Chaffetz that he had the forces in proximity to help but never got the go order.
Oct 18: General Ham is replaced.
Barely 18 months after he is appointed, Ham is being replaced. He predecessor served four years in the same post. General Ham is guilty of NOT falling on his sword for Obama like Panetta and Dempsey are. You do the math.
Yes our Commanders are neutered. There have been several situations where are troops have been killed unnecessarily because help was denied.
Remember also, on Aug. 6, 2011 we had the largest loss of life in Afghanistan when the chopper carrying SEALs and other SF. There was a AC-130 gunship there but was not allowed to fire on the “Painted” Taliban position, resulting in the chopper being shot out of the sky!
That seems to be a here-say story that was picked up by many, and has been deemed inacurrate.
BO needs to be put on trial, under oath for this along with Clinton and Panetta.
It will take Senate confirmation for Gen. Rodriguez to replace Ham. By the time that happens, Gen. Ham will be leaving his command about 3-4 months early. He was scheduled to rotate out March 2013.
Ham has not been “immediately relieved of command”. He’s still on the job.
Does anyone at his level or below have the authority to act?...No. The GO order can NOT be from anyone but the CIC. We don’t have one, of course.
I wish Steve would have asked Chaffetz “Was Ham going to send in help DESPITE not being asked?”
Apparently there are cables and emails indicating they were fully aware of the call for help. Why else would there by claims there was a order to “stand down”?
I am very certain that 0 received--in real time--the requests for help; in fact, his answer to the Denver reporter that he "did not deny" the requests prove that he DID get them.
But he did NOTHING in response to them--which gives him the weasel room to say he did not deny them.
As I've written in several posts here on FR, the man is a Coward, not a Commander, in Chief, and I pray for for all those in our military--including my son--who must serve "under" him.
God bless them for their service to our nation--and God bless you for yours!
Actually, it’s looking more like the Bin Laden score was a product, not of O’B-Ser calling the Seals, but of elements in the admin. (Panetta, Clinton) figuring out that they had to do it themselves, then tell him when it was under way and beyond recall.
There is NO difference between actively replying in the negative to a request for help and simply (passively) ignoring the plea for help.
As I said before an Assistance request ignored is no different than an assistance request denied.
yes, WE know this but it is important that the question be put to Petraeus, to Panetta, to Obama. “You say there was no denial of help but did you receive a request?”
So who gave the order to stand down?
FWIW, I had read that Obuttface has now classified those tapes. True or not ??? But it sure would be well within his MO to do exactly that.
I am sure it was here on FR but I’ve read so many threads and followed many links and cannot remember exactly which Benghazi thread it was.
Perhaps someone else will chime in ?
When Ham realized he was serving a mere man and his campaign and NOT America he said: “to hell with March, I’m outta’ here NOW.”
Then they stood next to the flag draped caskets holding the mutilated remains of Americans and blamed it all on a You Tube post.
Then the 44th President of the United States went before the world and haughtily stated that “the future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam”
Lacey2 : ~”This Administration claims it never ordered help NOT to be sent. These are weasel words. Ignoring a call for help is no different than a refusal to help whether it be an explicit written order or not.Assistance denied is assistance refused. Its as simple as that.”
A decision to not offer aid when aid is requested is still a DECISION TO DO NOTHING !
milagro ~:” I am very certain that 0 received—in real time—the requests for help; in fact, his answer to the Denver reporter that he “did not deny” the requests prove that he DID get them. But he did NOTHING in response to them—which gives him the weasel room to say he did not deny them.
As I’ve written in several posts here on FR, the man is a Coward, not a Commander, in Chief, ...”
These two comments encapture the crux of the issue :
request for aid was sent and recieved
the request was ignored - and that is a decision made
the Commander-in-Chief chose not to lead
the man is a coward, .. and abandoned his duty
and good men died ... and the leader of the nation slept !
. . “ but did you receive a request for assistance. . “?
” We’re still reviewing all the uh, infor uh mation that uh, you know, came in. . .
That means YES, but the President of the United States was upstairs eating a Sno Cone and left word that he was not to be disturbed since it was after working hours.
Who deemed it inaccurate and why?
That’s what I was trying to say, Lacey.
At this point in time, I think they did nothing which seems WORSE IMO.
John McCain says that the Benghazi surveillance tapes have been classified top secret. He has sent a letter asking that they be declassified:
Senators McCain, Ayotte and Graham request immediate declassification of Benghazi surveillance video
I saw somewhere there were 20 admin staff at this “consulate.”
What happened to them? Why were they not killed? Where are they now - and why is no one talking to them?
All very puzzling
Huge Thanks for posting !!! This is exactly where I read it. And I do pray for those tapes to become UNclassified. Obuttace has a way of trying to cover his lamea$$ed incompetence !
Mondays and I do NOT get along. It’s one of those days where I have only 2 brain cell’s left and one is in hiding. UGH.
I really doubt there are a lot of General officers who are going to order an attack on foreign soil without confirmation from the White House.
When the knowledge of the first drone came out, it was stated that it was filming the attack - and the cries for help could be heard by people watching in real time - but no one was responding. When I heard that, I wondered how the people watching could just sit by and do nothing. This train of thought made me think that this was a deliberate hit on the Ambassador and it was filmed for some reason. Why? If the drone that was filming was there before the attack started, it would go a long way toward proving that the whole thing was set up by the administration, and was just following a script: starting with the reduction of security at the consulate in the weeks beforehand, then the production of the “video,” then the filming of the attack.
Where did FoxNews get the film that they use when reporting on Benghazi? The quality is too good to be from hand-held video cams or cell phones.
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