When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over

The Daily Reckoning ^ | 8-13-2012 | Jim Karger

[blam]

When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over

August 13, 2012
By Jim Karger

“When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands,” is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. “You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands,” which I often follow with the question, “And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?”

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition “for the common good,” it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.

And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don’t seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

Also ignored (as if it didn’t even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

“…for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of ‘homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.’ Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being ‘necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities’ under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.”

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day — for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

That is your choice… for the moment.

[MachIV]

People need to start organizing.

[1010RD]

Yep, in a generation we’ll have a military made up of people who were once rejected for TSA positions. They’ll fire on you just as good Germans once did.

Half the nation voted for Obama last go round.

[Gorzaloon]

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it.

That's right. They can have them.

My revenge would not require firearms. And it would be terrible. I'm old. I have nothing to lose. It's been a good life.

[Kozak]

The cops have to go home eventually... And they among us....

[muir_redwoods]

After the first 200-300 civilians are killed for resisting gun confiscation we will have a somewhat different group remaining. The sheep will line up to drop off their guns but the patriots will then fully understand what’s at stake. There will be fewer of them but they will understand that it’s fight or die.

[Nervous Tick]

>> You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters

Of course not! Who would even be so silly as to try?

On the other hand, there’s asymmetrical warfare. It’s been refined to an art and the information on how to conduct it is freely available.

I’d hate like hell to have to go that route — but war IS hell and you do what you have to to win.

[Nervous Tick]

>> The cops have to go home eventually... And they among us....

They have families too. Be a shame if anything were to happen to them.

[listenhillary]

What guns?

I sold those years ago. Here’s all of the paperwork. You can’t find the buyer? Was he supposed to send me forwarding address in case he moved?

[PoloSec]

I suppose the same things were said over two hundred years ago about the the British Army.

Never underestimate the power of people who desire to be free.

[Tallguy]

I prefer to think of the brave souls in the Warsaw Ghetto who had but a few guns and held off the Nazi mechanized army for weeks. Imagine what a better armed and fed population would do.

AND technologically advanced populace! Somebody mentioned the possiblility that the gov't would make use of drones & drone strikes. I'm sure that they would. But what happens to those drones when they get jammed or the data-link gets hacked? This is beyond the capability of the Taliban or the typical Iraqi, but not a computer-savvy patriot.

[IamConservative]

But what happens to those drones when they get jammed or the data-link gets hacked?

..or they fly into nets floated by helium balloons, get shot down by a .50 out of someones rooftop, hit with a homemade RPG, get blinded, etc. There are some options..

[elcid1970]

“But I see an increasing number of antisocial, dead-end, under-educated (especially in matters Constitutional) yutes. They might think their government handout is what made this country great. Add to that illegal aliens whose national pride lies elsewhere.”

Sounds like Jimmah Carter’s “Hollow Army” of the late 1970’s, with a large percentage of drug-ridden Category IV recruits who were mostly worthless. It was one of the factors of a weakened America which emboldened the USSR to invade Afghanistan & set up shop in Nicaragua.

Now, despotic governments unleashing uniformed thugs on the populace is nothing new; these are considered expendable; they were sent into the Warsaw Ghetto first to use up the Jewish partisans’ few bullets.

But for sustaining a nationwide campaign of citizen disarmament? I think not. The last thing on any resister’s mind will be “I can’t shoot him, there but for the grace of G-d go I.”

Who is this Karger, anyway? If being pro-Israel makes one a “neo-con”, count me in.

[Travis McGee]

This dreck is a coward's rationalization of his own cowardice.

Karger fled the USA for a hideout in Mexico, which allows virtually no RKBA at all. He is a fool who believes that a rich gringo and his family will be left alone, and not be noticed by killers and kidnappers, (in govt issue uniforms or cartel false govt issue uniforms.) A fool, and a coward. Freedom will be fought for, and won or lost, in America.

This is at the end of the essay as originally published on LooRokwell.kom.

Jim Karger is a lawyer, and frequent contributor to The Dollar Vigilante, who has represented American businesses against incursions by government and labor unions for 30 years. In 2001, he left Dallas and moved to San Miguel de Allende in the high desert of central Mexico where he sought and found a freer and simpler life for he and his wife, Kelly, and their 10 dogs. Karger's website is www.crediblyconnect.com. Copyright © 2012 The Dollar Vigilante

[listenhillary]

EMP guns

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

In 2001, he left Dallas and moved to San Miguel de Allende in the high desert of central Mexico

Know it very well. If you're going to disappear, then disappear. Don't tell everyone where you went.

[Tallguy]

Yes, they will fire on US citizens. Google the “29 Palms Questionnaire”, circa 1998 or 99. Marines were asked if they would fire on American citizens if they were given a lawful order. Most answered yes. I’ve not seen this questionnaire since I first read in in the late 80s so I’ll need to find a copy if one is available. But what I’ve written above is really close to it.

This may be a case of manipulation-by-poll that we see every day in America. First you start with a ridiculous proposition, ie. That shooting Americans en masse could be a "Lawful Order". Then you ask the young Marine fresh from combat indoctinations, "Would you follow a Lawful Order? I suggest the details of the order don't matter. The Marine will say "Yes" because that is what he has been trained to do in a combat situation.

[DH]

When the come for my guns it will be my last day (or days) on this earth.

When that day comes we will have completely lost our freedoms, liberty and the Constitution of the United States will be ripped up and destroyed. We will have lost the heritage protected by the blood of hundred of thousands before us who gave their lives to ensure the freedoms granted by our founders.

I am 65 years old and have the privilege to have lived during the days of responsibility and freedoms that we started to lose on a major scale during the “Great Society” days in the mid 60’s.

I will not live as a slave to the Marxists. When the day comes to protect my lost rights under the Second Amendment, I will die rather than to give my lawful guns to the Gestapo and hopefully take some with me.

[Ratman83]

Jim Karger you are a blowhard who can stay in Mexico. Do not bother to come back to the US we neither need nor do we want you, coward.

[listenhillary]

That wraps up how I feel. Might as well make it painful for the State.

[Travis McGee]

A lot of old men would form up into thousands of “armies of one” and take one shot with the old thirty ought six deer slayer.

Ain’t no way for even the most sophisticated “social network analysts” (a booming fedgov career field) to detect or break up a guerrilla warfare “cell structure” comprised of thousands of “armies of one” armed with scoped deer rifles.

[Tallguy]

The first town that is subject to the raids looking for long arms — as soon as word gets out — all other weapons ‘disappear’. What are they going to do? Arrest those claiming that the weapons were lost or stolen for “failure to report”? LOL! Sure!

[bgill]

Guns? I’m scared of those things and you won’t find any in this house, no sir, Mr. Officer, sir. Don’t you know guns kill people?!?

[Travis McGee]

What an idjit, practically putting his address out on the internet.

I wonder how many Mexican kidnap gangs are doing recon on his kids getting dropped off at private school today?

[Tallguy]

WELL, you know obammy and holder won’t start disarming Watts, South Chicago, Liberty City first now don’t ya? 82nd Airbourne will have quite a time doing that.

What Homeland Defense had better realize is that if they seriously go after the "Right-Wing" groups that their Lefty buddies are going to take advantage of the situation. The lid will blow off in the cities. Big Sis won't have the luxury of "picking-off" one group at a time.

[P.O.E.]

They wouldn’t have to join and train with the official US military. They could just be riled up, given guns, rations, and a ride to wherever they were needed.

[Big_Harry]

"We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn"

That kind of brings it all home...

I wonder how many blow-hards sat around in the days before Stalin rounded all of them up and bragged about what they would do if the government dared to come into their homes.

[Covenantor]

The author presumes one hundred percent participation of local, city, county, and state LEOs in this effort. A class that since the Clinton era has been carefully culled to produce the maximum number of the politically correct supervised by affirmative action hires. All too many major cities and their suburbs have this command structure which has produced environments where the common officer is more concerned with coming home safe every night and protecting his pension. Add the union overlay to the PC administration and the result is a far less cohesive force than the author imagines.

He also imagines platoons of armored cars and ARCs rumbling down the streets. Given budget constraints the various police forces are hard pressed to keep even one such vehicle in a ready state. Rather they are treated as precious jewels, trotted out for photo ops and video footage at high profile stand offs. The same budget constraints limit establishing effective doctrine and training with regard to countering guerrilla tactics.

It's anybody's guess as too how many of these LEO simply walk off as in New Orleans, how many join in opposing confiscation efforts, and how many remain in place as moles. But if such orders truly come to pass it would come as no surprise that an unusually large number of police brass are involved in fatal auto accidents or "domestic tragedies" in the first few weeks.

Finally, there are enough of these type of pistoleros that present a challenge to the author's arguement.

Semi-mobile supply centers for comms gear, colorful patches, badgers, paperwork, spares, vehicles, etc, and if you're really lucky a source of hi-carb hi-sugar snacks.

[Mich Patriot]

While I’m sure that is true, how would someone go about obtaining one or two?

[P.O.E.]

No US president would conjure up a straw-boogy-man, would they? I can’t imagine a sitting president demonizing, say, the rich, or white hispanics, or....

[Eye of Unk]

In Alaska our AK Guard would most likely go door to door making sure each household had enough ammunition and its own weapon for a States Defense program.

No seriously I am not being funny, in Alaska we will tell the Feds to go piss up a rope, if they want to take the guns away from Alaska it would be easier to bribe God to have him send a major earthquake instead.

[cableguymn]

But what happens to those drones when they get jammed or the data-link gets hacked?
..or they fly into nets floated by helium balloons, get shot down by a .50 out of someones rooftop, hit with a homemade RPG, get blinded, etc. There are some options..

---

If Iran brought one down. So can we. Even if it’s a bush pilot running it down and shooting it while it’s in flight. We *will* find a a way.

[jim_trent]

You have never filled out a 4473 form?

[Durus]

It's funny how many people think that we could never win a revolutionary war against a powerful military...I mean that has never happened before or anything. Somehow some of these same people, without even a passing nod at the obvious cognitive dissonance, tells us how we could have never won in Vietnam and we can't win now in Afghanistan.

How come these grubby uneducated peasants can beat our military with all of their super duper weapons (they didn't build those btw), but one of the most armed and best trained populaces in the world couldn't do the same? Are we supposed to believe that?

This isn't Nazi Germany. This isn't communist Russia or communist China. Americans were born of rebellion, we are armed to the teeth, and we aren't stupid enough to fall for the false dichotomy of "suicide by cop" or "peacefully turn them in".

[MrB]

But what about anonymous sales?

“I know I bought that rifle new, but I sold it a few years ago to some guy from the other side of the state. Don’t recall his name...”

[Theophilus]

Karger sure is a beam of sunshine.

Karger is a bater, no I mean baiter...

...well he's probably both.

[EdReform]

I am Jack Hinson

[BO Stinkss]

True patriots have always stood against tyranny. Freedom ain't free.

[MrB]

There’s the option of giving them the cheap ones, hiding the good ones, and knowing that “it’s on”. Then organize and engage on our terms instead of theirs.

[mkjessup]

You really think US Marines will fire on US Citizens defending their Constitutional Rights?
I would be more worried about the person who GAVE that order to the Marines.
Fragging and ADs happen ALL the time..

I'm waiting for the breathless news reports 'breaking' on CNN and the rest of their alphabet soup network-brethren announcing that there has been a 'fragging' at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Oh just to qualify, that would be a 'tragedy', wouldn't it?

[ROCKLOBSTER]

So, what keeps that troops that won’t fire on US civilians from shooting the troops that will?

[Absolutely Nobama]

No Marine would ever follow such an order. No Marine officer would give such an order.

But if it ever comes down to it....

“I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.” --- Captain Nathan Hale

[MrB]

I don’t remember the details, but there was a joke about the difference between a “damn shame” and a “tragedy”...

Had to do with an empty seat on a bus or something.

[Absolutely Nobama]

No Marine would ever follow such an order. No Marine officer would give such an order.

But if it ever comes down to it....

“I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.” --- Captain Nathan Hale

[MrB]

Think about this - the marines, and the other branches, have a majority of folks of good character, good character based on generationally engrained Christian values and beliefs. This is why they won’t follow the order to fire on civilians.

However, why do you think that the left has been adamant about homosexualizing the military and punishing/purging those who won’t accept it as “normal”?

You get a twofer - you purge the Christians out, you purge those of good character out, and you fill the military with those who are already predisposed to a depraved mindset.

[Robert Teesdale]

Frustratingly stupid strawman argument that won’t go away. Direct confrontation is not how asymetrical insurgency works nor how Americans would react. It also presupposes invulnerability on the part of dependents of tyrants, a difficult and tenuous achievement.

To this ridiculous and arrogant posturing, I would respond with the equally blunt and unpleasant question of whether the confiscatees are willing to sacrifice their wives and children as well.

“What do you mean?”

“Will the municipal police chief move his wife and children into the police station to protect them? How about the college age daughter of the occupying colonel? Will she have a 24 hour protective detail? Congressmen have grandchildren, you know. Senators have staff, and they have lovers and children too.”

They would be enthusiastically murdered without pity in the event of circumstances this editorialist describes. Cafes where law enforcement congregate would be firebombed. Businessmen who engage in commerce with them would be decapitated in the night and left to be found in the street the next morning.

It is called “reprisals” among other things, And the writer of that inane screed forgets that ugly and miserably tragic reality cuts both ways.

Make resistance bloodily impossible, and it will rise ferociously to the occasion. Simple truth. Ask and serving front line officer.

Resistance is like life; “it will find a way”. That quote from Jurassic Park, of all sources, is quite true.

This is how it’s always worked, through all of human history. One should not assume that Americans are any less capable than the rudest Pashtun in the crudest hut in the lowest valley of Bagram.

“Stripping motivated people of their freedom and dignity, and rubbing their noses in it, is a very bad idea.”
Another truth statists and their aroused and enchanted advocates pretend isn’t a historical, present and future reality.

Just sayin’.

[jim_trent]

> “But what about anonymous sales?”

I have bought a few of my guns through “anonymous sales”. However, I am not going to pass up the latest and greatest offerings of the gun factories, so many of mine have 4473 forms. I keep the non-4473 guns separate from my 4473 guns so they can disappear in a hurry if necessary.

In case anyone says that is not “registration”, keep in mind that when the dealer goes out of business, he has to send all forms to the BATF. That has been going on since 1968. How many gundealers have gone out of business since then?

I remember talking to one dealer years ago. He said that when he retired, he was going to have an unfortunate fire in the chicken coop he kept his 4473 forms stored in. A few years later, when Clinton increased the cost of a permit several hundred percent, there was a huge decrease in the number of gun dealers. However, I did not read about a huge increase in chicken coop fires. I suspect all of them turned in their forms, just like the guy above suspects we will all turn in our guns. I hope he is wrong.

BTW, I remember when the 1968 GCA was passed. I was a kid then, but I remember a lot of people saying that when we throw out the bums at the next election, it would be repealed. It did not happen. Keep that in mind when people spout off about repealing Obomacare. After a “temporary tax”, the most durable thing around is a government program.

[sergeantdave]

“If the government arms the “Weather Service” that will make more arms available to the people.”

Your enemy will bring to you all the weapons you need to defeat him. - Mao

Mao was a murdering ass but he knew guerilla warfare tactics well.

[Dick Vomer]

What has to be asked is, "Are you willing to kill someone who you might know if they are part of the FedGov machine trampling the constitutional rights and subjugating the country?"

That, sadly, is a question that may have to be answered. ....

exactly. It's hard to shoot someone (so I'm told). However if you hunt and are used to killing and cleaning animals, it makes it easier by desensitizing you to the consequences of shooting a living thing. They won't be brutal and organized about this. They'll do it slowly like they did with homosexuals in the military. One small step at at time.

Making it expensive to get CCW, increasing penalties for violations of firearm laws, making ranges environmentally expensive, ammo expensive, making "reasonable " gun laws....slowly and slowly like boiling a frog.

How do I know this is a fact? Because if you'd of told me that I'd be witnessing this when my father was at Camp Pendleton I'd of punched you in the mouth.... now everybody shrugs there shoulder and says, "what can you do?'.

[jboot]

The author is mistaken.

Were Americans living in comfort and plenty, with a world of opportunity before them and everything to live for, he might be right. But we are not. And some of us have little left to lose, or are tired of the game and hold our meagre winnings very loosely.

Dying quickly for a lost cause in a hopeless fight is preferable to living as a slave to the enemy, with nothing left but hearing his mocking voice calling evil good and good evil until the miserable end.

[1010RD]

How did the resistance to government schooling go? How about Social Security, the Great Society, abortion, etc.?

People will roll over and let the dictator rub their belly. See being on the leash isn’t so bad.

The Dog and the Wolf - Aesop

A gaunt Wolf was almost dead with hunger when he happened to meet a House-dog who was passing by.

“Ah, Cousin,” said the Dog.
“I knew how it would be; your irregular life will soon be the ruin of you. Why do you not work steadily as I do, and get your food regularly given to you?”

“I would have no objection,” said the Wolf, “if I could only get a place.”

“I will easily arrange that for you,” said the Dog; “come with me to my master and you shall share my work.”

So the Wolf and the Dog went towards the town together. On the way there the Wolf noticed that the hair on a certain part of the Dog’s neck was very much worn away, so he asked him how that had come about.

“Oh, it is nothing,” said the Dog. “That is only the place where the collar is put on at night to keep me chained up; it chafes a bit, but one soon gets used to it.”

“Is that all?” said the Wolf. “Then good-bye to you, Master Dog.”

Moral of Aesops Fable: Better starve free than be a fat slave