Posted on 08/02/2012 12:00:49 PM PDT by Malone LaVeigh
The university psychiatrist who was examining accused movie theater shooter James Holmes found his behavior so erratic that she brought it to the attention of a group that measures the possibility of violent campus threats.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsfeed.time.com ...
Someone has lots of 'splaining to do.
CU has excellent science and engineering faculties. As for the rest - and the administration...well, they are in Boulder, CO.
‘Nuff said.
There’s nothing you can legally do about someone exhibiting strange behavior until that behavior crosses the line and he actually DOES something dangerous to himself or others.
That’s the law. We don’t lock people up pre-emptively. It’s the price we pay for a free society.
Again, there was nothing the university or law enforcement could do, even if they were keeping an eye on him. It’s not against the law to be strange.
So, it now appears that once again the real lethal weapon was political correctness.....
Frankly, I think she may be the catalyst behind this kid. No doubt he went nuts....but I think there's much more to this.....much, much more.
And that's why everything is sealed....just like the pervert flaps at the college....
Don't make excuses....we've seen that with the college coaches, haven't we?
So she violated the psychotherapist privilege? Why didn’t she tell the rest of us?
I agree with you so take the rest of my comments only as adding to the conversation.
We do not want to cross a line where everyone that looks funny is arrested or brought in for questioning. In this case, however, it seems something else needed to be done. What that is without infringing on the liberties your rightly point out I don't know.
Any ideas? Again, you have sounded a bold and needed reminder of the cost to freedom by overreaching.
This think stunk from the beginning, slowly finding sources for the stink.
Inaction endangered not only the general public but the people in those CU facilities. In fact, one of the things I wonder about this case is why did he shoot up a bunch of strangers instead of people on the campus where he was apparently having trouble? Most of these crazies go after their own institution.
I sure as hell hope she was just inept. Otherwise, she was his handler.
Same thing happened with the Virginia Tech shooter. Councillor warned people he was dangerous if I remember right.
Look, what is the obligation of a faculty doctor to continue to treat a drop-out?
This guy was no kid, you know. And no longer attending the University. And VERY clever even if insane. EDven in high school he knew he was different and his research area was abnormal psych.
We know more his UCD psychiatrist’s personal medical history than we do about who and where he learned to shoot guns and make bombs- and he HAD to practice.
I believe that he sent the package to her because he knows that she screwed with his head....and really messed him up. And that's why he told the cops about the package. If you haven't seen some of these meds at play, I'll tell you....it's scarey...
And I'll bet he also called her a couple of weeks before...more than a few times....I do not believe there is patient/patient privacy here and that she had a duty beyond what transpired.
And one gets a warrant for this how?
Look, what is the obligation of a faculty doctor to continue to treat a drop-out?
This guy was no kid, you know. And no longer attending the University. And VERY clever even if insane. Even in high school he knew he was different and his research area was abnormal psych.
We know more his UCD psychiatrist’s personal medical history than we do about who and where he learned to shoot guns and make bombs- and he HAD to practice.
Yup, that's correct. We need to be careful about how we go about this. My hope is that we can show that this case, as with Loughner before, shows just how impotent and worthless the psychiatric profession is and that we can use that knowledge to push back their increasing influence over our kids and our lives.
I realize people hate psychiatrists but the assumption that the psychiatrist caused or exacerbated his mental illness seems less plausible than the psychiatrist simply not being successful in treating an existing mental illness.
When someone has a heart attack I don’t immediately assume it was caused by their cardiologist.
all the reports of his past suggest schizophrenia.
If you are treating a schizo you dont “push meds” - you prescribe them, monitor his mental state via med checks, and alert someone if he is not taking them and you believe he is a danger to himself or others. The bar for determining this to a legal standard of involuntary commitment is suprisingly high if the patient hides his thoughts and behaviors.
He was researching abnormal psych even when he was in high school and earning scholarships and grants for his brilliance.
I have heard little about the fact he was adopted and what his family medical history may have been as far as inherited insanity, and what his adoptive parents knew or were told about it
with HIPPA it is surprising not that his records are sealed, but that we the public know so much
The psychiatric profession is not without flaws and there are legitimate issues with overprescription of antidepressants, anxiety meds, etc. that may or may not work....
But a lot of people have bought the whole Scientologist “psychiatry is the root of all evil, all psychiatric meds make things worse” perspective.
There’s also general misundestanding of schizophrenia as you note and, that it is obvious that in general medications help most schizophrenics greatly.
Maybe colleges need to stop refusing to share anything about a student over 18 with his parent or guardian if a therapist recommends it
hell, the parents couldnt even get this guy’s’s grades much less reports on his medical condition or drop-out status unless he signed papers authorizing the University to share
But as a corollary, I don’t care if he’s nuts (obviously) or not. Try, convict and execute.
You have to live with organic mental illness to know how absurd this is. Yeah crazy people take medications because they are..crazy. However, the craziness came before the meds! And sometimes it takes a lot of tweaking to find the right meds and they control but not cure the illness, and sometimes the patient doesn't take them or abuses them or self medicates to try to feel.... normal..or something else..... and sometimes there is a bad reaction to the drug and it backfires as sadly happened to some I knew. The attempt at treatment fails. This guy sounds like he was deconstructing and seeking to use his flawed brilliance to become more "powerful" as he assumed a fantasy character persona. That does suggest drug abuse. He could have induced his own psychosis by self medicating on something she prescribed or something he cooked up himself in the lab. It happens.
I believe the courts were trying to order Jared Loughner to take his meds so he was sane enough to be tried
Oh puleeze.
Please provide the citations.
He was an adult. I see no reason why the university should share info with his family. The family should require their son to allow them to look at his University records on condition of paying for any of it or co-signing on any loans with the student ... but that’s between family members.
My brother-in-law just went through this with his daughter. She had the master password to her University account and she changed the parental password so they could not go in and see her grades. They said “fine, but don’t expect us to pay any more toward your university”. She reset the password for them.
“There’s nothing you can legally do about someone exhibiting strange behavior until that behavior crosses the line and he actually DOES something dangerous to himself or others.”
I know that in many states - if not most - that’s simply not true. In Washington State, two doctors can swear you’re a present danger to yourself or others and have you put on in-patient watch for 72 hours.
It rarely happens though, because of the potential litigation.
What needed to be done that wasn’t done was to stop interfering with our Constitutional right to bear arms. As long as we have that right and can freely exercise it, it doesn’t matter much when these crazies decide to blow their top, we will just put them down with a minimum of suffering and keep the rest of our freedoms intact.
I was not, for one moment, arguing against the worth of psychiatric medicine.
I speak as one who has dealt with these issues for three close relatives, two of whom have had multiple hospitalizations for mental illness. I KNOW how hard it is to get treatment and how hard it is on families and friends who are essentially powerless to help someone who doesn’t want help.
Medical treatment, particularly targeted medication, can bring a patient back to reality and a good life. To use your word, psychiatric treatment is impotent only when it is not used.
Are you advocating a police state? You can’t just search someone’s house/apt. because you feel like it. It’s a lot easier to sound smart using hindsight.
As for comparing this to Penn State, that’s ridiculous. People saw Sandusky committing child rape. James Holmes had committed no crime previous to his rampage.
You can’t be serious.
What “little bit of investigation” are you suggesting? A break-in?
Short of a court-ordered search warrant, there is no way to force a psycho to let you see what he’s up to. And no judge is going to issue a search-warrant without evidence.
Which brings us back to the starting line.
However, will that stand up when families of victims want to sue the University?
I bet it won't! In any case, it is high time for some clarity in this because innocent people are being murdered outright!
As I’ve stated in another post, I’ve been through this with three relatives. Fortunately, in our cases, no one got hurt.
Somehow families and friends need more power to force a mentally-ill person into evaluation and treatment. I have no answers, but plenty of frustration.
In the case of a first-time offender, as both Holmes and Loughner were, I don’t know how we can ever act pre-emptively. One thing we can do with those who are judged a danger and locked up temporarily is to require continual follow-up and medication and arrest anyone who does not stay in compliance.
As it is now, a demonstrably ill patient can be forced into confinement and treatment, but only until he is again mentally competent. That is often just days or, at the most, weeks. Then he’s set free without compulsory supervision, and he goes off his meds in a short time.
And it starts all over again.
The colleges don’t make those privacy rules. They are the (unfortunate) law. Wasn’t always that way, but rather a result of all this “right to privacy” crap.
I contend that if I’m paying for school or medical treatment for someone over 18, I should have access to documentation regarding what I’m paying for. But colleges and doctors have to follow the law.
Oh, yeah. Been there. And yet how do you structure it so it wouldn't be routinely abused? I wish I had an answer on this one, and I do not. BTT.
That’s true.
Here in Texas, family can sign a warrant that allows law enforcement to take the individual into custody and before a judge, where his mental status is evaluated and where it is determined whether he is a danger to himself or others.
But it doesn’t work very well.
I’ve seen a looney brother-in-law convince judge that the family was just out to get him, then go get in his pickup, with his rifle, and continue frightening the town, family fearing for their own safety. Fortunately, the cops in a nearby village stopped him on a traffic violation and were able to lock him up and get him committed.
He was out again in a week.
The current system just doesn’t work.
From what I understand, Holmes was just fine at
UC Riverside. I watched a UCR Dean speak very highly of Holmes.
During his time at UCR, he was awarded a grant to study at the
Jonas Salk foundation in La Jolla CA.If there was any abnormal behavior,
it occurred at CU Anschutz Denver Med center.Why did Holmes need or require a shrink ?
Who initiated the service ?
Was he prescribed Psychotropic drugs by Fenton.
Fenton has been disciplined for distributing drugs without documentation.If so for what reason?
How did Holmes go from a very promising student
to a nut case in less than a year ?James Holmes' Father - LIBOR
If this information is correct, James Holmes' father, Robert Holmes,from Godlike Productions
is a VIP with American Credit Score Company and is about to appear before Congress
regarding this LIBOR scandal. Guess what? Now, he is having to focus attention on this
ordeal with his mind-controlled son. This could be the reason his son was chosen as
the Manchurian candidate for yet another staged event aimed at convincing the masses
that gun control is necessary for the safety of the public.
You are so right.
When my youngest entered college, the university apologetically told parents at orientation that they would not be able to share student grades and other info with us because of privacy laws. They did, however, provide each parent with a legally worded release for the student to sign that allowed parents access to all student records.
When they’re 18 and still a legal dependent, you have leverage.
I love that school.
Dear me. That’s as crazy as Holmes is, which is saying a lot.
“I contend that if I’m paying for school or medical treatment for someone over 18, I should have access to documentation regarding what I’m paying for. But colleges and doctors have to follow the law.”
Yes; that’s why you should insist that your adult offspring sign a Buckley Amendment waiver, in the case of college expenses, if you are paying the cost.
I did.
He was happy to.
Great kid, great young adult. You’d love him.
Holmes's supervisor called him, "an unusually bad intern." "Odd, ... really stubborn, ..." hard to get through to. Source
We were told that the package was not opened until after the shooting (although this warning to staff went out before the shooting).
How many of the faculty got the hell out of town that weekend?
My heart goes out to both to all those injured or killed by Holmes and also to the Holmes family. I do not agree with your attempt to hurt anyone further with scurrilous accusations.
If you are prescribing medications to someone, there is more accountability.
The pills don’t make a personal “normal”. It makes them “pass” as functional in society. He clearly had a malfunction and shot up nearly a half dozen people.
Would you ask an alcoholic to drive over tomorrow night to see you? Or would you ask someone “unstable” to be escorted?
People who cannot be legally held accountable for their actions by reason of insanity cannot be permitted to roam freely unescorted.
Repeatedly we see the call made to restrict gun purchase by EVERYONE when those who are deranged are often identified long before they begin purchasing. A court/physician mandated legal guardian in their company at all time would see to it that they don’t acquire a stash of firearms or rampage in a movie theater.
Some people need to be locked up as criminally insane. Or as threats to themselves and others. DWI laws prosecute those who MAY LATER CAUSE AN ACCIDENT. Not just those who already did.
Holmes's supervisor called him, "an unusually bad intern." "Odd, ... really stubborn, ..." hard to get through to. Source
Perhaps the supervisor did not have the skill sets
for communicating with extremely bright students.
So Holmes is guilty until proven INNOCENT ! There is not one person in the theater who can The person who shot people in the theater If Robert Holmes is to testify in the LIBOR scandal, How un-American and simple minded bullying.
positively identify James Holmes.
was masked from head to toe in BLACK.
Timothy Franz Geithner is involved.
If a doctor thinks that his patient is a threat to himself or other people, they by law have to report it....she did and it was ignored it sounds like....
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