Posted on 07/28/2012 8:48:52 PM PDT by Jyotishi
"Forbidden to you are your mothers and daughters, your sisters, your aunts paternal and maternal, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your mothers who have given suck to you, your suckling sisters, your wives' mothers, your stepdaughters who are in your care being born of your wives you have been in to -- but if you have not yet been in to them it is no fault in you - and the spouses of your sons who are of your loins, and that you should take to you two sisters together, unless it be a thing of the past; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate; and wedded women, save what your right hands own." (Qur'an 4:23-24)
Will the Islamophobia never end? "US professor says Coptic girls being kidnapped, forced into servitude in Egypt," by Joseph Mayton for Bikya Masr, July 27 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
CAIRO: A new report from George Washington University professor Michele Clark and Coptic rights activist Nada Ghaly has argued that thousands of young Coptic Christian girls in Egypt are the victim of kidnapping and forced servitude by Muslims in the North African country.
“Women and girls who are found indicate they were befriended by friends or relatives of their kidnappers, or the kidnappers themselves, drugged and then taken in a well-organized plan.
“Others, like a young mother who testified before the Helsinki Commission last week, were snatched by violent strangers in broad daylight. Her would-be abductor shouted to bystanders while dragging her to a waiting taxi, ‘No one interfere! She is an enemy of Islam’,” said a report highlighting the new report.
The report, which detailed Clark and Ghaly’s latest description of violence against young Coptic women, goes on to say:
Abduction, many who return home indicate that they were raped and told they could not go home because their families would never accept them back. Many are beaten; others are forced into domestic servitude. They are not allowed to leave where they are held without a member of their captor’s family keeping watch. They eventually are brainwashed into thinking the only way to be safe is to convert. Their families, who have been searching frantically for their daughters, sisters and wives — without any help from the police — often never discover their fate. The lucky ones find out via YouTube and other websites that their daughters are alive and have converted. While some conversions could be legitimate, overwhelming evidence points to abduction, forced marriage and coerced conversion persecuting the Coptic population.
Clark is not new to her outspoken coverage of the plight of Coptic women, issuing near annual reports on the situation, which some observers say embellishes and delivers a picture that is far from accurate.
In recent years, Coptic Christian advocacy groups have lambasted the Egyptian authorities for allegedly not forcing the return of Coptic girls to their families after they have allegedly been kidnapped by Muslim men. Police and media have reported scores of missing women over the past few years and many quickly return to their families without much explanation.
Some Coptic families have alleged that the women were kidnapped by Muslim men and forced to undergo conversion to Islam.
But some women’s rights advocates here argue that these are not kidnappings. More often, they see these cases as cries for help by young women in the socially conservative Coptic community, which traces its church to the first century when, by traditional belief, the apostle Mark founded it in Egypt as the first Christian church in history.
In particular, rights activists say the missing young women draw attention to customs among traditional Copts, particularly the lack of access to divorce and the practice of arranged marriages.
“A key reason for the so-called ‘kidnappings’ is that Coptic women have no right to divorce,” Nehad Abul Komsan, head of the Cairo-based Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights and now leading member of the newly re-established National Council of women, told Bikyamasr.com in a previous interview on the subject.
“This means that if their parents tell them they are going to marry their cousin, they have to submit to this and have no choice . . . So they turn to Islam, not because of a spiritual belief in the religion but because it gives them more of an opportunity to choose their life’s path,” she said.
Once returned to their families the women’s absences often remain unexplained and the ongoing controversy has served as flashpoints for long-simmering tensions between the Coptic and Muslim communities.
One of most reported cases is of Irene Hanna Labib, who was allegedly kidnapped from Sohag, some 500 kilometers south of Cairo, in 2009. According to AINA’s reporter, Mary Abbelmassih, the Egyptian police in the area are refusing to go after her abductor. She argues that Labib’s kidnapping is part of the “Islamization business” and part of the way Egypt’s Muslim population are attempting to rid Egypt of Christians.
She quotes Magdy Khalil, a Copt and researcher, who says “abducting and converting Coptic girls to Islam is not only a result of the paranoid and racist incitation against the Copts, it is an organized and pre-planned process by associations and organizations inside Egypt with domestic and Arab funding, as the main role in seducing and luring Coptic girls is carried through cunning, deceit, and enticement, or through force if required.”
But Komsan said her organization has received numerous reports from Coptic women who seek their help in deciding what to do with their lives, especially in a situation when legal divorce is not an option.
She said another major factor spurring young Coptic women to flee their families is the move in the 1990s by Coptic Christian churches to forbid conversion to another Christian sect in which they might have found more freedom.
“It is not necessarily a societal problem; it is more religious issues that face women in our society,” said Abul Komsan.
“Women face leaders that force them to do things that they do not have any desire to do. They do certain things, such as running away from their family and converting to Islam, because it is the only way to get out of their designated role their family has for them.”
Laura, a Coptic woman in her mid-20s living in Alexandria who asked that her surname not be used, agreed. She said that while a few of the kidnappings may be authentic, most of the media reports are based on fabrications made by the families to disguise their daughters’ dissatisfaction.
“We, as Coptic women, have to deal with what our priests tell us and force upon us on a daily basis and often many women just can’t take it any longer so they just leave their families and run off with a Muslim man,” she says.
Because of the alleged kidnappings, more women are coming to her organization for counseling, Abul Komsan says, and many ask for advice about whether to leave or stay.
Muslim leaders have condemned the alleged kidnappings as contrary to Islamic thinking. Al-Azhar’s former grand sheikh Sayyed Al-Tantawi told Al-Ahram a few years ago that “these actions are contrary to Islam and we hope to receive more information concerning alleged kidnappings and would like to have an open dialogue with our Christian brothers and sisters in the country.”...
Actually, kidnapping infidels and enslaving them is fully sanctioned in Islamic law: "As for the captives, the amir [ruler] has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale and manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Allah, may he be exalted, says, 'When you encounter those [infidels] who deny [the Truth=Islam] then strike [their] necks' (Qur'an sura 47, verse 4)" — Abu’l-Hasan al-Mawardi, al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah (The Laws of Islamic Governance), trans. by Dr. Asadullah Yate, (London), Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd., 1996, p. 192.
Posted by on July 27, 2012 5:48 PM
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In particular, rights activists say the missing young women draw attention to customs among traditional Copts, particularly the lack of access to divorce and the practice of arranged marriages.
"A key reason for the so-called ‘kidnappings’ is that Coptic women have no right to divorce,” Nehad Abul Komsan, head of the Cairo-based Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights and now leading member of the newly re-established National Council of women, told Bikyamasr.com in a previous interview on the subject.
“This means that if their parents tell them they are going to marry their cousin, they have to submit to this and have no choice . . . So they turn to Islam, not because of a spiritual belief in the religion but because it gives them more of an opportunity to choose their life’s path,” she said.
OMG
This is one of the most evil twisted self-justifications to have ever been projected onto victims. Muslims in the Mideast do every one of the things Nehad Abul Komsan accuses the Copts of doing, and Komsan ignores the fact that under sharia women cannot initiate divorce. What a liar!
And shame on Joseph Mayton for repeating these lies!
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While I believe that abductions of non-Muslim women and girls in Muslim-majority countries is a REAL problem, I think we Westerners should stop a moment and hear a few of the voices quoted in the Mayton article.
I suspect that, in its effort to survive more than a millennium of dhimmitude, Coptic Christianity developed certain rigidities that weigh heavily on some of its adherents--and I write as a Christian who also strongly opposes divorce, abortion, the institutionalization of adolescent rebellion, female clergy, and the feminist movement in general.
Even in Protestant circles, which ought to know the Bible's view of all human authority as that of service rather than as mastery, and that there are God-ordained constraints on human powers which fathers, political heads, church officers, and such must observe, I've run into advocates of "patriarchy" who say that is the husband wants the wife to wear blue, the wife must wear blue, even if the blue dress is in the wash. Or, there are some who have said that if the church session tells the membership to put whitewalls on their cars, everyone must put whitewalls on their cars. While I believe our culture desperately needs a "rebunking" of traditional values (and, especially, a respect for fathers), this kind of thing is foolish and only serves to discredit the proper use of authority, which must limit its pronouncements to what the Scriptures command or what may, by good and necessary consequence, be derived therefrom. Perhaps this is what is meant, at base, in the admonition in Joshua 1:7 to deviate neither to the right nor the left.
And, to return to Egypt, what is to be expected in a culture in which the alternatives available to the dissatisfied, especially to women, are so few?
We in the West often have seen well-educated women who fall for Islamic charmers (usually to regret it bitterly a couple years down the pike). Is it not the case that for many people, and in many contexts, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence? Can we reasonably expect that this common human failing should be absent among the Christian women of the Middle East?
replied to comment from Kepha
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It is undoubtedly true that you are correct about the rigidity the Copts may have adopted. It would seem that such rigidity may be hurting them when they need to build stronger alliances with fellow Christians.
But can the "grass is greener" argument really be valid in a culture in which girls are constantly warned from their youth about the fate that can befall them from the majority culture? It would seem to not be a comparable situation to the so-called 'educated' Western women. Undoubtedly it probably happens in Egypt that some Copt girls are charmed away from domineering families, but it cannot be a large percentage of such cases.
Finally, my friend, you wrote "And, to return to Egypt, what is to be expected in a culture in which the alternatives available to the dissatisfied, especially to women, are so few?"
We all know that any lack of "alternatives" is due to Islamic culture in general and to the dhimmintude of the Copts in particular. For the sake of others who may just be learning about these matters here, we need to state that the blame for this does not lie with the Copts but rather with people like Nehad Abul Komsan.
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Rev Dr Mark Durie has also discussed this.
http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2009/11/abduction-and-islamization-of-christian.html
http://www.csi-int.org/pdfs/csi_coptic_report.pdf
"A pioneering new report released by Christian Solidarity International and The Coptic Foundation for Human Rights details the abduction, rape, forced marriage and forced islamization of Coptic women and girls in Egypt.
"Despite their significant numbers in Egypt (8-12%), the Christian community, known as the Copts, is frequently subject to widespread marginalization from society and even violent forms of abuse. According to the Egyptian Constitution, Islam is the “religion of the state” and its “principle source of legislation”.
"While the hardship of minority communities in the Middle East is well documented, the abuse detailed in this report reveals a disturbing union of religious oppression, gender-based sexual and physical violence and forced marriage that corresponds with international standards of human trafficking. There have been fifty such cases in the previous year in one Egyptian parish alone...".
This Muslim preying upon girls and women happens in Pakistan, too: Patrick Sookhdeo discusses it in his book 'Pakistan: A People Betrayed" which is based on his PhD thesis on the history of the Christian church in the region of India that is now called Pakistan. Sookhdeo notes that *married women* - both Hindu and Christian - are targeted as well as unmarried women and girls; and this is done in order to humiliate their husbands and the rest of their community (by 'rubbing in', like twisting a knife in a wound, the powerlessness of the vastly outnumbered de facto dhimmis vis a vis the howling Mohammedan mob that surrounds them; the fact that the husband is unable to defend or rescue his wife, and that the community cannot protect and defend their own).
There was a case in Pakistan where a thirteen-year-old Christian girl was seized **from under her family's roof** by a powerful local Muslim and his gun-toting gang. There is *no way* that that girl was 'seduced' or wanting to flee a repressive home situation.
In reading this article one must remember that dhimmis - and the Copts have been dhimmis, de jure or (as at present) de facto, for over a millennium - have been subjected to an elaborate and deliberate sacralised system of physical, mental, spiritual and emotional Abuse. They are trapped in the dungeon of the psychopathic serial rapist-killer; trying to stay alive just one more day. They have been conditioned to blame themselves for what is done to them, and to avoid condemning their Abusers.
I would say, flatout, that Komsan - who is a Muslim - is Bullshitting and Projecting and Blaming the Victims, and that the token Copt trotted out to support Komsan is being a Good Dhimmi (like all those Islamochristians who dutifully say what their Muslim masters tell them to say).
For more on what dhimmitude does to your mind:
http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2011/10/double-bind-upon-copts-dhimmitude-in.html
Monday, October 10, 2011
A Double-Bind Upon the Copts: dhimmitude in action
And from 2005, the story of a former Muslim, from Egypt, who *engaged* in this filthy business of seducing/ entrapping/ 'converting' Christian girls. By fraud and/ or force.
http://www.islam-watch.org/LeavingIslam/confessions.htm
Confessions of a Former Islamist
by Ahmed Awny Shalakamy
2005/05/21
replied to comment from Kepha
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You wrote, in an oblique defense of supremacist Muslim behavior, that Coptic women may perceive Islam as the 'grass being greener on the other side'.
I've no absolutely no doubt that Coptic women are well aware of Islam's hard-wired misogyny. So, are you suggesting that the fire seems more attractive than the frying pan?
Could you, for example, point to thousands of cases of Coptic women harming themselves or committing suicide because they are trapped in a Coptic marriage in which they are regularly beaten and raped?
You can cite 1,000s of such cases in Islam!!
I find you're logical contortions to ameliorate Islam's doctrinal policy of controlling every clitoris on the planet offensive.
replied to comment from Buraq
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No, this was no oblique defense of Islamic supremacist behavior, but an expression of some less-than-completely-sympathetic understanding for the women and girls involved.
In any real abduction/rape, I have absolutely no sympathy for the perp.
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Islam is a con trick that allows the objectively inferior to feel subjectively superior.
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Michael Coren had an Egyptian Imam on his show who had the nerve to tell Michael that " Christians in Egypt have more rights than muslims".
What a laugh, and then the other Egyptian guest named Muhammad Elmasry who appeared on the show earlier is on a video declaring that gays, lesbians, and any person in Israel over 18 is a valid target for murder by terrorism.
The liberal/leftists in canada seem to love their fascists and islamic-supremacy goons or Communist thugs like castro who attended the Funeral of Pierre Trudeau in Ottaw with not ONE outcry to ban castro from entering canada. The CBC sells the DVD of the Funeral with castro there because trudeau and Liberals vacation in Cuba to prop-up Communism as the lowly peons fetch them their drinks while on the beaches getting some sun.
Just yesterday the MSm censored a report of a muslim rapists that sexually assualted his filthy infidel female workers. The refused to use the "M" word but they love to find any link to a Chritisn for most other crimes.
The CBc still won't report about the 1989 Jiad slaughter on 14 females by Gamil Gharabi in Montreal who hated canada for letting women go to school. The Men-hating ( Misandry) femiNazi's l0oved this slauyghter to bash all males for what a Muslim did, and this includes the self-hating leasbian jew named Susan G Cole in Toronto and Judy Rebbick who has a mustache thinker than mine.
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Gentlemen ! Gentlemen ! Rest assured that when Professor Clark informs President Obama about this, he will persuade his Muslim Brotherhood friends to step in and put an end to it.
Allah must be most upset that his loyal followers are persecuting Christian. I see him tossing and turning on His Heavenly cloud as he worries over this non-Islamic treatment of the followers of His other Prophet, Jesus.
Please remember 'Islam means Peace'..... not submission.
replied to comment from Kepha
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So, Kepha.
What proportion of these 'alleged' cases of abduction/ rape/ forcible conversion to Islam, of Coptic girls, in Egypt, do you think are likely to be 'real'?
None? Ten percent? Twenty percent? Fifty percent?
The tone of your comment suggests that you are assuming that the majority are *not* really abduction / rape/ forcible conversion, that the Copts - and it isn't just a few, it is a range of people (and why the hell would they all be lying about it?) are lying about what's happening, and that the Muslim version of events - the girls are running away to Islam of their own free will, or because life is so much nastier in the Coptic community and so much better among the Muslims - is most probably true.
Care to explain exactly why you think this?
replied to comment from dumbledoresarmy
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Actually, while I do indeed believe that quite a number of these conversions ARE forcible rapes/abductions (which, I understand, renders a young woman utterly ruined in Coptic as well as Muslim culture), I also suspect that some are willing converts, too.
Do we not all know people who don't know their historic faith very well? I know that I could retire as a wealthy man if I had a green American dollar for every time I've heard people parrot some line about "Islamic tolerance" and "Islamic regard for biblical religion"--lines which I know to be utterly foolish.
Haven't many of us noted the numbers of foolish Western women who succumb to the blandishments of Muslim lovers (even if they do regret it later)? How much greater is the temptation for those raised as second-class citizens when conversion may offer an exit to such status?
I suppose I accept that temptations to all kind of wrongs have existed since the serpent approached Eve in the Garden of Eden.
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Islam is a war plan.
By Satan, against God.
Islam is a terrorist cult.
Dear Leader must be very proud of himself for bringing us “Arab Spring.”
bmfl
The Copts should have moved out of Egypt decades ago...
This activity is not new...
“Islam is a terrorist cult.”
Hence, pagan, Satanic.
“The whole of the law is do what thou wilt”.
The law of the lawless.
Why should they move out?
It’s their country.
But while the Egyptian Army - that shoots up Coptic monastries - remains funded by the US there’s not a whole bunch they can do to fight back.
Maybe your next President won’t be a Muslim. That’s what they’re waiting for.
Islam, the Religion of Evil.
[ Why should they move out? It’s their country. ]
NO.. it used to be their country..
They pay “jiziya”(for being non muslim) and their vote is worthless..
They allowed the muslims to take over.. as the americans are allowing the insurgents to take over..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCfbYkXtHuA
nuff sed! Pass it on to the coexist sticker crowd, the deniers, the “why can’t we just get along” crowd.
Thank you for posting this link. This should be required reading for all FReepers. I think I’m in love with this girl.
I work in Afghanistan and my company has things like Youtube blocked.
Can you give me a short description?
Rand Slams Congress for Funding Egypt's Generals: 'How Does Your Conscience Feel Now?'Sen. Rand Paul is hammering his fellow senators for keeping billions in financial aid flowing to Egypt's military -- even as Cairo's security forces massacre anti-government activists. [by "anti-government activists" is meant church-burning Christian-murdering jihadists][Posted on 08/15/2013 5:44:10 PM PDT by Hoodat]
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