Obama And Romney Are Wrong: Outsourcing Is Actually America At Its Best

Forbes ^ | 07/28/2012 | Harry Binswanger

[central_va]

And you think China doesn't have at least a 10x bigger economy than the U.S.

This is not true. But they are working on it. Actually the GDP of China and USA are about the same size. They just have 4X the people we do.

[central_va]

Most cars in the US are domestically produced, even the foreign labels. I drive a Ford.

[central_va]

Most cars in the US are domestically produced, even the foreign labels. I drive a Ford.

[central_va]

I am not an economic idiot like you think. I know that there is a cost to domestic manufacturing that is higher per unit than having Chinese slaves produce them. IMO that cost varies between 5-10% per unit. It is not going to cost twice as much to manufacture in the USA because of increased labor costs. It can't because the cost of labor for each manufactured item only is only 10% (in average in the USA) of the retail price, so if produced in China at most it can save is 10%. But labor isn't completely free in China.

So what I am saying it is better for the country to pay the additional cost to for domestic production, which is really pennies on the dollar, to save US jobs.

You and rudeboy will not acknowledge there is a social and economic cost to outsourcing. There is huge personal cost if its your job outsourced. IMO the social/economic costs are greater than the few pennies per dollar playing footsies with the ChiComs.

[khelus]

Interesting response. Thanks. You have obviously researched behind the so-called 'Free Trade' agreements. There is a LOT to read and absorb and mull over.

As I understand it, the Third Way is technically global Fascism / Crony Capitalism in which there is a pretense of private ownership. In actuality there is an unholy alliance of big business and big government to micro manage the use of private property and prevent competition through regulations. All done by those arrogant enough to believe they are smart enough to defeat human nature and create paradise on earth.

I would not be surprised at disagreements as to the speed at which this New World Order under the Third Way is achieved and how the benefits are apportioned.

Speaking of Clinton, he has set up the Clinton Foundation which has an interesting list of donors and interesting focus on Global Health, Economic Inequality, Childhood Obesity, and Climate Change .

re: This is way too complicated to be settled here, I see. Personally there's scant chance that I can understand anything close to all the factors.. so IMO:

Stop helping to build the economy and the war-making powers of the Communist Party of Red China..

the bastards have killed an estimated 60 million Chinese citizens and..

Making them millionaires and billionaires ain't working.

I whole heartedly agree.

[khelus]

... there is a social and economic cost to outsourcing. There is huge personal cost if its your job outsourced. IMO the social/economic costs are greater than the few pennies per dollar playing footsies with the ChiComs.

That cost is reflected in the charts found here.

When look at the GDP remember that is includes government spending. IIRC it it currently over 40%.

[1rudeboy]

Oh, bunk. Every student of economics understands that there is a cost to everything. For example, those who believe that a product's price that is artificially increased via a tariff magically will decrease to its previous level as other producers step in do not.

[1rudeboy]

Conversely, a tariff placed on a product saves a number of jobs (hopefully) at a cost to society that far exceeds the cost of compensation for the jobs themselves, because the dollar amount collected by the tariff itself, and the higher prices paid by consumers, are so great.

And don't get me started on the dollar sent to Washington that results in $1.50 more being spent.

[khelus]

I came across three articles today that you might find interesting:

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/07/29/escape-from-economics/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/02/19/economists-in-denial/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/10/01/the-new-face-of-class-war/

Now I’s off to read another one that just caught my eye;

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/07/30/nationalize-money-not-banks-herman-daly/

[1rudeboy]

Damn. Why don’t you simply post from socialism.gov, and avoid the hassle?

[khelus]

Just saw your Invoice Love it!

You should get together with Gene Nelson

[Toddsterpatriot]

PCR was somebody, before the mental illness took its toll. The last article is hilarious!

Why should the public pay interest to the private banking sector to provide a medium of exchange that the government can provide at little or no cost?

I don't pay interest for the FRNs in my wallet. Do you? Where do you mail the check?

Why should seigniorage (profit to the issuer of fiat money) go largely to the private sector rather than entirely to the government (the commonwealth)?

The private sector doesn't mint our coins or issue our FRNs, so why would they earn seigniorage?

Keep fiat money, but move from fractional reserve banking to a system of 100% reserve requirements.

Great idea, who wants to earn interest from bank deposits or have the ability to borrow from a bank? No more mortgages will be a sure way to help home values improve.

This would put control of the money supply and seigniorage entirely with the government rather than largely with private banks.

Excellent! If we need a loan, we can just borrow from government. What could go wrong? (See the government issued student loan bubble for a clue).

Banks would no longer be able to live the alchemist’s dream by creating money out of nothing and lending it at interest.

Banks don't create money out of thin air, they create it out of customer deposits.

With 100% reserves every dollar loaned to a borrower would be a dollar previously saved by a depositor

Kinda like now, you silly doofus.

To make up for the decline and eventual elimination of bank- created, interest-bearing money, the government can pay some of its expenses by issuing more non interest-bearing fiat money.

Yes, let's eliminate bank lending so the government can run the printing press to pay for wasteful spending.

Returning to domestic institutions, the Treasury would replace the Fed (which is owned by and operated in the interests of the commercial banks).

Is that why the commercial banks got $1.6 billion in Fed dividends while the US Treasury got $76.9 billion last year?

It's been a while since I've said it, but it's still true, Paul Craig Roberts is an assclown.

[Toddsterpatriot]

I know that there is a cost to domestic manufacturing that is higher per unit than having Chinese slaves produce them. IMO that cost varies between 5-10% per unit.

In your opinion? Any data a little harder than that?

It can't because the cost of labor for each manufactured item only is only 10% (in average in the USA) of the retail price

Is that your opinion again?

You and rudeboy will not acknowledge there is a social and economic cost to outsourcing.

Yes, there is a cost to US unemployment. Just as there is a cost when the government imposes a tariff to protect a domestic producer. Look at the idiocy of our sugar quotas to see how that works.

There is huge personal cost if its your job outsourced.

Or when your job is eliminated because the government raised the price of the steel that's used to manufacture your product.

[1rudeboy]

Don’t forget, according to the “wisdom” on this thread, free-traders are Marxists, but their opponents can post from Counterpunch with impunity. Can we reform our school system now, please?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Counterpunch, standing athwart history yelling stop!

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Thanks for all the the links that you've provided.

China is a bubble..

I must have read/heard that somewhere I am not knowledgeable enough to judge. But I believe it and like it. Go directly to democracy after the crash and revolution? I don't think so. Back behind the Bamboo Curtain as the Maoists take over? More likely the latter.

Even as Mao was taking over China in the late 1940s my grandmother was telling me that China will rule the world. She was no fan of "agrarian reform" it's just what her Bible belt churches told her was God's punishment.

Well Grandma missed it by just that tiny bit.

[1rudeboy]

More like, standing atop history yelling, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

[1rudeboy]

Paranoia & Fantasy on the Right

The election season is upon us and along with it comes the standard Republican claims to be up against a powerful Democratic Party machine backed by the awesome clout of the “union bosses” of American labor. We have been told this endlessly by pundits on the reactionary right such as Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck – those happy to misrepresent and distort the long decline and near-extinction of the American labor movement.
www.counterpunch.org

[1rudeboy]

The Real Story Behind Issa v. Holder

All my life I would have sympathized with the Black man being hounded by a vicious Caucasian (who happens to be the richest man in the United States Congress). But watching Attorney General Eric Holder taking verbal abuse from Rep. Darrell Issa last week, all that came to mind were lines by Martin Niemoller . . . .
www.counterpunch.org

[khelus]

Enjoy!

Interesting analysis of China to ponder.