Obama And Romney Are Wrong: Outsourcing Is Actually America At Its Best

Forbes ^ | 07/28/2012 | Harry Binswanger

[SeekAndFind]

Mitt Romney and Barack Obama are currently fighting over who is the more patriotic. Obama slams Romney for having outsourced jobs to China during his Bain Capital days. Romney punches back by labeling Obama “Outsourcer in Chief.” The latest is that both John Boehner and Harry Reid are voicing outrage over America’s made-in-China Olympic uniforms. “Burn them!” thunders Reid.

Republicans and Democrats strangely agree that outsourcing is unpatriotic, and that the moral and patriotic thing to do is to “Hire American” and “Buy American.”

Well, no. Not in a thousand years. The fear of outsourcing and international trade is economic nonsense and moral blindness. More than that: this anti-profit attitude is un-American.

Despite the ongoing Europeanization of America, America still symbolizes the land of freedom, entrepreneurship, profit-making, above all, individualism.

But collectivism is the premise of “Hire/Buy American”: we are to view ourselves and others not as individuals, but as units of a nation. Businesses are urged to pay more in labor costs, simply to hire workers who are American; consumers are urged to forgo Walmart’s low prices, pay more, simply because the pricier goods were made by “our guys.” This is not rational patriotism, it is not Americanism, it's primitive tribalism.

American individualism means making buying decisions on the basis of economic merit, giving no regard to the nationality or race of the seller. Let’s not hide behind patriotic-sounding slogans. Let’s name things straight for a change: giving preference to American sellers over foreign sellers is the same mindless injustice as giving preference to sellers who are white over those who are black.

Economic nationalism is as morally outrageous as racism. Buying on the basis of nationality or race is the same collectivist evil: judging men and their products by the group from which they come, not by merit.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

At this point, it is merely a question of when.

China (already) exports more than we do. Has for two years.

[central_va]

Manufacturing is different, it is part of our national defense. It may be too late as it is. Once the leftists downsize the military, like they want too, and the manufacturing base is gone, there will be no more “arsenal of democracy”. Manufacturing has to be preserved in the USA. Only a traitor would think otherwise. The Free traitor is the fifth column. Funny how both the Free Traitor and the “greenie leftists” both hate domestic smoke stack industries, both for green reasons, money and “the environment”. LOL.

[1rudeboy]

Says the guy who thinks the U.S. corporate income tax rate is “somewhat high.”

[Toddsterpatriot]

Funny how both the Free Traitor and the “greenie leftists” both hate domestic smoke stack industries

I don't know any free traders who hate domestic smoke stack industries. I think we should cut corporate tax rates to 20% or lower. And that we should reduce ridiculous EPA regulations.

And if we really need a particular industry for defense, cut their tax rate to 0%. Doesn't sound like hate to me.

[rurgan]

In the past 30 years China's economy has grown an average of 10% per year , moving 300 million people into the middle class, 50,000 skyscrapers in the next 20 years etc..

The U.S. living standards have fallen during those 30 years yet debt has exploded at all levels, 116 trillion $ in unfunded liabilities, 16 trillion $ federal debt, U.S. cities declaring bankruptcy, many U.S. cities becoming hell holes, personal bankruptcy skyrocketing . How many consumer electronics ( like smart phones, PCS ) made in U.S.A. ? Zero made in U.S.A. most made in China. This U.S. debt is unimaginably high. Anyone who thinks the U.S. wont collapse under this debt is insane and not living in reality. When we actually produced something we paid down the ww2 debt now exploding debt will kill U.S..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7aXJ3VcmXw

China rose at our expense. Surely you free traitors can't say that the U.S. economy is better or bigger than China's. U.S.A is headed for collapse and at best will be a colony of China soon thanks to you free traitors.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2907789/posts

These 12 Hellholes Are Examples Of What The Rest Of America Will Look Like Soon

Do you want to see where this country is headed? If so, don't focus on the few areas that are still very prosperous. New York City has Wall Street, Washington D.C. has the federal government and Silicon Valley has Google and Facebook. Those are the exceptions. The reality is that most of the country has been experiencing a slow decline for a very long time and once thriving cities such as Gary, Indiana and Flint, Michigan have become absolute hellholes. They are examples of what the rest of America will look like soon. 60 years ago, most Americans were decent, hard working people and there were always good jobs available for anyone that was willing to roll up his or her sleeves and put in an honest day of work. But now all of that has changed. Over the past decade, tens of thousands of manufacturing facilities have shut down and millions of jobs have left the country. Cities such as Cleveland, Baltimore and Detroit were once shining examples of everything that was right about America, but now they stand out like festering sores.

[1rudeboy]

Anyone see the relation between the following two headlines currently in the sidebar?

U.S. Manufacturing Growth 2nd-Worst Post Recession
Car dealers fear Obama fuel standards will make new vehicles unaffordable

Hey, I have an idea: let's raise taxes!

[Toddsterpatriot]

If only we could put a 100% tariff on imported oil, all our problems would be solved.

[rurgan]

Raise taxes on china and illegals and lower them for Americans and U.S. companies who are here in the U..S. or better yet go back to the trade embargo on china that we had for 40 years and then the U.S. was actually rising.

You want to allow U.S. companies and Americans to import an unlimited number of immigrant workers also to provide their cheap services they offer? how would you like 2 billion immigrants to come to the U.s.A if we remove all immigration restrictions as you want to remove all trade restrictions ( allowing China to dump unlimited number of products they stole the tech from us to produce).

[rurgan]

Yes then maybe we’d produce our own U.S. energy as we the U.S. ,unlike china, we the U.S. have unlimited energy sources including oil, oil shale, coal,natural gas, nuclear etc.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, the best way to produce our own energy is to crush our economy! /idiocy off

[rurgan]

We have unlimited energy sources in the U.S. . It’s better to develop these energy source to create jobs and industry Here in the U.S.A. That’s better than importing anything. We have unlimited oil,oil shale , natural gas ,coal etc. And you free traitors call drilling for our own oil etc. you call this idiocy . look in the mirror.

[1rudeboy]

Now I want to remove all trade restrictions with China? Jeepers, where do you guys come up with this stuff?

If the stated policy aim is to save jobs and increase domestic manufacturing, then cut taxes across the board. Don't expect some government bureaucrat to choose which of your taxes he needs to raise, and which industry he wants to favor over another. Which is all tariffs do . . . even protectionists admit to as much.

[GlockThe Vote]

I disagree w this 1000000%.

[central_va]

I think we should cut corporate tax rates to 20% or lower, but until we reach that noble goal - if ever - I am totally cool with off shoring our entire manufacturing base to the third world and/or communist countries

Fixed with your true intent.

[1rudeboy]

Let's just say, for example, that the President places a moratorium on offshore drilling, and regulates the coal industry out of existence. How does placing a tariff on imported oil and imported coal increase domestic production?

We know that it will take more money out of your wallet and give it him . . . .

[central_va]

How does placing a tariff on imported oil and imported coal increase domestic production?

It causes inflation(pain) and unmasks the true costs of a stupid policy. Off shoring eliminates the inflation(pain) and is heroin to the economy. Tariffs restores the pain.

[1rudeboy]

And how does a higher rate of inflation increase domestic employment and production? Run it by me again.

[central_va]

And how does a higher rate of inflation increase domestic employment and production? Run it by me again

Sure it's simple, the high cost of energy, in this example, will cause the sheeple to actually react and apply political pressure on the professional political class. Then the stupid policy can be overturned and everything hopefully back to normal in the DOMESTIC energy sector. See wasn't that hard was it?

When politics gets involved in domestic commerce, the solution has to be political also. Running into the arms of Communists is not a solution.

[1rudeboy]

Apart from some periodic caterwauling about the Strategic Petroleum Reserve on the part of the professional political class, there is nothing in the record that indicates your theory works.

[1rudeboy]

And by that, I mean the greenies and the nimbys will continue along their path (and even welcome the higher prices), and the “drill here, drill now” folks would drill anyway in the absence of the higher prices.

[central_va]

there is nothing in the record that indicates your theory works. Research the USA, tariffs and the founding fathers.

Oh yeah on more thing, and free trade has sure pressured pols into lowering corp tax rates. /sarcasm

[1rudeboy]

Now that I think about it, a significant portion of our professional political class would use the higher oil prices to call for more solar power, wind power, etc.

And, our corporate income tax rate has fallen. Incidentally, during a period coinciding with free(r) trade. I'm not saying the two are directly correlated, but you don't appear to know what our corporate income tax rate is now, and what it used to be.

[khelus]

Thanks for the ping and posting of those facts. I can only make a few comments now because reality calls.

Those who promote off shoring, outsourcing, importing 'guest' labor and goods made by neo-slaves forget that Marx promoted 'Free Trade', i.e. the unfettered movement of capital, labor and goods devoid of consideration of ethics and patriotism as way to fast track the spread of global communism.

Unwittingly some who fancy themselves on the right side of the aisle have have fallen prey to Cultural Marxism's stories for the right that include free movement of goods, persons, and capital, harmonization of living standards, jobs Americans can't / won't do, compassionate conservatism, profits 'uber alles', yada, yada, yada... These stories have been leading us to the same place as the stories for those on the left side of the aisle: destruction of the American economy, security, traditional culture, values and its pesky middle class under the tyranny of global communism administered by the WTO, UN, and their affiliates.

The damage done over that last 30+ years has been hidden until recently by manipulation of basic government stats, access to below market cheap credit, cheap, poorly made consumer goods, and 'experts' touting debt as good.

The results can bee seen in the blue lines of the charts below:







As to regulations, some forget crony capitalism aka fascism. Large global corporations have no problems with regulations as long as they can lend their expertise to their creation. What a great way to suppress competition!

[1rudeboy]

The only people who believe that free trade will lead to a social revolution, as did Marx, are protectionists. And even not all protectionists are that stupid.

[3Fingas]

Agreed on all your points.

Free Trade is an article of faith to some on this site.
I don’t know how anyone can think allowing our country to be destroyed is a conservative principle.

America first in all things. Free trade among the states (the states of this republic). Favored trading relations with our best allies. This list can change with time but pretty much includes the major English-speaking countries, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (when they behave themselves). You could probably include Japan and a few other countries in the favored trading block. These allies have proven themselves over time. They deserve greater access to our markets. Bilateral trading relations (quid pro quo) with most other countries in the world. Moderate tariffs and bilateral agreements should be applied with this group. Finally, very limited trading and heavy tariffs with any other country not making the first two lists. My beliefs are the traditional view of trade which made this country strong. Sorry, it’s not a conservative principle to give favored trading status to countries who are hostile to our national security.

[1rudeboy]

The United States has free trade agreements with the following countries:

•Australia
•Bahrain
•Canada
•Chile
•Colombia
•Costa Rica
•Dominican Republic
•El Salvador
•Guatemala
•Honduras
•Israel
•Jordan
•Korea
•Mexico
•Morocco
•Nicaragua
•Oman
•Peru
•Singapore

[central_va]

Great post!

[Captain Peter Blood]

To write this kind of drivel is insane, are these the talking points of the Trilateral Commission???? No country can survive and prosper without a balanced economy and that means a strong manufacturing base.
Without a balanced economy there is no strong middle-class.
We cannot as a country have our GDP dependent on the consumer making up 70% of it by buying imported merchandise and we cannot be strong by trying to transition to a service economy.
I strongly feel a reset is coming, probably in the form of a economic collapse and/or a bond default.
China is slowing dramatically, Europe cannot buy it's goods and we won't be able either soon enough which means that China's big money surplus won't mean squat.

[ex-snook]

"Well, no. Not in a thousand years. The fear of outsourcing and international trade is economic nonsense and moral blindness. More than that: this anti-profit attitude is un-American. "

No Harry putting money before country is unpatriotic. This is patriotic.

[3Fingas]

Corrupt politicians of both parties have ceded authority to the World Trade Organization. We may not technically have free trade with China or other countries hostile to our national interests, but since we are now subject to the dictates of the WTO, that is the practical effect.

As for this list provided, some of these countries deserve a favored trading status with the US, but none should have unfettered access...nobody deserves that.

[bert]

Business is business and has nothing to do with patriotism.

Your assumption to the contrary is incorrect.

Profit is the source of everything American.

[DoughtyOne]

No one is arguing that trade with Germany would have prevented WWII. That is your straw-man argument.  But it was the argument in the day.  Churchill was telling folks to quit helping Germany build up it's military machine.  Nobody listened.  Sound familiar?  Evidently not.  I did introduce the concept.  Bad on me huh.  Bad on Churchill too.

I'm sorry that you take that observation as a personal insult. You shouldn't be so sensitive.  A personal insult?  Yes I did take it as one.  That's what was intended.  I got it dead on right.  And I called you for being the ass you were being.

Maybe you should reexamine the need to write BS like "people we have right here on this forum." Where are they? Why insult anyone specifically, when you can insult everyone who disagrees with you on any number of issues?  If I have experienced a certain thing on this forum, it's up to me to relate it to others as I see fit.  I have had conversations with Free Traitors here, and they refuse to believe that our current situation with China, could be similar to Europe's pre WWII dealings with Germany.  In fact, I'm having a conversation with a pin-head right now, that fails to make the connection.  I don't need to go any further than to point at you, as being the poster child for this type of neglectful thinking.

And finally, just to put the argument to rest: trade would not have prevented WWII, just as tariffs (or whatever) would not have prevented WWII.  Unbridled trade with Germany helped it build it's military machine.  Raw materials, technology, and an income stream, helped Germany just like it's now helping China.  Where are they?  Look in the mirror ass-bite.

And I certainly don't go running around these threads claiming that there are people "right here on this forum" arguing tariffs would have prevented WWII (well, I could, but it would be a straw-man argument).

Well petunia, perhaps you can link me to where I made a tariffs reference.  I don't recall having made one.

When the subject of whether it's a good thing to conduct the trade with China that we are, it is relevant to bring into focus all aspects of what that trade could facilitate.  I did so.  You don't like it.  Tough!

Hitler was going to push east, just as Stalin was going to push west. The only question was who would do so first.

Hitler went into action when he felt his war machine was strong enough to achieve what he wanted.  China will operate under the exact same principle.  Every nation that instigates hostilities does.

[central_va]

Business is business and has nothing to do with patriotism.

Wow, there it is in all its ugliness, a philosophy of sellout for a buck. Tariffs now before these gloBULList reduce us to a banana republic.

[DoughtyOne]

Free Traitors

Good one. Did you come up with it yourself? The only reason I ask is that it is an insult. Have you ever used it before? lol  I don't think I did come up with it.  It's a term I use not infrequently, because it is so fitting.  It's a big hoot for you, something quite funny, but when our young service members start dying in hostilities with a nation we more than any other nation, helped build it's military infrastructure, it will be folks like you who will suddenly express so much sympathy for them.  You could have helped fight to avoid that eventuality.  Instead you make sick jokes and laugh.

The thing that rankles me the most is that there "are people here on this forum" [snort] who would excuse Tiananmen Square, the EP-3 incident, ongoing cyberattacks, etc., if only we raised the price of ping-pong balls by ten cents. You might know some of them, they call themselves patriots.  It is amazing to me that you think with-holding trade with China would be forgiveness for these things, but granting unbridled trade to China is what, a penalty?

1RudeBoy, you aptly named yourself.  I think you could do better though.  1BlitheringIdiotBoy would be a more accurate alternative.

[DoughtyOne]

Gets my vote Rurgan. About all it will get you around here is a headache though.

[1rudeboy]

These people who disagreed with Churchill, are they posting here on the forum right now? Just another way of illustrating your strawman—don’t take it personally.

[3Fingas]

What you said....

Many have unwittingly embraced this very self-destructive philosophy.

What proof do you need? We used to have tariffs, sound money, and an America first trade policy. We used to make everything. Our economy was the envy of the world. Now, we are considered suckers by countries hungry for our markets using the same tactics we used in the past. We truly are nation which has forgotten our history.

[DoughtyOne]

I’m for free trade. What these folks are pushing is not free trade. There is a very high cost to what these folks are advocating. They are destroying our nation in this process.

We need workers. We need their tax income stream. Local communities need their commerce. Yes, why are our cities in such ruin? Gee, I wonder... /s

We have taken trillions of dollars out of our economy. We were running a trade deficit with China at about 800 billion a year before this downturn.

That amount spent here, would result in upwards of $4 trillion dollars in commerce, when the multiplier effect was taken into consideration.

I earn a dollar. I spend that dollar. The person I give that dollar to, spends it again. And the person he spends it with, spends it again. On it goes...

Taking trillions out of our economy year after year, and putting it in China’s pocket, has accomplished what? It has made China prosper, and our nation die off.

We have towns you and I have heard of all our lives, that are now being erased from the map. Homes are empty. The rest are in disrepair.

What we have is a modern day Potter’s town, only now it’s turning into Potter’s nation.

If we don’t get someone in the Oval Office who can turn this around, we’re done as a world power. More than that, we’re done as a culture, a people, an ideology.

China will become the new hegemon. Just wonderful!

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks Virgil I appreciate it.

[1rudeboy]

One more thing, if you call people who disagree with you on policy traitors, and “not infrequently,” then quit your bitching that you are being insulted in turn.

[bert]

Isolationist protectionist drivel......

The business of America is business.

[DoughtyOne]

Very good...

[central_va]

Washington, Madison, Monroe, Jefferson -- protectionists all.

Marx, Engals, bert -- Free Traders all.

[1rudeboy]

I just spent $1.79 for a 24oz. can of Foster’s (brewed in the USA, I should add). How much more should I have spent in order to ensure full employment?

[bert]

more drivel

[1rudeboy]

How do you tell a communist? Someone who reads Marx and Lenin. How do you tell an anti-communist? Someone who understands Marx and Lenin. (Paraphrasing Ronald Reagan).

[central_va]

There may be a tariff on beer imports. However if Fosters-Lager is brewed in the USA what would that have to do with the Free Trade argument? Nobody is suggesting a tariff on domestically brewed beer. Tariffs between US states is unconstitutional. Maybe your sniffing glue, not drinking.

[central_va]

your=you are

[DoughtyOne]

To: DoughtyOne

There ya' go again. You start off with a valid point, and finish with an insult. Does that make you feel smarter?

And I'm not "dismissing" anything other than your bone-headed comparison. As for the rest, if telling folks the obvious makes you feel bigger, go right ahead.

117 posted on Sunday, July 29, 2012 5:23:19 PM by 1rudeboy

Who was bitching?  LMAO  I responded by reminding you that you started off with the "STRAW-DOG" insult because you couldn't grasp the relevancy of the concept I introduced.

Let me guess.  Your favorite movie is the Wizard of Oz.  If I only had a brain...

[3Fingas]

Fosters? Your taste in beer undermines your entire argument. LOL....:-D

I don’t really think that imported/foreign owned breweries are the biggest cause of our insane trade deficits.