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DOJ: Family Can't Run Their Business as Catholics
Townhall.com ^ | July 25, 2012 | Terry Jeffrey

Posted on 07/25/2012 10:18:13 AM PDT by Kaslin

William, Paul and James Newland and their sister, Christine Ketterhagen, who together own Hercules Industries, have no right to conduct their family business in a manner that comports with their Catholic faith.

The federal government can and will compel them to either surrender their business or to engage in activities the Catholic faith teaches are intrinsically immoral.

This is exactly what President Barack Obama's Justice Department told a U.S. district court in a formal filing last week.

Never before has an administration taken such a bold step to strip Americans of the freedom of conscience -- a right for which, over the centuries, many Christian martyrs have laid down their lives, and which our Founding Fathers took great care to protect in a First Amendment that expressly guarantees the free exercise of religion.

As the Founders understood, no government has legitimate authority to take this right away, because it does not come from government. It comes from God. The very purpose of government is to protect this right. A government that seeks to strip it away from the people is by that very process stripping away its own legitimacy.

What we are seeing from the Obama administration today -- in its attack on religious liberty -- is simply evil. When government seeks to compel individuals to act against their consciences and to engage in activities that, if willfully done, would imperil their immortal souls, there is no other word for it.

The Newland family owns and operates Hercules Industries, a Colorado-based corporation that manufactures heating, ventilation and air-conditioning equipment. Through their hard work and dedication, and through their willingness to reinvest their own money in building their family business, they have managed to create jobs for 265 people while exerting a positive influence on the communities they serve.

The Newlands believe the morality the Catholic faith teaches them must animate their lives not only within the walls of the churches they attend, but literally everywhere else, as well -- in the way they deal with their families, their neighbors and, yes, their business.

The Newlands sued to protect their free exercise of religion in this regard because Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius issued a regulation, under the Obamacare law, that requires virtually all health care plans to cover -- without cost-sharing -- sterilizations, artificial contraception and abortifacients.

Under Obamacare, businesses that employ more than 50 people must provide their employees with insurance or pay a penalty, and the required insurance must include the mandated cost-sharing-free coverage for sterilizations, artificial contraception and abortifacients.

At Hercules Industries, the Newlands provide a generous self-insured health-care plan to their employees. It does not cover sterilization, artificial contraception or abortifacients.

"The Catholic Church teaches that abortifacient drugs, contraception and sterilization are intrinsic evils," says the Newlands' lawsuit.

"Consequently, the Newlands believe that it would be immoral and sinful for them to intentionally participate in, pay for, facilitate or otherwise support abortifacient drugs, contraception, sterilization, and related education and counseling as would be required by the Mandate, through their inclusion in health insurance coverage they offer at Hercules," says the suit.

The Catholic Bishops of the United States endorse this view. At a meeting in Atlanta last month, they unanimously adopted a resolution calling the HHS regulation an "unjust and illegal mandate" and a "violation of personal civil rights." They declared that the regulation created a class of Americans "with no conscience protection at all: individuals who, in their daily lives, strive constantly to act in accordance with their faith and moral values.

"They, too," said the bishops, "face a government mandate to aid in providing 'services' contrary to those values -- whether in their sponsoring of, and payment for, insurance as employers; their payment of insurance premiums as employees; or as insurers themselves -- without even the semblance of an exemption."

In a letter read during Sunday Mass in most dioceses around the country earlier this year, many of the nation's bishops flatly said: "We cannot -- we will not -- comply with this unjust law."

In response to the Newlands' complaint that ordering them to violate the teachings of the Catholic Church in the way they run their business is a violation of their First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion, the Obama administration told the federal court that a private business has no protection under the First Amendment's free exercise clause -- especially if the business is incorporated.

"The First Amendment Complaint does not allege that the company is affiliated with a formally religious entity such as a church," said the Justice Department. "Nor does it allege that the company employs persons of a particular faith. In short, Hercules Industries is plainly a for-profit, secular employer."

"By definition," said the Justice Department, "a secular employer does not engage in any 'exercise of religion.'"

"It is well established that a corporation and its owners are wholly separate entities, and the Court should not permit the Newlands to eliminate that legal separation to impose their personal religious beliefs on the corporate entity or its employees," said the Justice Department.

This is just as if the Justice Department were to tell a family owned newspaper that it must publish editorials calling for a confiscatory estate tax, basing its coercion of the newspaper on the supposition (which lawyers for the Alliance Defending Freedom argue DOJ is by analogy making) that as a for-profit secular and incorporated employer, the paper has no First Amendment right to freedom of speech.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: anticatholicbigotry; bhodoj; catholics; religiousliberty; stockpilesong; thestockpilesong
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1 posted on 07/25/2012 10:18:16 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

There are things happening in this country, especially as regards Christians, that decent people would never have imagined could ever happen. Evil is becoming more and more emboldened.


2 posted on 07/25/2012 10:24:13 AM PDT by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: Kaslin

There are things happening in this country, especially as regards Christians, that decent people would never have imagined could ever happen. Evil is becoming more and more emboldened.


3 posted on 07/25/2012 10:24:13 AM PDT by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: Kaslin

“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” - DOI, 1776


4 posted on 07/25/2012 10:26:41 AM PDT by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: Kaslin

Nothing at all surprising here. Govt for some time has been about forcing their edicts rather than relying on consent of the people to conduct their affairs. What will be surprising is the time when We the People stop knuckling under enmass.


5 posted on 07/25/2012 10:29:40 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: Kaslin

Well, we’ve know this was coming for almost 50 years.


6 posted on 07/25/2012 10:32:04 AM PDT by chesley (God's chosen instrument - the trumpet)
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To: Kaslin

If they don’t want to or can’t continue to fight, I would suggest subdividing their business and possibly making some employees independent contractors to keep under the 50 employee rule per business.


7 posted on 07/25/2012 10:32:24 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Kaslin

How many of those protesting the “unjust laws” voted for the very people who enacted them? The chickens are coming home to roost.


8 posted on 07/25/2012 10:33:15 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever (Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord!)
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To: Kaslin

I have heard personally from two small business owners (pretty much all that I know - 100%) that they will be following this family. One has already told his employees that he cannot provide health insurance if the bill stands (even to himself).


9 posted on 07/25/2012 10:36:30 AM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Kaslin

First Obama came for the Catholics...


10 posted on 07/25/2012 10:37:52 AM PDT by Signalman
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To: mrsmel

Half of Christians will vote for Obama anyway.


11 posted on 07/25/2012 10:41:20 AM PDT by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: Mi-kha-el
"Half of Christians will vote for Obama anyway.

As opposed to voting for the Mormon who wants the same things?

12 posted on 07/25/2012 10:49:27 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Kaslin
"By definition," said the Justice Department, "a secular employer does not engage in any 'exercise of religion.'"

"It is well established that a corporation and its owners are wholly separate entities, and the Court should not permit the Newlands to eliminate that legal separation to impose their personal religious beliefs on the corporate entity or its employees," said the Justice Department.

But Sharia law is gonna be just peachy!

Sorry about this Tennessee...

In his attack on ECD and Samar Ali, Degan is echoing those groups that have attacked the governor’s appointment, largely because Ali is Muslim. She was a White House Fellow in 2010-11 and her resume includes work as a lawyer in a U.S. law firm’s Abu Dhabi office that involved Sharia-compliant business transactions – which is routine in many Middle Eastern countries.

Degan spent eight minutes, in a 42-minute recorded interview, talking about Sharia and Ali. Among his assertions:

--"Our governor several weeks ago appointed Samar Ali straight from the Obama administration to the top position in the Tennessee economic development department . . . so we’re preparing our state for Sharia money to come in."

http://www.politifact.com/tennessee/statements/2012/jul/24/woody-degan/candidate-vanderbilt-state-sharia/

.

13 posted on 07/25/2012 10:50:30 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Kaslin

If Obama knew enough Latin to translate “casus belli”, he would be a lot more worried. When a government that is supposed to derive its just powers from the consent of the governed orders individuals to violate deeply held religious beliefs, that government action has crossed a clear line. The American government is supposed to be good, not evil, but that belief on my part no longer matches reality.


14 posted on 07/25/2012 10:51:42 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: DannyTN

Whether Romney believes int eh same things is not the issue. Romney has said that he is now pro-life (Reagan came around and was a staunch pro-life believer after following Holloyweird and being for abortions). Romney would never legislate the same as 0bama and force people who have beliefs to go against those beliefs in a mandate similar to 0bamacare. 0bama is dangerous as he wants to transform this country into a socialist utopia. Romney wants free enterprise and is much more closely aligned to the ideals of our founders.


15 posted on 07/25/2012 10:56:14 AM PDT by kevinm13 (Tim Geithner is a tax cheat. Manmade "Global Warming" is a HOAX!)
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To: DannyTN

Whether Romney believes in the same things is not the issue. Romney has said that he is now pro-life (Reagan came around and was a staunch pro-life believer after following Holloyweird and being for abortions). Romney would never legislate the same as 0bama and force people who have beliefs to go against those beliefs in a mandate similar to 0bamacare. 0bama is dangerous as he wants to transform this country into a socialist utopia. Romney wants free enterprise and is much more closely aligned to the ideals of our founders.


16 posted on 07/25/2012 10:56:42 AM PDT by kevinm13 (Tim Geithner is a tax cheat. Manmade "Global Warming" is a HOAX!)
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To: Kaslin

But if they didn’t build the business themselves, then other people must have given them help. So therefore corporations are people and they should have their religious liberty protected.


17 posted on 07/25/2012 10:57:24 AM PDT by ExxonPatrolUs (Gov The People, Buy The People, Bore The People.)
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To: Kaslin

Interesting article. The author doesn’t seem to recognize that he’s bumping the controversy up a notch.

AFAIK all the claims that this is a violation of religious liberty have been with regard to religious organizations other than those that are specifically churches. Hospitals, schools, shelters, colleges, etc.

This article claims that the personal religious beliefs of the owners of a completely secular business should receive similar privilege. While perhaps a valid position, it is certainly an expansion of the issue.

I wonder how the author would react to the Jehovah’s Witness business owner who buys an insurance policy for his employees that won’t cover blood transfusions.


18 posted on 07/25/2012 10:58:18 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Kaslin
This is the type of case that should prompt an open, public and unequivocal statement from the Roman Catholic Church to Kathy Sebelius:

You will stand down on this issue and refrain from harassing faithful Catholics who are attempting to live their lives according to the well-documented directives of their faith, or you are an enemy of this Divine institution and therefore a minion of Satan.

19 posted on 07/25/2012 11:00:49 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Kaslin

We lost this fight during the 1960s under the guise of Civil Rights legislation.

Listen, dumb rednecks not allowing blacks to eat in their restaurants was certainly despicable and insulting, but when the government said they HAD to serve them, or anybody, they were no longer THEIR restaurants. The government shouldn’t have made it a matter of law, and I still think laws like that are unconstitutional as they violate free association.

Soon they’ll make the same argument about marrying gays. Priests, reverends and rabbis will HAVE to.


20 posted on 07/25/2012 11:00:56 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Alas Babylon!
Actually, you have the 1960s history regarding civil rights all wrong. The Federal statute really wasn't aimed at forcing private businesses to treat blacks and whites equally, though that was surely an intended consequence. The real issue was that many states had laws that required private business owners to treat blacks and whites separately -- which is a whole different story.
21 posted on 07/25/2012 11:04:37 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: kevinm13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI

Romney’s a lying sack of shit who will say whatever he has to in order to get elected.


22 posted on 07/25/2012 11:07:00 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Sherman Logan

Or how about a Christian Scientist business owner who buys an insurance policy for his employees that will only cover prayer for medical conditions?

Why the hell does an employer have to provide health insurance anyway? It is a perk that should be up to the employee and the employer to work out without government mandates that force part time work or contractor status on people.


23 posted on 07/25/2012 11:08:04 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Sherman Logan

“I wonder how the author would react to the Jehovah’s Witness business owner who buys an insurance policy for his employees that won’t cover blood transfusions.”

It’s still an employee benefit. What’s wrong with an employer choosing to voluntarily go above and beyond what they are required to do?


24 posted on 07/25/2012 11:08:38 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Alas Babylon!

“Soon they’ll make the same argument about marrying gays. Priests, reverends and rabbis will HAVE to.”

That is what they do up in Canada.


25 posted on 07/25/2012 11:10:58 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: kevinm13
"Romney has said that he is now pro-life
Romney will say anything to get elected. He's Mr. Etch-a-sketch.

(Reagan came around and was a staunch pro-life believer after following Holloyweird and being for abortions).
Romney is not Reagan. Reagan was sincere in his beliefs and didn't hesitate to articulate them. Romney waits till the polls are in, and says one thing and does another. Romney's actions speak louder than his words.

Romney would never legislate the same as 0bama and force people who have beliefs to go against those beliefs in a mandate similar to 0bamacare.
Except he did. Romneycare did just that attempted to force Catholic hospitals to do abortions.
Romneycare Required Anti-Catholic Regulations Like Obamacare's

0bama is dangerous as he wants to transform this country into a socialist utopia.
Romney wants the same thing. Romney's father said we should listen to Alinsky. Romney did the model for big government healthcare. Romney was in favor of mandates. Romney didn't know a republican before he ran as a republican.
Romney is also dangerous in that Mormons are seeking control of the government. Mormon bishop's daughter spills Romney's 'secrets' ...

There's not a choice this time. I'm voting third party.

26 posted on 07/25/2012 11:12:18 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Sherman Logan
This article claims that the personal religious beliefs of the owners of a completely secular business should receive similar privilege. While perhaps a valid position, it is certainly an expansion of the issue.

Actually no, you got it backwards and seem to buy into the false premise the left pushes.

The supposed expansion is actually a God given Constitutionally guaranteed individual right (religious liberty) -a right that naturally extends to control of property e,g business...

It is the government overlords that suggest ONLY government recognized religious organizations get exemption. In essence the government is attempting to limit religious freedom...

27 posted on 07/25/2012 11:18:55 AM PDT by DBeers (†)
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To: Kaslin
What has been telling is how quiet the Catholic Bishops have been on the employer mandate - so long as it is not directly put upon them.
28 posted on 07/25/2012 11:24:53 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan

So, I can request a bacon, egg and cheese sandwhich at the local halal grocery now?


29 posted on 07/25/2012 11:30:52 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: Last Dakotan

So, I can request a bacon, egg and cheese sandwhich at the local halal grocery now?


30 posted on 07/25/2012 11:30:52 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: kevinm13

You’re joking right? Willard Romney forced Catholic hospitals to provide morning after pills to rape victims. Knowing full well that that the Catholic Church does not believe in abortion, contraception and sterlization.
He also forced Catholic Charities to shut down their adoption agency because the Catholic Church does not believe in homosexual adoption.

Like Obama, Romney’s God is the State.
Freedom of conscience, my arse!

Willard is a liar and a deceiver just like his...


31 posted on 07/25/2012 11:32:45 AM PDT by billys kid ("Bury me on my head for one day this world will be upside down." (Diogenes))
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To: firebasecody

yeah, and a sandwich too!


32 posted on 07/25/2012 11:33:07 AM PDT by firebasecody (Orthodoxy, proclaiming the Truth since AD 33)
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To: Kaslin

Rev.Martin Niemoller, (1945) [he served seven years in a concentration camp]
“In Germany, they first came for the communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Catholic. Then they came for me and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.”

Who will speak for you?


33 posted on 07/25/2012 11:43:23 AM PDT by oldfart (Obama nation = abomination. Think about it!)
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To: Kaslin
"It is well established that a corporation and its owners are wholly separate entities, and the Court should not permit the Newlands to eliminate that legal separation to impose their personal religious beliefs on the corporate entity or its employees," said the Justice Department.

Jurisdictional differences: persons vs. corporations. The Justice Department is basing it's entire prosecution on that difference. Shouldn't you understand exactly why that is so important concerning Obamacare?

Then please - please - read and learn what this fight is really all about:

How Chief Justice Roberts Saved America

34 posted on 07/25/2012 11:50:49 AM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Sherman Logan
This article claims that the personal religious beliefs of the owners of a completely secular business should receive similar privilege. While perhaps a valid position, it is certainly an expansion of the issue. I wonder how the author would react to the Jehovah’s Witness business owner who buys an insurance policy for his employees that won’t cover blood transfusions.

I will be disappointed (not for the first time) if the free exercise of religion is restricted in what used to be the United States of America. If a JW wants to offer a limited health plan, I don't see why that is the government's business. Private individuals can choose whether to work there or elsewhere. If a Catholic individual refuses to participate in murdering innocent babies (which is exactly how the Church and many Catholics view abortion), attempting to compel that individual to pay for a gravely evil act is a disgusting overreach by a government that has chosen evil both in the particulars of compelling abortion and more generally in violating the God-given rights of those who used to be free citizens of a free country.

This command from HHS is shockingly arrogant, inherently un-American, and evil. If this leads to unrest, I will not be on the side of those who not only support the killing of innocent unborn children but also attempt to force others to participate in that crime against the innocent. The only answer is to repeal ObamaCare and replace it with a free market solution. Socialized medicine can only lead to higher costs for worse service and a dramatic slowdown in the rate of medical advancements. Socialized medicine can only lead to arrogant commands like this one, in which an amoral bureaucrat issues decrees without regard to the needs, desires, and values of individual subjects of our Dear Leader.

35 posted on 07/25/2012 12:01:05 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Mi-kha-el

“Half of Christians will vote for Obama anyway.”

ONe can include lots and lots of Catholics in that;
lots of ‘em.

IMHO


36 posted on 07/25/2012 12:05:38 PM PDT by ripley
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To: Alas Babylon!

I have been saying for several years that ALL churches should issue edicts that they do not perform civil marriage ceremonies. Churches conduct only ceremonies of Holy Matrimony. Same sex coupling is not holy, what can the govt say about that? Nothing! Catholic Churches do not perform ceremonies for non catholic couples, what is the difference? Seem to me if they7 want to take a stand before they are forced to, that would be the way to go.


37 posted on 07/25/2012 12:25:53 PM PDT by gidget7 ("When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself as public property." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Kaslin; mrsmel

The way he’ll really get at the Catholic Church and other Christians in his second term is “gay marriage,” which he will try to force all churches to perform. In the case of the Catholic Church, he’ll also go for discrimination because the Church doesn’t ordain women.

Count on it.

All the property that he seizes will probably go to the Episcopalians...or possibly to churches that are members of the WCC.


38 posted on 07/25/2012 12:28:29 PM PDT by livius
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To: Kaslin

So does anyone not believe that their is a war on religion?

Especially the Catholic religion?


39 posted on 07/25/2012 12:53:35 PM PDT by History Repeats (Drink plenty of TEA, but avoid the Koolaid.)
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To: Kaslin

When it comes to this extreme violation of my own ethics, I will disobey the State pig. I will keep doing my business until they put me in jail and when I get out of jail, I will continue to conduct my business in accordance with my own ethics. They can arrest me again and put me in jail again and when I get out... until I die. So help me God.


40 posted on 07/25/2012 1:13:16 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
The Newland family owns and operates Hercules Industries, a Colorado-based corporation that manufactures heating, ventilation and air-conditioning equipment. Through their hard work and dedication, and through their willingness to reinvest their own money in building their family business, they have managed to create jobs for 265 people while exerting a positive influence on the communities they serve.

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


41 posted on 07/25/2012 1:35:11 PM PDT by NYer (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: Kaslin
catholics put obama into office. catholics pushed for nationalized healthcare. Some of us told the bishops this would happen. they didn't listen.

So, really, it's a bitch when the Church's worst enemy is the Church.

42 posted on 07/25/2012 2:42:45 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (If Bill Ayers had a son, he'd look like James Holmes.)
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To: Kaslin; johngrace

The Catholics can’t run a business? Yet the Cathy family can run Chick-fil A


43 posted on 07/25/2012 4:42:46 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: billys kid
You’re joking right? Willard Romney forced Catholic hospitals to provide morning after pills to rape victims. Knowing full well that that the Catholic Church does not believe in abortion, contraception and sterlization. He also forced Catholic Charities to shut down their adoption agency because the Catholic Church does not believe in homosexual adoption.

And you have proof of this?

44 posted on 07/25/2012 5:00:57 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: the invisib1e hand

I am Catholic and I never voted for the rat party and their candidates, and never will


45 posted on 07/25/2012 5:03:38 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: the invisib1e hand

I am Catholic and I never voted for the rat party and their candidates, and never will


46 posted on 07/25/2012 5:04:08 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: DannyTN
There's not a choice this time. I'm voting third party.

Good; you have my support -- even/especially if others will ridicule you for it.

47 posted on 07/25/2012 5:25:40 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: mnehring
If they don’t want to or can’t continue to fight, I would suggest subdividing their business

The contraception mandate remains a gross violation of their right to practice religion no matter how they respond to it.

48 posted on 07/25/2012 5:36:16 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Not arguing that point, only suggesting how a business can survive in face of such an attack.


49 posted on 07/25/2012 5:42:36 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring

I understand that for some businesses keeping each unit count under 50 might be the only option.

But consider that, first, this puts a limit on how big they can grow, because beyond 5-10 units the business as a whole becomes ungovernable. Some businesses want to grow big to attract large customers, secure large loans, etc. They will have to foreclose on these opportunities by breaking up.

Second, that may expose them to other charges, for example, that the breakup is only for the purposes of evading the law. Obamacare is not the only law with small business exemptions; there are various regulatory obligations that kick in beyond 50 employees. They get a huge legal exposure if they break up without creating truly independent units.

Finally, if this law passes legal scrutiny in principle, the matter to adjust the employee limit downward becomes trivial. Soon, they will have to break up again.

Their real morally acceptable options are fight, sell or liquidate.


50 posted on 07/25/2012 6:11:44 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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