The Dream Is Dying

AT ^ | 7-21-12 | Kenneth L Hanson

[Dysart]

BREAK

Tell a story? Well, there are a lot of us these days who have stories to tell. And far from reflecting unity, purpose, and optimism, these are testimonials to another sad reality: the "American dream" -- at least under the Obama administration -- is dying.

My story is not that special, though it is unique in some ways. My wife is a medical doctor from the former Soviet Union -- as smart as she is beautiful. A surgeon by training (holding a Ph.D. in medicine on top of her M.D.), not only is she extremely capable as a hands-on physician, but she is also a businesswoman. Being a doctor has always meant everything to her, but she also knew that state-employed doctors in Russia earn on average only about $400 a month. She, however, had enough of an entrepreneurial spirit that, after practicing many years in emergency rooms and in cardiovascular surgery, she established her own plastic surgery clinic in the heart of Siberia.

Over time, she was grossing a "respectable" $2,000 a month. When we married and she came to America, I was thrilled to bring her to the "land of opportunity," where, as a doctor, she could earn multiple times her Russian income.

[Dysart]

The truth is, the new health care law (now upheld by the Supreme Court) isn't about providing medical care to the millions who can't afford it. It's about creating enough phony "compassion," via the biggest bloated entitlement program ever invented, to buy the votes of the "dependent class" and forge a permanent socialist/Marxist power bloc that will indeed "fundamentally transform" America.

[foreverfree]

bump

[ripley]

The American Dream may be dying but the dream of a
Marxist state has begun to flourish with the latest Supreme Court decision.

IMHO

[ottbmare]

The woman who cleans the office where I work is from Eastern Europe. She is a licensed vet in her country and had her own practice but can’t get accredited here. Very smart, determined, hard-working. Entrepreneurial enough to start her own cleaning business that now services several office buildings and employs a number of people (all LEGAL immigrants). I’m trying to figure out how to make friends with her because we are kindred spirits, but she works until 1 in the morning so socializing is difficult.

[Wings-n-Wind]

[adorno]

The writer, Dr. Kenneth L. Hanson, decries the fact that, his Russian wife doctor, can’t even get started in the U.S. because, she first needs to get into a residency program. Then, he condemns Obama and Obamacare for not creating some program where his wife could get into a residency program. So, the good doctor is condemning Obama and Obamacare, because, it’s not producing the results that would get his wife into practicing medicine here in the U.S. It sounds like, if Obamacare could get his wife a residency and into practicing medicine, he wouldn’t be as negative about Obamacare. In essence, Obamacare is bad, simply because, his wife isn’t getting the results he and his wife want.

[Dysart]

That’s a curious takeaway. My read of it is he is highlighting the barriers to entry for providers created by the existing health care bureaucracy and is pointing toward the magnifying effects of expanding it- Oabamcare. And he’s plainly correct.

[don-o]

I guess it’s just me, but “American Dream” has always grated on me. What about “American Opportunity”?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Adorno, you're making a too-broad and off-centered generalization. Dr. Handon clearly is in favor of entrepreneurial medicine. He explicitly states that the residency requirement shouldn't exist at all for experienced doctors from other countries. He brings up the fact that Obamacare could have created more residency programs, only to show the hypocrisy and/or incompetency of Obamacare.

Context, adorno.

[yldstrk]

my neighbors dad

same deal, can get credentialed

however ‘professor”, seems like maybe YOU will be the one that has to move to Europe now, do you think you will automatically get to “profess” in their universities? Seems like a little research would have been in order prior to you luring her here with promises of supporting you in the lifestyle to which you would like to be accustomed.

[Fat Tiger]

You can’t kill the American dream.

The important question is, what will it take for “the sleeper to awaken”

(apologies Frank Herbert).

[Dysart]

Well, it is. Historically the Dream has been about, and of, Opportunity.

[Justa]

The dream has become a delusion.

[adorno]

Context, adorno.

Yeah, context. Which is precisely why I commented the way I did after reading the whole article.

His wife is eminently qualified to work as a doctor in the U.S., and there are barriers preventing her from getting into the practice, including the unavailability of residency openings throughout the U.S.

Most of the doctor's remarks do attack Obamacare, however, this portion of his remarks are not exactly about how damaging Obamacare would be: Now, wouldn't one imagine that if the administration were really serious about this, the first thing they would have done would be to take some of that initial trillion dollars of "stimulus" money and fast-track the creation of new residency programs for all the doctors trying to get their licenses? Maybe they would even eliminate some of the residency requirements altogether and foster more reciprocity agreements, so that more foreign-trained medical graduates could legally work in this country.

To me, that sounds like the doctor is saying, Obamacare would not have been so bad, if only some of the stimulus money had been used to facilitate the creation of new residency openings, where his wife might then have a chance to start towards practicing medicine in the U.S. That to me sounds like, if only Obama had made things easier for his wife, things might not seem as damaging as they do now. It's all a matter of, "what's in it for me (or my wife)".

Question:

Does anybody believe that, if the careers of doctors were not as threatened by Obamacare as they are from the law as written, that those doctors would care about how damaging Obamacare would otherwise be to the economy and to healthcare in general? In other words, if doctors were guaranteed that, their careers wouldn't be affected in any way, and the only effects would be to the healthcare industry and to the economy and to patients, would the doctors and doctors to be, express as much concern as they are now? Sure, there would be a certain percentage who would care about how the patients would be affected, but, in general, would most doctors care, if their careers were basically unaffected?

[Dysart]

You can’t kill the American dream.

That depends on your definition. My understanding has always been about the equality of opportunity for all to live and provide for themselves and their families free from central govt control.

There are means of destroying such opportunity, so it can be effectively annihilated. Certainly it exists rarely outside our borders, and don't make the mistake of believing it can't happen here. A tyrant is working earnestly to make it happen: That is his dream.

[Dysart]

In other words, if doctors were guaranteed that, their careers wouldn't be affected in any way, and the only effects would be to the healthcare industry and to the economy and to patients, would the doctors and doctors to be, express as much concern as they are now?

Your hypothetical is specious. Doctors are part of the healtchare industry.

[PGalt]

It's about creating enough phony "compassion," via the biggest bloated entitlement program ever invented, to buy the votes of the "dependent class" and forge a permanent socialist/Marxist power bloc that will indeed "fundamentally transform" America.

Well-stated.

Everthing about socialism is sham and affectation. - 23.11 Ch23 Evil "Economic Harmonies" - Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

"Entitlement programs" is a euphemism for Socialist programs

Above all, if you wish to be strong, begin by rooting out every particle of socialism that may have crept into your legislation. This will be no light task. - The Law; Frederic Bastiat 1801-1850

[LibsRJerks]

The doc I know in whose practice I’m receiving my training is moving on to other things — a concierge service, in fact — where he can serve “the rich” and forget about this whole government healthcare crap.

The good doctors will be around — you just won’t be able to afford to see them.

[adorno]

Doctors are part of the healtchare industry.

Well, duh!

But, the question still remains.

Being part of a the bigger picture that is the healthcare industry, does not preclude the fact that, most doctors are in the field to look after themselves, and the industry is just part of "the work environment".

If Obamacare were to suddenly influence their industry in a negative way, but, not the doctors' practices, would doctors be as concerned about what Obamacare does to the country and economy and patients? IOW, if Obamacare promises to take care of doctors, and guarantees that they'll have a great rich and rewarding career, while Obamacare becomes the "health industry's replacement", would doctors, or at least most of them, be as concerned as many seem to be now?

[Malesherbes]

Our hospitals are loaded with foreign trained physicians, some of them speaking fractured English. How did they get past the residency requirement?

[Dysart]

I have no idea where you're going with this.

Unless you're asserting Physicians have self-interest and, that they, unlike every other industry, should not. This nullifies their objections to it in your view? How very collectivist of you! The truth is industry insiders are best poised to assess it, and the impact of legislative edicts. You are both impugning the author and his wife's profession's motives without addressing the merits of...well..anything substantive. Apparently, since you go after them personally I conclude you're not fond of physicians. Fine. Maybe your last prostrate exam was traumatizing. I joke, but you see how things deteriorate when you head to the sewer, and make it personal. If you can make a coherent argument for Obamacare, go ahead.

But you do realize, I hope, that the author's perspective is Obamacare is emblematic of the larger picture of our overall current and future condition, which is barreling toward greater state control, and away from personal liberty. Refer to the title for guidance.

[fireman15]

One has to wonder how much of the “residency” requirement for doctors was created to protect patients; how much of it was meant to provide hospitals with cheap help from trained people; and how much of it was meant to protect doctors from competition from eager qualified new people.

I have an example from my own profession to illustrate. Many years ago when I was first hired; one could be propoted to lietenant after three years on the job. It is now five years since the test is only given every two to three years this really means up to eight years. Supposedly this is for safety. But if someone has 20 years on some other department and has written books and has a degree there still is no exception made. It is not for safety; it is a union thing. I am pretty sure that the residency deal for doctors is similar.

[Dysart]

I don’t think you’re off target. Residency programs should be reformed. Actually this will forced upon them; and we can only hope the changes are for the better as demand for services skyrockets. It may not be.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"In general, would most doctors care, if their careers were basically unaffected? "

Yes, I think. Basing it on an admittedly small sample: my primary care physician, my rheumatologist, and my orthopedic surgeon --- the doctors with whom I have personal contact.

[Dysart]

Our hospitals are loaded with foreign trained physicians, some of them speaking fractured English. How did they get past the residency requirement?

Their country of origin. Special status.

[kabumpo]

Actually, it’s the AMA that makes it so difficult and expensive for foreign-trained doctors to qualify here.

[Dysart]

It’s my view of the article that the author was decrying the existing bureaucracy and how OC will expand upon it, not that OC created the entry barriers.

[kabumpo]

Yes, it’s the AMA.

[adorno]

You’re jumping to conclusions and making too many assumptions.

First off, where in my remarks do I sound “collective”? That’s a very dumb assumption, or a jump to a conclusion which is not merited at all. I would be the first one to attack Obamacare, and any of its supporters, as being socialist or big government advocates.

I’m only questioning the veracity of the “good doctor”, because, he is the one who is approaching Obamacare and the stimulus as, not having done enough for his wife’s future as a doctor in the U.S. If he had not brought up his wife’s predicament, and how the stimulus and Obamacare were of no help, then the rest of his statements would have had a lot more credibility. So, the question, again, is, if the wife had received the help she needed, from the stimulus and/or Obamacare, would he still have issued his negative remarks about the stimulus or Obamacare?

When it comes to current doctors and medical students, I’ve met a few whose main concern was, how Obamacare would affect their future. Granted that, each person has to look out for himself, but, in the medical profession, supposedly, the patients’ concerns were supposed to be the primary concern; either that, or the Hippocratic oath has very little meaning in current times.

Regarding Obamacare, I’m the first one to call it a monstrosity, and a destructive force, which will destroy this country a lot faster than the current big government social programs already in full implementation. My question is still, would people, on their own personal level, not mind Obamacare as much, if they were guaranteed to continue with their rich and rewarding careers?

The writer/doctor, inserted his wife into the article/discussion, and his approach took a personal angle, where, at least part of his motives, have to be questioned.

[Dysart]

Each dr’s postion is unique on the issue. Not clear why this matters to you deeply. Traveling and not able to elaborate too much, but your focus on their personal stake isnt understood or compelling to me, but noted.

[Dysart]

First off, where in my remarks do I sound “collective”? That’s a very dumb assumption, or a jump to a conclusion which is not merited at all.

Not really. When you expressed concern over their individual liberty (which includes their economic freedom and pursuit of happiness.. sound familiar?) vs the interests of overall society, citing the economy, hc industry, and patients. Of course physicians are elements of the hc industry and hc is approaching 1/5 of the economy so they're intertwined and that question is moot. Clearly your concern was tinged with collectivism, you just didn't realize it.

If he had not brought up his wife’s predicament, and how the stimulus and Obamacare were of no help, then the rest of his statements would have had a lot more credibility.

He was using his wife's predicament to illustrate the larger issues to which we are all exposed-- a common literary device. Would you have preferred a "composite character?" :) And I think you unintentionally miscast his perspective as someone else did earlier. A closer reading should reveal he asserts that OC will pile on more regulations and intensify existing problems. In the next quote you indicate that you have long...in fact, being among the "first," to recognize and oppose this very legislation and its destructive ramifications.

Regarding Obamacare, I’m the first one to call it a monstrosity, and a destructive force, which will destroy this country a lot faster than the current big government social programs already in full implementation

So, you too, by your admissions oppose OC, but you're suspicious of providers who feel as you do.

[adorno]

Each dr’s postion is unique on the issue. Not clear why this matters to you deeply.

It's the hypocrisy and self-interest which sends a couple of red flags about the veracity of the doctor. Apparently, you can't see it, or don't understand it, or are willing to overlook it.

[Dysart]

But you're free not engage in commerce with the Dr if you so choose, as far as I know, anyway.

Self-interest isn't a bad thing in conservative/libertarian schools of thought. And as life goes on you'll find pockets of hypocrisy abound. That's the way it is, we learn to accept it.

[adorno]

First off, where in my remarks do I sound “collective”? That’s a very dumb assumption, or a jump to a conclusion which is not merited at all.

Not really.

I stand by my statements, and you still don't have good reason to twist what I said into some perception of "collectivism".

When you expressed concern over their individual liberty (which includes their economic freedom and pursuit of happiness.. sound familiar?) vs the interests of overall society, citing the economy, hc industry, and patients.

You should be working for Obama and the democrats, because, you have a talent for twisting what is said into something completely different and devious.

Clearly your concern was tinged with collectivism, you just didn't realize it.

Yet, I'm probably one of the most ardent opponents of any kind of government program, or socialized spending for "the good of the people", which ALWAYS comes back to destroy an economy and a country. But, you, clearly, are into just twisting what is said into something that suits your way of thinking, with no attempt to follow exactly what it was that I was trying to say. Like I said, you would make a good "minister of information" for the democrats and Obama. Perhaps you could apply for Obama's press secretary, if Obama does get another 4 years.

If he had not brought up his wife’s predicament, and how the stimulus and Obamacare were of no help, then the rest of his statements would have had a lot more credibility.

He was using his wife's predicament to illustrate the larger issues to which we are all exposed-- a common literary device. Would you have preferred a "composite character?" :)

His wife is "the" issue that brought up his lament about what Obamacare would do to his wife, and his life, and his wife serves him quite well as "the literary composite character", which, to him and a lot of other people, might make his case a bit more believable, because, it's a first case encounter with Obamacare. There is no better "literary tool" than that where one is the "leading character" and "victim", and one who is looking for sympathy.

And I think you unintentionally miscast his perspective as someone else did earlier.

I didn't consider what others have to say about the doctor's intentions, and if they were making the same argument as I am, then they're very smart people. ;) I'm arguing from a perspective that perhaps others haven't analyzed a bit deeper.

A closer reading should reveal he asserts that OC will pile on more regulations and intensify existing problems.

I never denied that he's making that argument. What I'm saying is that, perhaps his lament would be different, or perhaps even non-existent, if Obamacare and/or the stimulus package had made it possible for her to get into a residency program somewhere. That is the only angle for my argument, where the doctor seems to be indicating that, Obamacare and/or the stimulus didn't help his wife and others like her. So, I'm asking if the doctor would feel differently if his wife had, in fact, found some help in Obamacare or the stimulus.

In the next quote you indicate that you have long...in fact, being among the "first," to recognize and oppose this very legislation and its destructive ramifications.

It's not just Obamacare; it's any program which is mandated or requires that, government be the "provider" of anything that people might want or need that go beyond those already mandated in the constitution, like national defense and a system of justice. Obamacare is the resurrection of Hillary-care, except this reincarnation is on steroids, but, in both cases, I was completely against them. There is absolutely no reason for those kind of programs to get government involvement or government control.

Regarding Obamacare, I’m the first one to call it a monstrosity, and a destructive force, which will destroy this country a lot faster than the current big government social programs already in full implementation

And, I still feel that way. There is nothing wrong with those remarks, and I would make them again with no hesitation.

So, you too, by your admissions oppose OC, but you're suspicious of providers who feel as you do.

Perhaps you're having a hard time understanding what I'm saying, or perhaps I'm having a hard time making myself understood by you, but, "OC" is an abomination and a monstrosity, which, if allowed to go into full implementation, or even partial, will speed up the dismantling of the U.S.

What I am suspicious of, is someone who laments the predicament of his wife, while seeming to state that, one of the problems with Obamacare is the fact that, it doesn't allow for people like his wife to find residency openings which would allow her to eventually practice medicine in the U.S. So, the question becomes, for the doctor: if "OC" or the stimulus had allowed for more residency openings in the U.S., would he be condemning them as much as he seems to be doing. He is stating "a" problem with Obamacare, and not that the whole program stinks to high heaven.

[Dysart]

Fair enough.

[jmacusa]

AH BUCK UP !!! I’M SICK OF THESE STORIES! WE”RE AMERICANS DAMN IT!!! THE ONLY THING “”DYING”” IS THIS MARXIST PUNKS CHANCES OF BEING RE-ELECTED!!! (sorry for the shouting.)

[adorno]

But you're free not engage in commerce with the Dr if you so choose, as far as I know, anyway.

That's besides the point in the argument which I'm making.

[dragnet2]

AH BUCK UP !!! I’M SICK OF THESE STORIES! WE”RE AMERICANS DAMN IT!!!

You're not paying attention.

Your government flooded the U.S. with tens of millions of illegals from Mexico, they've flooded the country with millions of foreigners who could give a squat about America, not to mention tens of hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

In fact, under Bush, after 911, more Muslims entered the U.S. than the previous two decades, during war time no less.

The U.S. Government has nearly left America dead on the floor.

You need to get out more.

[jmacusa]

MY government? And where did you get this stat on Muslim immigration, got a link for it? Are you a foreign national living here or are you being cheeky? I refuse to buy into the negativity of such stories. It isn’t me who needs to ‘’get out more’’ pal. It’s you who needs more faith in We The People.

[dragnet2]

And where did you get this stat on Muslim immigration, got a link for it? Are you a foreign national living here or are you being cheeky? I refuse to buy into the negativity of such stories.

Don't believe me. There are many other sources BTW.

In 2005, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades.

In fact, under Bush, after 911, more Muslims entered the U.S. than the previous two decades, during war time no less

[dragnet2]

MY government? Are you a foreign national living here or are you being cheeky?

Since the government no longer represents the people, refuses to secure it's own borders and makes decisions which exclude what is in the U.S. best interest, I find it difficult to describe the U.S. government, as my government.

This is not complex.

[jmacusa]

Well then I guess you’ll be packing your bags, eh?

[jmacusa]

The NY Slimes. Great resource.(sar.)

[Chickensoup]

This is about credentialed people protecting their turf. In many fields, like psychologists you cant move from one state to another without a hassle beyond belief.

All the docs I know call their degrees and licenses “Union Cards”

[dragnet2]

Well then I guess you’ll be packing your bags, eh?

What ever gave you that idea?

[dragnet2]

Since the government no longer represents the people, refuses to secure it's own borders and makes decisions which exclude what is in the U.S. best interest, I find it difficult to describe the U.S. government, as my government.

You deny this? Is this unfounded?

[jmacusa]

Because you sound like this country just doesn’t seem to be yours anymore, like it isn’t worth the effort to vote this Marxist bastard out. You sound defeatist.

[dragnet2]

Since the government no longer represents the people, refuses to secure it’s own borders and makes decisions which exclude what is in the U.S. best interest, I find it difficult to describe the U.S. government, as my government.

You deny this? Is this unfounded?

[dragnet2]

Because you sound like this country just doesn’t seem to be yours anymore

Ya think?

[jmacusa]

Try this, “Patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it’’.— Mark Twain. This current government does not warrant my support. That’s why we have elections. I’m not ready to throw in the towel on America. As to your two questions, what then shall we do? More over, what do you intend to do?