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It Was Shockingly Easy For The Batman Shooter To Buy A Massive Arsenal
Business Insider ^ | 07/21/2012 | Caroline Hedley, The Daily Telegraph

Posted on 07/21/2012 12:31:26 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Denver shooting suspect James Holmes purchased some 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet before carrying out hismassacre at a midnight screening of Batman.

The ammunition was part of a massive arsenal he gathered in the run-up to the killings, which also included four guns legally purchased at local gun shops.

His weapons were two Glock pistols, a 12-guage shotgun, and a high-powered AR-15 assault rifle fitted with a drum magazine allowing a fire rate of 50 to 60 rounds per minute.

Dan Oates, the chief of police in Aurora, Colorado, where Holmes killed 12 people and injured 58 others, said: ’He purchased four guns at local gun shops and through the internet he purchased over 6,000 rounds of ammunition, more than 3,000 rounds of 0.223 ammunition for the assault rifle, 3,000 rounds of 0.40 caliber ammunition for the two Glocks in his possession, and 300 rounds for the 12 gauge shotgun.

“Also through the internet he purchased multiple magazines for the 0.223 caliber assault rifle including one 100-round drum magazine which was recovered from the scene.

“Even if it was semi-automatic I’m told by experts that with that drum magazine he could have got off 50 to 60 rounds within a minute. As far as we know it was a pretty rapid pace of fire in the theatre.

“My understanding is that all the weapons he possessed, he possessed legally and all the clips that he possessed, he possessed legally and all the ammunition he possessed, he possessed legally.”

Holmes is also believed to have joined a casual sex website where he apparently hinted at his plans for his killing spree, asking potential suitors: “Will you visit me in prison?”

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: ammo; banglist; batman; colorado; guncontrol; shooting
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To: IMR 4350

Some deranged killers might get off on the planning part. The Zodiac killer planned his deeds in a way that he never was caught. As for the body armour and planned shootout with police, when given the opportunity, the maniac threw his hands in the air and gave up. I would guess the costume was more for effect than to be used.


101 posted on 07/21/2012 2:57:01 PM PDT by gusty
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To: x

Right you are. He had several options that would get the equipment he had.


102 posted on 07/21/2012 3:02:32 PM PDT by SUSSA
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103 posted on 07/21/2012 3:12:08 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: gusty

Okay, point well taken, Gusty. I would add, as many others have speculated, that the maniac could have purchased all of the equipment using a credit card (not a very “massive arsenal!”). Fireworks are easy to obtain in Wyoming.

What still troubles me, though, are the pyrotchnics and/or explosives which were rigged in his apartment. That setup has been repeatedly described by sources as being “sophisticated.” Also, the killer’s method of egress into the theater remains unexplained. An emergency exit door would be fitted with an alarm mechanism.


104 posted on 07/21/2012 3:18:03 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

Who says he paid for it? If he ordered by credit card knowing what he was going to do, how’re the card companies going to collect?

.....I suspect some might be maxing out some Amex cards and maybe a MC or two. On the otherhand I would be interested how Mommy and Daddy kept up with the allowance.


105 posted on 07/21/2012 3:24:45 PM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: Steamburg
What about the incendiary devices, explosives, aerial bombs, improvised pyrotechnics, etc. the police claim to have found in his apartment.

I was wondering about that too. Granted, the media folks wouldn't know a mortar bomb from a dildo, but I'm still having trouble believing that a med student would even know how to lay hands on that stuff let alone rig booby traps so complex that the police were flummoxed for hours by it.

106 posted on 07/21/2012 3:25:42 PM PDT by hitkicker (The only thing worse than a politician is a child molester)
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To: gusty
Sometimes the simplest explanations are the correct ones. Here an evil maniac opened fire in a crowded movie theatre for the reason only the maniac knows. No conspiracies, no paramilitary training, no politics involved.

And sometimes they're not. Yours is every bit as much conjecture as the guys saying he was the latest in a string of Monarch Programmed disposables.

107 posted on 07/21/2012 3:31:36 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: Steamburg

“... return fire could have had a dramatic effect even if it failed to completely stop him. ...

In addition, train with those problems in mind. There are targets beyond center of mass. Never reinforce failure if your first rounds don’t perform as expected. Enough said.”

This reminds me that having read a lot of issues of The Ayoub Files, I was initially a little surprised about how many shootings result in hits on the arms and hands. And that those hits on the arms and hands often disable the shooter.

But if you think about it a bit, you’ll notice that the with most rifle and pistol holds, the forearm(s) block a good portion of the chest, so just going for a center of mass shot often ends up hitting the forearms or hands.

Heck, in the FBI Miami shoot out, one cop was hit in the hand and another in the forearm. The cop that was hit on his strong hand had never been trained on how to reload with just his weak hand which left him vulnerable and the perp walked up to him and delivered a coup de gras to the head.

The other cop that was hit in the forearm with a .223 and said that when he looked at his left arm, it looked like the meat had been peeled back from the bone like the skin of a banana. This took him out of most of the fight, but he got back in at the end by operating his shotgun one-handed.

It amazing common to see arm and hand and even hits on the gun itself that disables the gun and stops the fight.


108 posted on 07/21/2012 3:32:55 PM PDT by RatSlayer
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To: SeekAndFind

Can somebody tell me how many weapons constitute an arsenal?

Apparently four qualifies. How about three? Two maybe? One?


109 posted on 07/21/2012 3:40:02 PM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: Islander7

Not to mention that the guy just magically became proficient with an AR 15, a shotgun and a semi auto handgun to the point that he could walk into a high stress situation and perform like a pro. Not in a million years and we all know it.

There are also reports that the bodies are being removed to the morgue before forensics can be done so that they don’t have to be bothered with matching up pesky things like bullet fragments that may not match.

Supposedly there is one military person missing in action from the theatre last night. They have no idea where he is. Hmmmmm!


110 posted on 07/21/2012 3:41:02 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/crystal_lake/chi-crystal-lake-man-died-in-colorado-shooting-20120721,0,2675469.story


111 posted on 07/21/2012 3:46:52 PM PDT by wxgesr (I want to be the first person to surf on another planet.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Indeed, Only a Navy SEAL could possibly make a shot like hitting someone in the face from five feet away - and if you miss, what happens is you hit someone ELSE in the face, because it’s so crowded.


112 posted on 07/21/2012 3:50:23 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: FlingWingFlyer
"“You have the right person.” - Mom Holmes"

A question or a statement?

113 posted on 07/21/2012 4:21:08 PM PDT by the_daug
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To: BIGLOOK

Say 2 - 3k for the guns; a similar amount for ammo. I’m assuming he didn’t haggle or price shop too hard. Maybe he ran off with his tuition money.


114 posted on 07/21/2012 4:37:01 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: hitkicker

I’m still having trouble believing that a med student would even know how to lay hands on that stuff let alone rig booby traps so complex that the police were flummoxed for hours by it.


Oh, my yes, thank you for the reminder, we should ban the Internets [sic] too! All that information just out there waiting for a sick mind and legal too.


115 posted on 07/21/2012 4:38:19 PM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine; mylife
Several of us have figured most of the cost and the LEOs have discovered the supply routes, the vendors already. He didn't buy the weapons from the trunk of a gun runner's car for which he'd have to pay cash which he'd never have. His tuition money? Either his parents covered it or he had a student loan (which all of us covered) so that money went to the university and not to him directly. But a graduate student with a credit card or two could have easily run up a bill of $5 or 10k without notice....and with no intentions to repay it.

The real kicker to the taxpayers and parents is yet to come; his defense, court costs, shrinks will cost a fortune all for a punk kid who most likely wanted to prove that evil prevails after all.
116 posted on 07/21/2012 5:35:25 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Hold.....hold......hold.......)
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To: Islander7

Two words: Credit card.

You should see the offfers my children get in the mail. Fortunatly they are smart enough to throw them out. and the one who is not that smart? I throw them out.


117 posted on 07/21/2012 6:30:33 PM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: SeekAndFind

The problem isn’t the easy access to ammunition.

The problem is a society that has lost God.


118 posted on 07/21/2012 6:59:48 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
Everything points to this all being deliberately done to point to this event as a reason for confiscation. And, the media is going to allow it to happen because they won't do their jobs.

You're wrong there. There is not going to be any confiscation. This sort of crap has happened before and the people have kept their guns.

119 posted on 07/21/2012 7:10:39 PM PDT by OldPossum ( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)
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To: OldPossum

RE: You’re wrong there. There is not going to be any confiscation.
I’m 38 now, every person younger than me that is not an idiot knows. I’m ashamed of my hippy parents but proud of mine and the next.


120 posted on 07/21/2012 7:22:15 PM PDT by Dosa26
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To: SUSSA

I’m rather assuming he was decked out like those LA shooters from a few years back. They gun down quite a few cops while under fire from said cops taking the hits and keeping on going. Of course I don’t have any real details, but he seemed to really have it planned out well.


121 posted on 07/21/2012 8:21:37 PM PDT by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: Dosa26

I do not understand your post as written. Are you saying that there will be confiscation of firearms? I think it’s conceivable that such could happen in your lifetime given your age, but for now, I don’t think so. The politics, as I seem them, would not allow it.

I refer to the recent Supreme Court decision, for one thing. The massive buys of firearms and ammunition by the American public over the last few years also indicate huge resistance to such a move.

But, again, I think that your generation may well see such a travesty of constitutional rights. And it won’t be restricted to Second Amendment rights. All societies, I suspect, turn to tyranny over time.

All this make me glad to not be a part of your age group. I’ll be gone by the time your freedoms are revoked. Since I have no children—and therefore, no grandchildren—I don’t have to worry about them. But I do, for what it’s worth, feel sorry for what you and yours will endure.


122 posted on 07/21/2012 8:22:04 PM PDT by OldPossum ( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)
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To: drbuzzard

It does seem well planned. And the drugs would make blunt force trauma easier to ignore if somebody did get a shot at him.


123 posted on 07/21/2012 8:39:05 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: BIGLOOK

Excellent point re the cost, and who paid for the guns, body armor and other gear?

The cost would probably be about 3K.


124 posted on 07/22/2012 11:14:14 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS DESTROYING AMERICA-LOOK AT WHAT IT DID TO THE WHITE HOUSE!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Holmes is also believed to have joined a casual sex website where he apparently hinted at his plans for his killing spree, asking potential suitors: “Will you visit me in prison?”

Gay or whatever sex?


125 posted on 07/22/2012 11:16:31 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS DESTROYING AMERICA-LOOK AT WHAT IT DID TO THE WHITE HOUSE!)
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s shockingly easy to get child porn on the Internet, but you don’t see the lefties up in arms about that.


126 posted on 07/22/2012 11:16:53 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: ChocChipCookie
I’m not accepting this story at face value. There are too many oddities.

I want to know when the last time he went to a government shrink. That seems to be the common factor behind these types of things.

127 posted on 07/22/2012 1:18:58 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: Islander7
AR-15s ain't cheap.

Not 'til ya slap a Korean beta-mag onto 'em.

128 posted on 07/22/2012 1:25:11 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Islander7
AR-15s ain't cheap.

Not 'til ya slap a Korean beta-mag onto 'em.

129 posted on 07/22/2012 1:25:18 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: UCANSEE2
That 'employee' has not been identified. (Clue: He wasn't even an employee. He was part of the 'team' of handlers)

Do you know where you've seen this? It is exactlythis type of information that will be scrubbed during the next few days.

130 posted on 07/22/2012 11:31:16 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: gusty
Your first observation is right on, however for your second, consider the possibility the perp had no intention in paying off his credit card debt. His simple plan was to stiff the credit card company. If someone was planning on no future, imagine how much they could purchase with a credit card.

Consider the computational power put in place in the major credit card's anti-fraud software. If you think this wouldn't set of major bells and whistles to FedGov you haven't been paying attention.

131 posted on 07/22/2012 11:33:24 PM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: zeugma
I've bought more guns, for more money, in a shorter period of time than this guy did, and I always use a CC. Once bought an M16A1 and a registered AUG trigger pack on the same day, by CC. Total for both back then was around $20K.

Never heard anything from anybody.

132 posted on 07/22/2012 11:49:35 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: zeugma
Do you know where you've seen this? It is exactlythis type of information that will be scrubbed during the next few days.

As well it should. That 'was' a rumor I picked up early in the news, and it has not been proven in any way.

Question: How did he get back in ?

133 posted on 07/23/2012 2:35:45 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: the_daug; FlingWingFlyer
"“You have the right person.” - Mom Holmes"

Being open minded, I would be more likely to conclude that she was just confirming that the JAMES HOLMES they called about was her son. They may have asked her if the James Holmes who lived at 'xxx apartment number' was her son.

Does anyone have the QUESTION that she was responding to? It would seem some context would be important. Funny how that is being left out.

134 posted on 07/23/2012 2:41:39 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: jjotto
through the internet he purchased over 6,000 rounds of ammunition, more than 3,000 rounds of 0.223 ammunition for the assault rifle, 3,000 rounds of 0.40 caliber ammunition for the two Glocks in his possession, and 300 rounds for the 12 gauge shotgun.

Hee hee! My standard response to the MSM's idea of an "arsenal" is "what a slacker"!

135 posted on 07/23/2012 2:48:35 PM PDT by 6ppc (It's torch and pitchfork time)
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To: SeekAndFind
Ignorant and emotional articles like this screed above make my teeth hurt.

Holmes never used the Beta c-mag he supposedly had. One of the 30-round mags he had jammed and he reportedly used the pistols and shotgun. There is a picture of the AR laying outside theater 9's door with a standard 30-rounder in the magwell.

The full auto cyclic rate of the Stoner AR platform is between 500-900 RPM depending on Generation, barrel length, etc... 50-60 a minute is one trigger pull per second. There is nothing magically or particularly sinister about a Beta c-mag that makes your average mouse gun any more "lethal" than it is right out of the box.

Stupid hyperbole spouted by agitprop vomiting ideologues...

136 posted on 07/23/2012 2:51:34 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: 6ppc

Do these morons not understand he could have just as easily went to a walmart once every few weeks and done the same thing?

The level of idiocy in the media is insane.


137 posted on 07/23/2012 2:52:38 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: 6ppc

Do these morons not understand he could have just as easily went to a walmart once every few weeks and done the same thing?

The level of idiocy in the media is insane.


138 posted on 07/23/2012 2:52:48 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: combat_boots
Rush him? Screw that. Two to the Center, one to the Head.

Concealed means concealed and I'd rather be asked to leave the theater than be in the dark with a group of strangers without my sidearm...

139 posted on 07/23/2012 2:55:28 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: drbuzzard

He was wearing riot gear. Standard pistol rounds would have done him in... All you’d see if some guy tacticooled out in a helmet. Shoot him anyway. Get his head down and you save lives.

Besides, better to take your shot and die for it than run off and be shot in the back.


140 posted on 07/23/2012 2:58:42 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Massive arsenal my ass.


141 posted on 07/23/2012 2:59:01 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Bryanw92

I, also, usta didn’t have that much, too!


142 posted on 07/23/2012 3:00:07 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Islander7

It’s a matter of what income or credit, or grant, is available AND the decision that the heinous plan comes before all else. I have a credit card for which there isn’t a dollar limit - none. I’ve asked before about if I could buy a $50,000 car with it. Word back was “Sure!”.....

It isn’t the buying, it’s the personal decision about the financial repercussions thereafter. My assessment is this fruitcake wasn’t thinking about it. You don’t have to pay back sh!t if you’re in jail - or dead.


143 posted on 07/23/2012 3:04:02 PM PDT by Gaffer
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